Node Color Space and Gamma work wrong in ACES

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Anton Meleshkevich

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Node Color Space and Gamma work wrong in ACES

PostSun May 26, 2019 6:32 am

When working in ACES, only plugins respect Timeline color space, but not a node color space and gamma. It transform not from ACEScc(t) to selected color space and gamma, but from rec709 gamma 2.4 instead.

I recorded a screencast showing this.

Last edited by Anton Meleshkevich on Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Node Color Space and Gamma work WRONG in ACES

PostSun May 26, 2019 4:21 pm

Can you explain better? On my phone I cannot make out what you're doing.
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Anton Meleshkevich

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Re: Node Color Space and Gamma work WRONG in ACES

PostMon May 27, 2019 12:46 am

waltervolpatto wrote:Can you explain better? On my phone I cannot make out what you're doing.

Usually, when working in DaVinci YRGB or DaVinci YRGB Color Managed, changing node color space and node gamma go from timeline color space.
For example, If I set timeline color space to AWG LogC and then set node color space to Rec709 and node gamma to Linear, I get transform from AWG LogC to Rec709 Linear at the input of the node and transform from Rec709 Linear back to AWG LogC at the output of the node.
If I change timeline color space to S-Gamut3.Cine Slog3 and then set node color space to V-Gamut and node gamma to V-log, I get transform from S-Gamut3.Cine Slog3 to V-Gamut V-log at the input of the node and transform from V-Gamut V-log back to S-Gamut3.Cine Slog3 at the output of the node. And so on.
Everything ok with that and it works as it should.

When I change Color Science to ACES I got ACEScc(t) timeline color space. Everything fine with that too.
If I load any Resolve built-in plugin, which has ability to choose color space (CST, Gamut Mapping, Chromatic Adaptation) and set "use timeline", all the plugins recognize timeline color space as ACEScc(t). Still everything ok and it works as it should.

But all node color space transforms go based on rec709 gamma 2.4 color space instead of ACEScc(t) color space as it should.
For example, If now I set node color space to RWG and node gamma to redlog3g10, I get transform from Rec709 Gamma 2.4 (instead of ACEScc(t)) to RWG redlog3g10 at the input of the node and transform from RWG redlog3g10 back to Rec709 Gamma 2.4 (instead of ACEScc(t)) at the output of the node.
But transforming from and to rec709 gamma 2.4 has no sense since our timeline color space is set by ACES Color Science and fixed to ACEScc(t).
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waltervolpatto

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Re: Node Color Space and Gamma work wrong in ACES

PostMon May 27, 2019 4:01 am

Got it. Looks like a bug.

Thanks for the explanation.
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Re: Node Color Space and Gamma work wrong in ACES

PostMon May 27, 2019 10:11 pm

I reported issues with ACES months ago. Still hasn’t gotten resolved.


viewtopic.php?f=21&t=84567
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Re: Node Color Space and Gamma work wrong in ACES

PostMon Jun 03, 2019 7:04 am

Working just with the P4K, I changed to ACES on a recommendation from a Moviola video, for better color management across different software. But that led me to random hyper-saturations that never occurred when using Resolve managed color space. Hot pink w/ACES, vibrant red (true color) w/Resolve managed. I switched back.
At least within the Blackmagic product world, I'd stick with Resolve Managed for now, as I don't have to export to another brand of software. Hopefully, the "agnostic" color space will be corrected in Resolve...
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Anton Meleshkevich

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Re: Node Color Space and Gamma work wrong in ACES

PostThu Jun 20, 2019 1:21 am

Anton Meleshkevich wrote:When working in ACES, only plugins respect Timeline color space, but not a node color space and gamma. It transform not from ACEScc(t) to selected color space and gamma, but from rec709 gamma 2.4 instead.

I recorded a screencast showing this.



Still isn't fixed.
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Anton Meleshkevich

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Re: Node Color Space and Gamma work wrong in ACES

PostFri Jul 05, 2019 10:14 am

Still isn't fixed in beta 5.
Please fix it. This is not edit page bug or fusion page bug. This is a bug with color grading tool in color grading app.
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Re: Node Color Space and Gamma work wrong in ACES

PostFri Jul 05, 2019 11:24 am

ACES implementation seems to be funky in almost every aspect there is except basic grading, can anyone from BMD side confirm that ACES as color managment system is actually tested when new versions are released? Is it working as planned and users should get used to this functionality or are these confirmed mishaps that will be worked on and fixed?
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Re: Node Color Space and Gamma work wrong in ACES

PostSat Jul 06, 2019 12:42 am

Hendrik Proosa wrote:ACES implementation seems to be funky in almost every aspect there is except basic grading, can anyone from BMD side confirm that ACES as color managment system is actually tested when new versions are released? Is it working as planned and users should get used to this functionality or are these confirmed mishaps that will be worked on and fixed?


I agree. With beta 4 alpha layers were fixed for the most part (some slight almost chromatic aberration like artifacts still visible, but tolerable for me). But CST Saturation Limiter is now messed up and turns blue into magenta... :roll:
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Anton Meleshkevich

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Re: Node Color Space and Gamma work wrong in ACES

PostMon Jul 08, 2019 3:19 pm

deezid wrote:
Hendrik Proosa wrote:CST Saturation Limiter is now messed up and turns blue into magenta... :roll:

Same thing with Gamut Mapper Plugin in ACES
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Re: Node Color Space and Gamma work wrong in ACES

PostMon Jul 08, 2019 10:09 pm

Anton Meleshkevich wrote:
deezid wrote:
Hendrik Proosa wrote:CST Saturation Limiter is now messed up and turns blue into magenta... :roll:

Same thing with Gamut Mapper Plugin in ACES


Noticed. Seems to do exactly the same - errors included. :roll:
Since I switched to the Pocket 4K ACES hasn't been an option anyway, since the IDT is pretty... "funky"
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Re: Node Color Space and Gamma work wrong in ACES

PostFri Jul 19, 2019 8:20 pm

+1
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Anton Meleshkevich

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Re: Node Color Space and Gamma work wrong in ACES

PostMon Aug 12, 2019 8:12 pm

v16.1 beta
The bug is still here!

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