Atem Mini and Multiview

Questions about ATEM Switchers, Camera Converter and everything live!
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Tim Polster

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Atem Mini and Multiview

PostSat Nov 30, 2019 3:05 pm

Hello,

I realize the Atem Mini is a feature packed device for its price but I can not get past the lack of multiview for the HDMI output. It is at the core of switching multiple cameras - you need to see all of your sources. I know people will say BM is trying to protect its higher end models but the kind of cuts the product off at its knees imho.

Does anybody from BM answer posts on this forum? I would just like to know if there is a snowballs' chance of getting the HDMI output upgraded to multiview? Otherwise, I ma having a problem justifying the purchase.

I am a video person who wants to add some live streaming to my product offerings. So I have a lot of attention on the cameras during a job and no time to check previews individually before switching to them etc... Was hoping to be able to run simple switches by just picking cameras. Not so! Thanks.
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jamedia

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostSat Nov 30, 2019 5:33 pm

I the same thing is being discussed in another forum (DvxUser). Interestingly several people don't want multiview on the HDMI output as they want to either use the HDMI as the main output or as an output to a big screen for the audience.

Personally I would LOVE to have a 4 way split screen preview for all the reasons you give. Perhaps an switchable multi-view option will be in the next firmware upgrade.

At least that is a possible firmware upgrade option.... the other thing I would have liked is an XLR audio input. That's not a "upgrade" I am going to have to use [yet more] HW adaptors :-(
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Roger coomber

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostSat Nov 30, 2019 8:19 pm

I do agree with you. What I have done is use 4 hdmi 1 input to 2 output splitters, 4 Blackmagic hdmi to sdi micro converters and a Blackmagic Multiviewer 4 hd. It would be nice if Blackmagic would do a 4 input hdmi with loop through hdmi to hdmi output unit like the Multiviewer 4hd.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostSun Dec 01, 2019 11:08 am

1 this is a user forum, there are moderators here from BMD but they can’t say anything about speculations.
2 the Multiviewers output would require a much heavier FPGA with much more cost.
3 the device is mainly targeted towards game streamers that have fixed locked off cameras. (And so do not need a Multiviewer. )

Yes the device is usable for other mixing purposes. But Bmd have sacrificed this option for a reason. Probably because the multiviewer would require another FPGA.

So at this point. If you want a multiviewer spend a bit more money and get yourself the already super cheap TVS HD which has so much power and functions for its price already.
So deal with it externally or buy the Tvs HD which is much more build for live situations.
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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Tim Polster

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostSun Dec 01, 2019 11:23 pm

Thank you for your reply. I have been researching the next level up from the Mini and I do see some nice features.

One question though - The mini has this nice capability of connecting to a laptop over USB and showing up as a webcab for fast easy streaming. Does the TVS HD have this same functionality?

It seems the Mini mentions this up front where the TVS HD does not mention streaming as much. Having the encoding inside the unit is a great. I am pretty sure I read or saw that the TVS HD does send out an encoded stream but am not sure.

Thanks for your help!
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QuantumCowbell

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostMon Dec 02, 2019 7:52 am

As a workaround if you're wanting to use the feature set of the Atem Mini:
... for relatively fixed installations, perhaps use an HDMI splitter for the output of each camera (they're very inexpensive). From each camera, one signal goes to a visible a desk or camera-mounted monitor, the other signal from a given camera goes to the Atem Mini. Or, perhaps instead of separate monitors, maybe there's a way to adapt a security system monitoring system (that's fed by the splitters on each camera)?
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostMon Dec 02, 2019 10:30 am

No the TVS HD and ALL other modern atems do NOT have streaming. This is a kind of new feature on the Mini.

While in bigger broadcast environments you usually have external streamers that give out high quality video streams that have direct links to internet like Teradek streamer or even higher end.
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jamedia

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostMon Dec 02, 2019 10:44 am

Xtreemtec wrote:No the TVS HD and ALL other modern atems do NOT have streaming. This is a kind of new feature on the Mini.

While in bigger broadcast environments you usually have external streamers that give out high quality video streams that have direct links to internet like Teradek streamer or even higher end.


The ATEM appears to be aimed at Gamers/Youtubers and podcasters. I not a lot of companies (RODE, Tascam, Zoom etc) have brought out inexpensive podcasting boxes.

