NAB 2017

I would like to know what's going on with the Teranex mini IP. It's also listed in Germany on a lot of reseller's webshops...

It's very strange, I've tried to push this on their forum a fair bit recently, and weirdly the Mini-Teranex products page still references "New for NAB 2016", so perhaps they will do another press conference or some other kind of annoucement, or maybe their web-guys just forgot to update the page for NAB 2017.

I think the positive is it's on the cards for release soon, and is a VERY cool addition to BMD's product line!!

The Teranex Mini IP is now listed...
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/teranexmini

Great news, nice one BMD!

Looks like the manual is up for the SDI-IP.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/man ... eo_12G.pdf

do you have any documentation or a tutorial how to use JM as a relay to the ATEM?

A BMD Forum member asked me a year ago to make available the "Mock ATEM Server protocol"...

If you keep P.M.-ing me at the beginning of June, I'll have the solution available probably mid-June.

Just saw "ATEM Proxy" by Skaarhoj... not much detail but seems to be working.

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interesting...
Virtual IP Videohub which can control routing from an existing videohub hardware panel - that is clever and something I wasn't expecting.
I guess the elephant in the room is the cost of high bandwidth 10G ethernet switches.

It's a real shame that they have gone with 12G SDI rather than QuadLink on this box. Had it been quadlink then it would have been possible to do 4 HDSDI routes from each converter, but i guess we have to expect BMD to insist on being on the bleeding edge for a couple of years before they give in and provide products for current standards that people actually use (H265 on the duplicator having just been fixed by allowing h264 via software upgrade being a case in point)

Yep, quad link IO for 4x 1080i sources, and the ability to be a source and destination simultaneously...i'd buy a dozen of a unit with these features...

at this stage a 20x20 IP system would run me $20k...ouch

Even if the Teranex Mini IP had quad link SDI input, would that necessarily mean that each of the links would be individually routable? I would have thought that the quad link input would be treated as a single UHD video stream that's routed to wherever it's going.

Now of course they could support multiple separate SDI inputs in a single unit. And if I understand correctly, Tico supports compression ratios of up to 4:1, so it would theoretically be possible to send up to three 2160p streams (at up to 60fps) over a 10Gb link, or more than a dozen 1080p streams. So perhaps we'll see boxes with more inputs and outputs in the future.

Does anyone know if there are products from other vendors that would be compatible with the Teranex Mini IP? The Tico Alliance (http://www.tico-alliance.org) seems to list quite a few companies that have joined it, but I'm not sure how many of these companies have Tico support in real products that you can actually buy.

Obviously they would have to implement the functionality, but not having the connectors present is a bit of a deal breaker!

It's also a shortsighted lack of appreciation of how the rest of the world does 4k too. All the big serious systems are quadlink not 12g - people wanting to move to IP are far more likely to run quadlink than 12g.

It gets *very* expensive when you start looking at the full system cost... $1000 per end (multiplex + IP converter) and the cost of a 10G ethernet infrastructure (minimum of about $2500 for a 16 port switch) so a basic 8x8 router ends up costing $18500. (doing this with copper SDI would need a 32x32 router such as the AJA Kumo 3232 - this costs $3500) The blackmagic IP solution is 5x the cost!!

A HDMI/SDI version would be amazing. Also fact that all the units are not centrailsed makes a huge difference.

If the Cameras also get IP incorporaed as an option this could be a very big boom for them. IT depts love IP as they can route this easily and dont have to leave there desks. Just need to setup a VLAN.

Everything could also be different resolutions (but same frame rate) and at the end points doing the processing to desired Resolutions.

Dante support could be very useful.

Skaarhoj has an atem proxy device

It's a real shame that they have gone with 12G SDI rather than QuadLink on this box.

I would not look supprised if they integrate TICO in the other Optical teranex products.. Or into the teranex AV... But that could be a matter of time.. Also i won't be supprised if in the furture there will be a update for this teranex to allow 2 way 12G sdi over fiber with a 12G sfp instead of going the IP route..

So you could connect this box to a Atem talkback converter 4K and have a box to interconnect with the Ursa's on fiber..

Something i really missed in the NAB 2017 release is a new control panel.. (Yes i have seen the TVS HD Pro) But a new panel for all other atem mixers... I really thouged they would release one since they had the Resolve panels out..

Then i found this in the 12G IP teranex manual.. How cool would it be...

Very cool!
Cheers

I just spotted the new JLCooper Ion control panel - rack mountable and adorably sized.
http://www.jlcooper.com/_php/product.php?prod=ion

interesting...
I guess the elephant in the room is the cost of high bandwidth 10G ethernet switches.

you can get a 12 ports one from ubiquiti networks for about 500 USD

looking at the ip module, how about proposing a different firmware that would do h.264 / h.265 to various CDN streaming ?

looking at the ip module, how about proposing a different firmware that would do h.264 / h.265 to various CDN streaming ?

Totally NOT what it is for. That's distribution, it is for production.

Tico is very much a low Latency Codec. So best for this Industry to use IP.

If they did h.264 /h.265 then it would be time to sell all the shares in Teradek. This is best for Digital Signage Low Bandwidth Situations.

