ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Device

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JoshHayes

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ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Device

PostSun Oct 07, 2018 11:24 pm

First off, hi everyone :) My name is Josh Hayes and I'm new to the Black Magic forums. I'm also a little new to using Black Magic devices (though I did used to use an Ultra Studio Mini Recorder 5 or so years ago) but most recently it's a Video Assist a year ago, and now (and I'm very excited) my first switcher the ground level ATEM Switcher (that costs 1K, not the fancier even more awesome ones.

Ok, so here's a really brief description and I'm also uploading a video that i filmed on my phone detailing my setup, the problem, and the steps I've taken to troubleshoot it (for 8 or 9 hours) that once it's done I'll post a link to. I have a conference tomorrow that I would be DELIGHTED to use it for, and while it's prob unlikely with such little time from me to get this on the forums and ask folks, I still want to ask.

Brief description: ATEM Switcher setup went seamlessly. Downloading the software, connecting the IP address, etc... From a hardware standpoint, the switcher works perfectly. I have two cameras going into it, both are visible and working fine, and the ethernet connection to my computer is working fine too. I can completely control it in the ATEM Software Control app (switch cameras, add graphics, color bars, fades, etc...). But it will not allow me to see the video or capture it on my computer. The computer or the app or both do not read a video signal. All I get in that program is the CONNECT A BLACK MAGIC CAPTURE DEVICE. Doesn't read it in Desktop Video either. Also I'm on a MacBook Pro, which is old but functions great for me still (I don't edit a lot of 4K footage) that is mid 2011. I just want to capture my live edit. I'm also open to other ways there might be to capture it or solve this problem. I do have a MultiView Out to a Black Magic Video Assist but that can only capture the full multi view. Not the final edit.

Troubleshooting: (all suggestions I read online)
-I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling the software a bunch of times. And I've also done so in order to get Apple's Security and Permissions settings to prompt me to enable "trusting" Black Magic programs.
-I've tried upgrading to High Sierra from Sierra.
-I'm tried downgrading to the Desktop Video recommended in the software manual (10.9.5) instead of the newest version.
-i've tried going into recovery mode, getting to command line and disabling the security permissions for apps setting.
So far none of these things will just get my Mac to see the video! Is it something to do with USB? My main laptop has a USB 2.0 connection. So I thought maybe it was that. But I also have a 2012 MBP and it has Usb 3.0 capability and that didn't work. Same exact say setup that got working quickly, same exactly 1 problem.

I would be SO THANKFUL for some help :)
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Devi

PostMon Oct 08, 2018 11:27 pm

Which ATEM model do you have?

Only the original ATEM models (without screens) had any kind of built-in capture support. The original Television Studio (non-HD version) had a built-in H.264 encoder that allowed capture over USB 2.0. The original ATEM 1 M/E and 2 M/E had uncompressed capture support over USB 3.0.

The current ATEM models including the ATEM Television Studio HD and ATEM 4K models only use the USB port for configuration and software updates. You will need a separate video capture device (such as a DeckLink or UltraStudio device) if you want to capture the output from one of these switchers with a computer.
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Re: ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Devi

PostTue Oct 09, 2018 7:17 pm

HI Dave, Thanks for the quick response, I really appreciate it! Attached a pic of the model I got. It's the Atem Television Studio HD.

So am I to understand Black Magic disabled the feature from a cheaper older model? One of the main reasons I purchased the Atem after a pretty healthy amount of research was that I could capture the video without buying another piece of expensive gear. That seemed the whole idea of being at that price as an entry level-is switcher.
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Jack Fairley

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Re: ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Devi

PostTue Oct 09, 2018 8:37 pm

JoshHayes wrote:HI Dave, Thanks for the quick response, I really appreciate it! Attached a pic of the model I got. It's the Atem Television Studio HD.

So am I to understand Black Magic disabled the feature from a cheaper older model? One of the main reasons I purchased the Atem after a pretty healthy amount of research was that I could capture the video without buying another piece of expensive gear. That seemed the whole idea of being at that price as an entry level-is switcher.

You haven't been able to capture the video off of an ATEM without other devices since the original TV Studio model.
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Re: ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Devi

PostTue Oct 09, 2018 9:29 pm

Yeah David mentioned that yesterday morning. Ouch. Prob 3 of the 6 videos I saw showed capturing but now upon reflection most where old so it makes sense. Didn't even cross my mind that they would disable a super basic feature that had been around that far back. That's a very Apple-esque move. I guess it's their way to "force" people to buy more Black Magic equipment. What a bummer. It makes sense though also why I found the amount of literature of capturing to be limited. I wish I would have read it somewhere that they had chosen to block the option.

So moving on (and I appreciate the heads up) I have the choice to return my Atem or look at affordable options for capture. Has Black Magic disabled capturing with all non BM devices? What are a few of the more affordable options you folks have been using here? I've been a camera op and editor for 11 years but this stuff is a bit new to me.
David mentioned the DeckLink and UltraStudio device. I did see an Blackmagic Design UltraStudio SDI which was affordable at $240 but it was used so I'm assuming it's an older model. I also see a Blackmagic Design UltraStudio HD Mini that appears to be new for $500 (50% of the cost of the ATEM)

I also still have my UltraStudio Mini from Livestreaming a bit back in the day. Does that fit here anywhere?
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Jack Fairley

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Re: ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Devi

PostTue Oct 09, 2018 11:52 pm

It's not simply disabling a feature. The old ATEMs include hardware for capturing a video stream over USB that wasn't implemented on the new models, presumably since BMD already has a line of capture products, and they seem to have been avoiding USB capture devices since. They haven't blocked capturing with non-BMD devices either, an ATEM video output is just a SMPTE standard signal.

