The trim tools

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Allen24

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The trim tools

PostWed Jan 22, 2020 6:44 pm

Love Resolve...but...the trim tools in Premiere Pro are better and way less confusing.
Perhaps you could check them out and change your trimming tools to be more like those found in Premiere?
In Resolve I'm always guessing which trim tool does what.
Another incredible thing found in Premiere... if I want to move one clip into another spot on the timeline,
I just drag it into the record window (onto the insert button) and it puts that clip where ever my playhead is located. Most people don't even know about that wonderful feature. Perhaps you could consider something like that.
Thank you!
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waltervolpatto

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Re: The trim tools

PostWed Jan 22, 2020 8:43 pm

I just drag it into the record window (onto the insert button) and it puts that clip where ever my playhead is located. Most people don't even know about that wonderful feature. Perhaps you could consider something like that


I don't get it: if you drag a clip to the timeline viewer (in resolve) you get multiple options for cutting:
insert
overlay
replace
fit to fill
place on top
append at the end
ripple overwrite.

which function is missing in your experience?
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Allen24

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Re: The trim tools

PostWed Jan 22, 2020 11:49 pm

I'm new to this forum so my reply may not have gone through.
You're misunderstanding me. I'm not talking about dragging from the source window to the record window...I'm talking about dragging from the timeline into the record window.
For example...in Premiere, lets say I have 25 clips on my timeline. And suddenly I want clip number 22 to be infront of clip 4. Well, as long as my playhead is infront of clip four...I take clip number 22 and drag it up into the record window and like magic...it will be moved to infront of clip 4.
If you have Premiere, try it...its an amazing feature.
And yes, you can get used to the trim tools in Resolve, but they're not terribly intuitive. In Premiere, they just make sense.
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Brad Hurley

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Re: The trim tools

PostWed Jan 22, 2020 11:57 pm

waltervolpatto wrote:I don't get it: if you drag a clip to the timeline viewer (in resolve) you get multiple options for cutting:
insert
overlay
replace
fit to fill
place on top
append at the end
ripple overwrite.


In this case the OP is talking about moving a clip that's already in the timeline to another location on the timeline. In Resolve this is accomplished by simply cut and paste (hit control-x on Windows or command-x on Mac to cut the clip and then when you type control-v the clip will be pasted at the location of the playhead). There's also the paste insert (control-shift-v on Windows, command-shift-v on Mac, which inserts the clip and ripples everything to the right. You can also copy-paste clips to other tracks; instructions are in the manual.

As for trimming, I think the one that confuses most people is the Dynamic Trim mode. It's definitely confusing at first, but again with practice the trimming tools become second nature.
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Jim Simon

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Re: The trim tools

PostThu Jan 23, 2020 4:22 pm

I think Trimming in Resolve is actually better. My hope is that BMD won't "make it more like Premeire Pro."
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kinvermark

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Re: The trim tools

PostThu Jan 23, 2020 4:41 pm

+1. Not interested in turning Resolve into the rent-free version of Premiere.
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Allen24

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Re: The trim tools

PostThu Jan 23, 2020 6:16 pm

In case you haven’t noticed, Premier Pro is the number one editing system used by more people in the world then any other system… There’s a reason for that. Yes some people are jumping ship, but certainly not enough. Resolve is about 80% there… And it certainly has the potential of being better than Premier Pro, and in some ways it already is. But there’s just too many convoluted things going on that need to be fixed. A few simple examples… Force rendering on the timeline should be so simple and so necessary… Hard to imagine it’s not simple. If it even works at all. Here’s another simple fix they need to work on… If you copy something on the cut page… And try to paste it into the edit page… It doesn’t work. Really? Has anyone noticed you can’t bring in a PSD from photoshop? I mean you can bring it in, but then it just doesn’t know what to do with it. These are just a few of the things that blackmagic needs to work on. I do believe it will get there… And I think within another year or so it will be a much better program then Premiere.
Oh, one more thing… There are some codecs that will just not work in resolve that easily work in premiere Pro. And please don’t get the impression I’m knocking Resolve. For the short time they’ve been trying to develop it, it’s miraculous. And I do believe it will be better soon enough.
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kinvermark

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Re: The trim tools

PostThu Jan 23, 2020 7:01 pm

Making Resolve better is one thing; making it function like Premiere is quite another. All, NLE's can learn a trick or two from their competitors, but IMO it is a fundamental mistake to "chase" features from a competitor. Far better to play to your own strengths.