It would be good to have a BMD standalone Encoder. RTMP for Youtube, Facebook Live, ETC Like a Hyperdeck that could be controlled from the ATEM software.

This, overall was pretty cool:

I can see that its cool factor is much greater if you are using Blackmagic cameras.

This, so stupid:
Built in media pool graphics storage for 20 RGBA stills.

Come on, guys. Can we please move beyond this 20 image limit crap? Is memory that expensive? This is an area of your product long overdue for an upgrade. You come out with a brand new, and pretty cool switcher, and throw that ridiculous old limit on it of 20 images. So sad.

20 is plenty.

What's annoying is the lack of ability to grab a still from an input.


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also annoying...not being able to use this as a control panel when you upgrade to another switcher (4k for instance)

one of the guys at NAB did mention they are working on new control panel models, and they may be released later this year. funny, he forgot to mention swamp land for sale...

LOL

But there are new panels coming.. Allright that sounds good.. I expected it to be released at nab.. But probabbly you will see it at IBC then later this year..

I'm totally with Tom on the frame grab function.. This function is in the Teranex full size modules.. So it would be nice if this trickles down in a near software update!!

It's a real shame that they have gone with 12G SDI rather than QuadLink on this box.

I would not look supprised if they integrate TICO in the other Optical teranex products.. Or into the teranex AV... But that could be a matter of time.. Also i won't be supprised if in the furture there will be a update for this teranex to allow 2 way 12G sdi over fiber with a 12G sfp instead of going the IP route..

So you could connect this box to a Atem talkback converter 4K and have a box to interconnect with the Ursa's on fiber..

I talked with the sr product development manager, and learned they aren't doing the tico compression in the SFP (like embronix) and the SFP slot is traditional MSA, so I wouldn't expect it to be 12G optical compatible down the road. Although he did mention that he was working on 12g bidirectional over optical.
Also, with shieldrock having a decent bi-di 12g box now that you can throw on a camera easily, and the available SFP's for the ATEM cam converter 4k.... Why wait for BMD to come out with anything. I even found a Chinese manufacture claiming to do 12g sdi SFP's with pathological support. Just ordered 4 for $280...

Tico is very much a low Latency Codec. So best for this Industry to use IP.

If they did h.264 /h.265 then it would be time to sell all the shares in Teradek. This is best for Digital Signage Low Bandwidth Situations.

It would be good to have a BMD standalone Encoder. RTMP for Youtube, Facebook Live, ETC Like a Hyperdeck that could be controlled from the ATEM software.

TICO is low latency... Grass Valley is doing it with on 4 lines of delay each in compression and decompression... BMD is at 20 lines each side... How is BMD 5x slower using the same standards?

Tico is very much a low Latency Codec. So best for this Industry to use IP.

If they did h.264 /h.265 then it would be time to sell all the shares in Teradek. This is best for Digital Signage Low Bandwidth Situations.

It would be good to have a BMD standalone Encoder. RTMP for Youtube, Facebook Live, ETC Like a Hyperdeck that could be controlled from the ATEM software.

my point was that BMD could easily build this with the same hardware

my point was that BMD could easily build this with the same hardware

Mate, there is no way you could know that.

H.264/AVC or H.265 compression is a massively CPU intensive process. Decompression is a bit less intensive, but still normally handled with a dedicated bit of silicon it's not the kind of thing that be easily added via a firmware update / new FPGA logic.

My previous comment to you was trying to get across that are you are putting two vastly different use-cases together because they both use the network. This is invalid logic. It may be that BMD release a mini-teranex form-factor H.264/265 device at some point in the future, but I very much doubt it'll be a firmware update to the IP Video solution. It's not even slightly similar!

my point was that BMD could easily build this with the same hardware

Mate, there is no way you could know that.

H.264/AVC or H.265 compression is a massively CPU intensive process. Decompression is a bit less intensive, but still normally handled with a dedicated bit of silicon it's not the kind of thing that be easily added via a firmware update / new FPGA logic.

My previous comment to you was trying to get across that are you are putting two vastly different use-cases together because they both use the network. This is invalid logic. It may be that BMD release a mini-teranex form-factor H.264/265 device at some point in the future, but I very much doubt it'll be a firmware update to the IP Video solution. It's not even slightly similar!

there is a big fat fpga at the core of all those 1/3 1U rack modules, which IMHO use the same basic architecture (some Xinlinx FPGA with a couple arm cores, probably)
it is probably the same thing in the duplicator 4k which has h.264 and h.265 cores inside...
I suspect it's a matter of putting the lego-firmware-bricks together to spin a new product.

Raphaël

What you are asking for is a teranex box that can be FW upgraded ad hock. With having all the Connectors on.

IE 4 x HDMI in / out
4 x SDI in /out
10g Network
USB 2/3

Then you can just FW blat what input /output you need with scopes/multiview.

Symetrix does this with audio/Dante hardware. We have several of these and love them. Needs change. So far all we have needed to do is just design a new audio workflow into the engine and upload ourselves to get a whole new product. Count me in for any product looking in this direction!

20 is plenty.

What's annoying is the lack of ability to grab a still from an input.


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I wouldn't mind the frame grab, but 20 is not plenty. You just said that because it rhymes.

"640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates & Tom Bassford