However the ATEM Mini is a great tool for those want to do live outside broadcast to Youtube with multiple cameras.. We have three gigs like that before Christmas. Normally it would be a single camera. The ATEM Mini has put this within reach of many many more people.

I think the ATEM Mini Mk2 will be the one to get but I doubt we will see that until 2021.
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Tim Polster

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostMon Dec 02, 2019 2:03 pm

Thanks for your reply. That is a shame because the argument that the Mini was crippled to protect higher end models kind of falls down here. If one is in the market for the Mini, it is unlikely that they will be happy to jump to at least a $1,500 investment on the next shelf up to be able to stream and get multiview. Kind of confusing since the Mini has a lot of the features of the larger models. Oh well... One more piece of gear in the video industry that you will probably buy and have to use waiting for the better design to come along.

I am feeling the need to offer some streaming services but do not want it to turn into a cable/gear nightmare before I can see the amount of work & money that is there.
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Jared Scoggins

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostMon Dec 02, 2019 3:28 pm

Tim,

I hear you about multiview. I will give my opinion as a non-video person. If you just want to offer streaming services, just use it like a webpresenter. It is cheaper and more capable. As a non video person, It feels like BMD made this just for me.

I do think this is a matter of scope and scale of the job versus BMD trying to protect higher end equipment. Watch the CEO give a demo of the ATEM mini. This can do quite a lot for $295. I spent that on just a scaler. If you need it to do more it can be used in conjunction with either additional ATEM Mini’s or other ATEM Switchers.


As a non-video person, I feel this product is perfect. I do not need multi-view when I give training presentations or my kids want to live stream their video game play. To record and/or stream a training presentation it cost me $1,785 in equipment. --- $995 for an ATEM Television Studio HD, $495 for a web presenter, and $295 for a Decimator MD-DX so the laptop (or tablet) video can scale and sync with the camera input.

I feel the ATEM Mini is just right for its target market. Podcasters, Trainers, Conference Presenters, Video Game Streamers, etc. Those with a total field of view and want to mix in a fixed source or two like a computer screen / slide show, live or pre-recorded video, or video game. For things that are more complicated it can work alongside a full featured ATEM switcher if connected over Ethernet and on the same network.

Once I get my ATEM Mini and expand what I do with it; I may either, incorporate the ATEM Television studio with it or use rack mounted monitors that loop out to the ATEM Mini if I need it.

I think the ATEM mini will be great and the lack of multiview is not a big deal for me. The ATEM mini lets those of us use A/V without an enormous investment. Those who do A/V for a living are professionals who have a lot of skill and experience. Their scope is much more complicated than how the ATEM Mini is marketed. While multiview would be great, this is just not in the scope of what was made for.…. at $295.

The ATEM Mini and RODECaster Pro would make an awesome pairing for anyone wanting to do a podcast.
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Tim Polster

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostMon Dec 02, 2019 4:46 pm

I see your points and am glad it hits the mark for you. I am hung up on the marketing phrase that is the first thing one sees when visiting the BM website -

"Introducing the ATEM MINI - New affordable live production switcher specifically designed for YouTube streaming..."

Seems like they think it is for live production switching. Which in my mind needs simple multiview for basic operation. We are pretty far down the road in video production products to say ..."but it's cheap" imho. I am going to contact BM today and see if they have anything on the topic. I want to buy the unit and have it help me do more work. Hopefully there is some way forward.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostMon Dec 02, 2019 5:02 pm

The other problem with this device if used as rental is, What are you going to charge for it? :? :?

I mean it is 295, Normally we have a thumb rule of 10% of the market value. ( Not with everything.. Cant charge 500 euro for an Atem 4Me :roll: )

So now i rent the unit for $30 :roll: :lol: Whoo that is going to put money in the bank... Asking a bit more and the clients will say naah i buy 1 myself.