I think your point of view is somewhat tainted by having great familiarity and comfort with Premiere that you don't yet have with Resolve. Take some time to get to know it. Case in point: "force rendering" in/out would perhaps be nice to have, but as I explained in another thread, Resolve does have quite complex automatic caching that 99% of the time works really well. It also has "user" caching and you can "force render" , just not quite as easily as PPRO.

Also, keep in mind there is a very long list of feature requests, many of which are quite critical, and have been waited for by the existing user base for a long time!
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Jim Simon

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Re: The trim tools

PostThu Jan 23, 2020 8:56 pm

Allen24 wrote:Premier Pro is the number one editing system used by more people in the world than any other system… There’s a reason for that.


Sure. It's called Marketing, and it has nothing to do with product superiority.

Nike is proof enough of that.
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Allen24

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Re: The trim tools

PostThu Jan 23, 2020 9:46 pm

Sure. It's called Marketing, and it has nothing to do with product superiority.

Really? You mean the Cohen brothers (you know, little things like “no country for old men“) and Walter Murch (apocalypse now)... they all jumped on the bandwagon because of marketing?! Only uneducated people fall for marketing. We’re not talking about shoes here, we’re talking about an editing system that allows us to make a living. Or at least for me it does. I make a great living using Premier Pro and after effects. I’m hoping to switch over to Resolve. In time. It’s not quite ready for prime time yet. But it’s getting closer by the day.
Apple does better marketing than anybody… And their editing system, Final Cut x, is complete crap. Gee...
Why wasn’t I fooled by their marketing?
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Jim Simon

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Re: The trim tools

PostThu Jan 23, 2020 10:00 pm

You want what you want, I get that.

But I don't find your arguments convincing.

I'm hoping BMD doesn't either.
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Allen24

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Re: The trim tools

PostThu Jan 23, 2020 11:28 pm

If you ever get to Las Vegas, hit me up… We can be in the same room with Premier Pro and Resolve And then we can have a true debate about the features... meanwhile, good luck to you.
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kinvermark

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Re: The trim tools

PostThu Jan 23, 2020 11:48 pm

Realistically, the likelihood that Resolve becomes a Prem. Pro clone is ZERO. So no worries there.

Hopefully, the best ideas from other NLE's will get adopted though - given sufficient time.

I still want Adobe style media "user sort order" that'd be nice. :)
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Jim Simon

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Re: The trim tools

PostFri Jan 24, 2020 6:53 pm

Allen24 wrote:then we can have a true debate about the features.


That would be interesting.
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Jason Conrad

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Re: The trim tools

PostSat Feb 01, 2020 7:20 pm

Resolve is way better at cramming a bunch of functionality into a few tools. Basically, do you want your timeline to ripple? Then use the trim tool (T). If not, use the normal selection mode (A). That's all there is to it. Everything else is done based on the context of where you click. Even rate stretching respects the ripple difference between A and T.

The blade tool is useful for when you want to insert a lot of thru edits really quickly, and don't care too much about their precise placement. But I normally use the cmd/ctrl-b shortcut instead.
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deanphillips1991

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Re: The trim tools

PostThu Feb 06, 2020 2:59 am

Couldn't disagree with this more. I use both heavily and DR crushes PP for trim tools.

The only feature I do miss is dragging a clip over another clip and having transitions/effects etc stay put and placed on the new clip.

None of the drag over view options do this well, and they're more confusing
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GaretSD

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Re: The trim tools

PostThu Feb 06, 2020 8:42 am

I personnally think Resolve does a better job as Trimming. The way it ripples nicely and how you can control each "layer" in the timeline is more pleasent than Premiere.