If your switcher is running in 1080p29.97, the cheapest options are the Decklink Mini Recorder, or the UltraStudio Mini Recorder.
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Re: ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Devi

PostThu Oct 11, 2018 3:55 am

I use the decimator so i can really run any output (usually 23.98 1080P), If that works. And now for the rookie question. If I use my Mini Recorder how would i capture the footage?
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Re: ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Devi

PostThu Oct 11, 2018 3:58 am

You can either use Media Express (bundled with Desktop Video software) to capture uncompressed, or something like OBS to capture in h264.
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Re: ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Devi

PostThu Oct 11, 2018 4:08 am

But how or what would I connect my Mini Recorder to?
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Re: ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Devi

PostThu Oct 11, 2018 4:41 am

JoshHayes wrote:But how or what would I connect my Mini Recorder to?

A computer with Desktop Video software installed.
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Re: ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Devi

PostFri Oct 12, 2018 5:25 am

Sorry I'm confused. I'm not entirely sure what output is supposed to be coming from the ATEM into the Ultra Studio Mini Recorder.

So do we mean something like me running the first SDI Output (Output 5) from the ATEM through my Ultra Studio Mini recorder, and then running it into my MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt? I'm still not getting anything in Desktop Video, Media Express, etc...
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Re: ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Devi

PostFri Oct 12, 2018 6:17 pm

You run whatever output you want to capture/stream into the Mini Recorder - usually this will be PGM. In Media Express, go to the Log and Capture tab, then go to Edit->Preferences and change the project video format to match the format the ATEM is running in.
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Re: ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Devi

PostFri Oct 12, 2018 7:24 pm

Hmm. I tried this a few days ago when I first read your post. I'm still not getting Desktop Video to recognize I have a device connected, so no dice. When I go into Media Express and go to Media Express> Preferences there's not a choice of formats from me to chose from like their used to be. Perhaps my Ultra Studio Mini Recorder isn't working? It's warm to touch so I know it's doing something....

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Re: ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Devi

PostFri Oct 12, 2018 7:28 pm

JoshHayes wrote:Hmm. I tried this a few days ago when I first read your post. I'm still not getting Desktop Video to recognize I have a device connected, so no dice.

If it doesn't show up in Desktop Video, it won't work in any other software. I would contact BMD support for help getting it working.
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Re: ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Devi

PostFri Oct 12, 2018 9:06 pm

Yeah usually I can test all the variables separately but it's hard for me to figure out if it's an issue with the new Atem/Desktop Video Utility or perhaps my Ultra Studio Mini Recorder finally "gave out" or something. I did try funning my GH4 into the USMR and out to my laptop via Thunderbolt, but Desktop Video still yes no devices attached. So I I still don't know what's not working. Wish there was a way to check the output of the USMR. I guess you're right it's time to call support.
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Re: ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Devi

PostTue Oct 16, 2018 8:42 pm

I've actually waited another week because I knew I'd have access to brand new top of the line MacBook Pro to see if I got any different results or not. Downloaded all the software, setup the ethernet connection that links the ATEM and the Computer and all that no problem (as usual). I can control the ATEM switcher from the computer again as well. I still can't get it to register any video signal. I tried the Black Magic Ultrastudio Mini Recorder on two older laptops and no dice, and you can test it on the newer laptops because it's Thunderbolt 1 and the new laptops are TB 3. So I need an adapter.

I also own a Black Magic Video Assist that I've been adding to the testing to see what results came from it. It works perfectly via Program Out or any of the SDI outs on the ATEM also. Hardware still not an issue here. But when I run an HDMI to the new MacBook Pro, no dice. I can't think of what else to try. Desktop Video, Media Express, ATEM Control Software, none of them recognize a black magic capture device whether it's my Video Assist or my Ultra Studio Mini Recorder (across a 2011 MacBook, a 2012 MacBook, and a 2018 MacBook).
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Re: ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Devi

PostTue Oct 16, 2018 9:19 pm

The Video Assists are not capture devices in that sense. It sounds like your Mini Recorder is not working.
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Re: ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Devi

PostWed Oct 17, 2018 8:03 pm

It's got to be the Blackmagic Mini Recorder, you're right. I think I've eliminated all other variable.

Super weird that Black Magic Video Assist isn't considered a capture device that would be readable in that context. Seems like everywhere in this troubleshooting the ATEM step is always this works but........ you can't stream (without buying another product) or you can't capture (without buying another product, etc.).

I could buy another Ultra Studio Mini Recorder to test that. (I'd need to get a Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) adapter to test on the newer computers), or as you suggested I could get the Blackmagic DeckLink Recorder for the cheaper options. Or go Magwell or something else for a dedicated recorder from a different company.
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Re: ATEM Troubleshooting: Connect A Black Magic Capture Devi

PostThu Oct 18, 2018 8:10 pm

What you have bought is a switcher. It switches video as you say, that works fine.

Next you add a recording solution and or a streaming solution. As Hardware or software.

It's what makes BMD gear relatively inexpensive.
You could drop 7k on an entry level Tricaster, that has everything you need in one solution.
But it's 7k, the Atem is 1k, that's the point.

I think ur issue might be the mini recorder is not a new hardware solution, it's design is dated and the resolution abilities / capabilities are not matched to the current tvs hd. I'd look overs it's specs to see if it's capable of running with ur current projects resolution.

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