Sure Premiere does a lot of things better than Resolve but editing feels easier and yes, the goals of Resolve is not to make a free/cheap version of Premiere !
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Allen24

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Re: The trim tools

PostThu Feb 06, 2020 5:43 pm

Really? Grant Petty might disagree with you. I’m sure he would be thrilled to have every premiere Pro editor switch over to Resolve… That would be a dream come true. basically what they’ve done is they’ve taken bits and pieces of Premier Pro and final cut X and mashed them up into something of their own. It’s a great idea and it almost works. I think it will work in the near future. Like I have said in other posts, Resolve is just a little convoluted at this point. Too many steps to do the simplest things. And somethings it just doesn’t work at all. But I know they are listening to people and they are trying very hard, unlike Premier Pro where they don’t try at all because they think they’re king of the hill.
An example of convoluted is this; put a shadow on one element, and then try copying and pasting that same shadow onto another layer. Yes it can be done… But the way it can be done is just not as simple as it should be. Just one example of many!
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kinvermark

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Re: The trim tools

PostThu Feb 06, 2020 8:50 pm

You are making a case that suits you - fair enough - but realistically, it is quite a big deal for a pro to switch NLE's so nobody expects a mass exodus from Premiere. Simply being a cheap PPro clone isn't going to do it.

Let's not fix what isn't broken - the trim tools are fine.
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Allen24

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Re: The trim tools

PostThu Feb 06, 2020 9:14 pm

Or… We could simply fix what is broken. As an example - force rendering on the timeline never works… Certainly doesn’t work for me and I’ve tried every scenario that the manuals have told me to try. That’s a dealbreaker. I will stay with Premier Pro until Resolve takes another step or two.
I don’t understand your fear of Premier Pro… But whatever suits you.
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kinvermark

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Re: The trim tools

PostFri Feb 07, 2020 2:08 am

As an example - force rendering on the timeline never works…


This is a tech support issue / bug that you have mentioned several times but AFAIK never followed up on.

Here is an easy way to "force render cache" from Dave Dugdale:


(Short version - highlight clips and hit hotkey to render cache them. Easy, straightforward and materially the same as Ppro.)


I don’t understand your fear of Premier Pro… But whatever suits you.


You are wandering into "personal remark" territory here. Let's just talk about the software, please.
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Allen24

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Re: The trim tools

PostFri Feb 07, 2020 2:46 am

I’ve tried his solution… And thank you for sending. I think if you have a clip that won’t play because of the codec...Then his method works. But I’m talking about something much more difficult. I’m taking a sapphire plug-in and placing it on a clip. Then I go through the exact same steps and it makes no difference whatsoever. So I guess that’s a much more difficult thing for resolve to work through as opposed to just a codec that won’t play.

And as far as personal goes… You said to me that I’m only interested in what “suits me” so I just threw it back to you. It was intended to be funny.

But I truly appreciate you sending me that video… It will work on some things but the sapphire plug-ins, I guess, are just too much for Resolve to handle. Premiere Pro handles it with ease. And if premier can do it… Then the blackMagic engineers can certainly make Resolve do it.
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Peter Cave

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Re: The trim tools

PostFri Feb 07, 2020 2:58 am

Plug-in caching on the Edit page has a bug. If you apply OFX plug-ins on the Colour Page they should render ok.
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Allen24

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Re: The trim tools

PostFri Feb 07, 2020 5:23 am

Didn't know you could apply 3rd party plug-ins on the color page...I will give that a try.
And thank you.
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Allen24

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Re: The trim tools

PostFri Feb 07, 2020 5:33 am

Wow...it worked. You were the ONLY guy who figured this out! Thank you.
They need to fix this and soon...and it stills doesn't hold the render as well as Premiere does...but it works!
I normally do all effects work in After Effects... but this helps.
Thanks again genius boy!
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Trensharo

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Re: The trim tools

PostSun Feb 09, 2020 11:21 pm

kinvermark wrote:You are making a case that suits you - fair enough - but realistically, it is quite a big deal for a pro to switch NLE's so nobody expects a mass exodus from Premiere. Simply being a cheap PPro clone isn't going to do it.

Let's not fix what isn't broken - the trim tools are fine.

That’s all anyone does here, pretty much without exception...
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Peter Cave

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Re: The trim tools

PostMon Feb 10, 2020 2:49 am

Allen24 wrote:Wow...it worked. You were the ONLY guy who figured this out! Thank you.
They need to fix this and soon...and it stills doesn't hold the render as well as Premiere does...but it works!
I normally do all effects work in After Effects... but this helps.
Thanks again genius boy!


Genius "old man" in my case! I put in a bug report with BMD some time ago regarding this. It has not been addressed yet.
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Allen24

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Re: The trim tools

PostMon Feb 10, 2020 3:12 am

We’re supposed to gain wisdom as we age… So being old can be a good thing.
But it’s things like this that keeps many people from switching over completely to Resolve from Premier Pro.
Resolve has so much potential… And it’s more fun, But Premier Pro just works. Maybe by Resolve 17 it will be good enough to become our main editor.
We don’t need more things in Resolve...They just need to make the things They already have work better and easier.
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Kenzo

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Re: The trim tools

PostMon Feb 10, 2020 10:25 am

Allen24 wrote:if I want to move one clip into another spot on the timeline,
I just drag it into the record window (onto the insert button) and it puts that clip where ever my playhead is located.

You can't drag to record window from timeline, but you can Ctrl+Shift drag clip on timeline.
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JeffreyWalther

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Re: The trim tools

PostMon Feb 10, 2020 3:02 pm

Allen24, you're really getting on my nerves.
Why not stay at Adobe and let everyone else enjoy the power of Resolve?

In Resolve, I can edit music videos and feature films in 25% of the time it took me at Premiere. Resolve has a better organized GUI and the tools help to increase edit speed.

Premiere sucks. After Effects sucks, all the Adobe CC tools suck because the company is more interested in making money than developing flawless tools. Crashes over crashes. Take a look at the industry, check out the forums. Many, many people are leaving the sinking ship. They switch to Affinity for photos and to Blackmagic for video editing. And no, Premiere is NOT number one. But Resolve is in the process of becoming it.

You've obviously fallen for the marketing buzz. So is RED. Because in Hollywood, RED has very little meaning in camera tech. You don't believe me? Look at IMDB and the technical infos of the blockbusters. There it is usually always the same, special camera. But not RED.

I'm glad that Resolve has become so powerful in just a few years and I've been using it for 2 years (I had used Adobe for 20 years before).
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waltervolpatto

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Re: The trim tools

PostMon Feb 10, 2020 4:45 pm

off topic.

while RED had a bad buzz (and some questionable SDKs) through the years, it is now a perfectly usable camera.....

look at "hustlers" and "midway", both shot with the DXL2 camera...
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Allen24

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Re: The trim tools

PostMon Feb 10, 2020 6:29 pm

Getting on your nerves? Sometimes the truth makes people nervous. Some people are so blindly devoted to what they are devoted to… That they can’t see the forest through the trees. If you don’t like what I have to say, the solution is simply don’t read me.
And if there was the slightest glimmer that what you’re saying had some validity… Soon as you said “after effects sucks“, then we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are clueless. After effects has no peer when it comes to graphic design. It is superior to every program in the world when it comes to that feature.
And one last comment, just because you seem to misunderstand so much, I was never knocking Resolve, I was encouraging blackmagic to make it the best program it possibly can.
And every company in the world is in it for the money. It’s great when they love their product also, but money does make the world go round. Now I hope that didn’t make you too nervous.
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JeffreyWalther

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Re: The trim tools

PostMon Feb 10, 2020 7:02 pm

Allen24 wrote:... then we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are clueless....


Now you have indeed made a faux pas: While my post is based on my 20 years of experience and public information on the net, here you start to insult me. Whether I'm clueless or not, you can't tell from your desk.
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Peter Cave

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Re: The trim tools

PostTue Feb 11, 2020 12:01 am

I'm not sure a personal argument is good for this topic.

I have used Premiere, Avid, Lightworks, Media 100, Quantel, Sony linear digital tape suites etc. over a 40 year career editing & compositing. I have done quite a lot of trimming in that time. My favourite toolset for trimming was Lightworks. All those systems differ a lot in how you approach trim functions.

I agree with only ONE thing: I think that the best ideas & methods should be "borrowed" from other software. As a feature request I have no issues with improving the trim tools. Making them like Premiere may not be the best way forward as I believe they are also far from perfect.

I don't use Resolve for editing for a number of reasons but the way the trim tools work is NOT one of them. I just adapt to whatever software is in front of me. 40 years of editing has taught me that waiting for the right software with the right features is a waste of time & energy. Presently they ALL suck badly. The last editing software that had a good balance of power & ease of use was FCP7, but that was Mac only, and Apple took FCPX on a development journey that most editors hated. I also hate it, but for my purposes it's the best & most modern editing software available. I think it could be improved immensely in the trimming dept but Apple don't respond to feature requests like BMD do.

Let's be thankful that BMD ARE listening & trying their best to provide a fluid user experience.

Allen24, maybe you should describe the changes to the trim tools that you would like to see. You have not clearly explained why you prefer them. A lot of people have no experience with Premiere & will not understand why you seek a change.
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Allen24

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Re: The trim tools

PostTue Feb 11, 2020 1:29 am

You make some excellent points… I started out my career cutting 16mm film with a pair of scissors. From there I went tape to tape… Which could be a nightmare. Then when Avid first came onto the scene… I liked it because i didn’t know better. Then of course came Final Cut7, which was just a wonderful tool. And yes not to get into details but I hate final cut X. Every year I’ve given it a try… And that you have to scan through thumbnails makes me crazy. I think it’s an abomination.
And then came Premier. And it just worked, and for a while it worked flawlessly. So I grew very accustomed to that. And then Premier got more wacky… Several people said why don’t you try Resolve... And I did.
But then enough of my boring life history. I do like your challenge, trying to explain why I like the trim tools in premiere better than Resolve. Let me give that some thought before just blurting out some answer. I do know that if I want to move just one or two frames in premier it seems ultimately easier than it is in resolve. But then that could just be what I’m used to. I’m incredibly fast in premiere but that’s because I’ve been on it for years and years.
I would love to hear your reasoning why you don’t use resolve as your main editing program.
What I’ve been doing lately is I will cut a commercial in Premier, then re-cut the same commercial in Resolve and try to experience the differences between the two programs. At this point, for me, it seems like I have to do many less keystrokes to perform the same operation in premiere.
If I can get more specific I will in the near future.
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Derek Howard

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Re: The trim tools

PostWed Feb 12, 2020 7:10 pm

I edited on Premiere for years and fully switched to Resolve about a year ago. Personally I find it faster and more intuitive, but only when I embraced it for what it was without wanting it to be a cheaper, more stable version of Premiere. The same with Fusion and After Effects.

The biggest trick with learning new software is to get past the hurdle of frustration at being slower than you are used to being to perform a task on the new program versus the old. That speed only comes back with practice and experience.

I'm not saying Resolve can't improve (personally I'm really hoping that version 17 really focuses strongly on streamlining and better integration between all the tabs) but Blackmagic seems focused on trying to improve the workflow of things, without only settling for emulating what other programs have done in the past.

But all this comes down to preference. The best software is the one you feel the most comfortable with and you feel can do the best job.
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Allen24

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Re: The trim tools

PostWed Feb 12, 2020 7:44 pm

Sounds like good advice. I appreciate it.
Yes, my muscle memory in Premiere is blazingly fast. And I’m sure when I use resolve long enough… I will become equally fast.
And you are right, they do need to streamline. Sometimes what takes me one keystroke in premiere to perform a task, takes me three or four keystrokes to do the same thing in Resolve. That’s my biggest frustration.
But there are many pluses to be had in Resolve… For example H.264 plays like butter in Resolve, and it stutters in the newest version of Premier. And it didn’t used to. So premier is getting worse and resolve is getting better. I will be at NAB this year, I live in Las Vegas, and I’m hoping for Resolve 17.
But Las Vegas is also a Premiere Pro town… And since I work with so many other post houses… Everybody here uses Premier… So I can’t switch over easily. For now. I was pretty amazed though, that using XML, I could open up a Premiere Pro project in Resolve, and although it wasn’t perfect, it was pretty close.
But to be fair, I’m sure by NAB there will be a new Premier Pro also… It will be interesting to see if Adobe has awoken from their slumber yet.

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