I already had 2 clients that rented my TVS HD regulair, now saying we buy the Mini as it cost the same as the HD rack you rent out to us. ( I have a Dualview, TVS HD, $1000 streamer/recorder, router, case and laptop in there.. ) But already lost 2 clients due to this product.
Guess what i say when they call for support :lol: ;)
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Tim Polster

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostMon Dec 02, 2019 6:10 pm

I really do not see this as being in the pro rental market but rather prosumer. I am not a pro streamer but a pro video person. A true streaming setup starts at the level you described earlier, but many clients just want a little something online. "A little something" does not pay very much as they are not serious enough or have the funds to do it properly.
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Tim Polster

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostMon Dec 02, 2019 10:32 pm

Called BM and it looks like a done deal, no changes. I will probably buy one anyway as I will find a way to make it work.
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostTue Dec 03, 2019 12:28 am

IF U desperately need Multiview , then just add Blackmagic MultiView 4 HD :

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... s/W-MVW-03

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jamedia

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostTue Dec 03, 2019 8:58 am

Not if all the cameras use HDMI (otherwise why would we be buying the ATEM Mini)
However there do seem to be HDMI splitters and combiners on Amazon.
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostTue Dec 03, 2019 11:57 am

jamedia : YEs .. U need to add aditional BMD micro bidirectional converters .. But U get ability to add SDI cameras too .. So U can decide SDI or HDMI input .. Thats great .. HDMI is OK for short distances .. For longer distances (longer than 3m) i preffer SDI ..
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jamedia

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostTue Dec 03, 2019 12:18 pm

Roman Pytkin Pekarek wrote:jamedia : YEs .. U need to add aditional BMD micro bidirectional converters .. But U get ability to add SDI cameras too .. So U can decide SDI or HDMI input .. Thats great .. HDMI is OK for short distances .. For longer distances (longer than 3m) i preffer SDI ..



At this point with all the adaptors it is probably better to go to something other than the ATEM Mini. It is what it is. As you say HDMI is ok for short distances. So most YouTubers.

I expect from the comments by others closer to BMD that there will be an ATEM Midi in the future, rather than a ATEM Mini firmware upgrade, that has more of the features people are asking for.
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Tim Polster

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostTue Dec 03, 2019 1:59 pm

Yes, it is what it is. Adding a bunch of converters just makes things more complicated and messy. I fully expect to buy and sell this unit when a version comes out with multiview. My opinion about streaming is that it is not about quality. I do not care if I have an uncompressed output from my switcher. I want easy. Maybe in the future we will need to treat streaming on the level of broadcast television but in the mean time, USB direct to YT or Facebook is all that matters for me.

The Mini hits the mark, they just left out a key feature.
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostWed Dec 04, 2019 11:44 pm

jamedia wrote:At this point with all the adaptors it is probably better to go to something other than the ATEM Mini.

Yes U are right .. Atem Constellation is good point .. There is not another ATEM with with Fairlight Audio , etc ..
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QuantumCowbell

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostThu Dec 05, 2019 5:26 am

In the big picture, my main interest is putting together a quality, customized, flexible system for business communications over, e.g., Zoom or Skype. Coming in as a close second purpose would be to create recorded video-based presentations.

I have an ATEM Mini on order from Adorama - looking forward to trying it out. For me multiview monitoring capability is a workflow feature of value but I don't necessarily need it built in to the ATEM Mini. That being said, it would have been nice if the ATEM Mini had a set of loop-through HDMI outputs mirroring each HDMI input such as my Magewell USB Capture HDMI Plus has. I would have been happy to pay extra for that feature.

After researching further, I've decided to order from Amazon an "Orei Quad Multi-Viewer 4x1 HDMI Switcher" that among its features will show four input sources concurrently on a single monitor. I'm also ordering four Orei HDMI 1 in 2 out splitters. And a variety of HDMI cables of different lengths!

In my use case, I'll have available as video sources various Sony mirrorless cameras and computers, all with HDMI output. These will need to run to the ATEM Mini using HDMI cable anyway. My plan is use the splitters near the ATEM Mini (rather at the sources). Then use short HDMI cables to run 4 signals from the splitters to the multiview HDMI switcher that will in turn feed a 40" Samsung TV I already here to use as a signal monitor. Another set of 4 signals from the splitters will feed into the ATEM Mini. Compared to other control room-based video and audio studios I've designed and had built in the past, this present case wiring is not complicated.

For the above arrangement, all I want to do is see what's happening with a given source signal for use with the ATEM Mini - the quality on the Samsung 40" monitor is secondary, I don't need to be able to see the finest of detail. Nor do I need or want to get involved with SDI gear. I'm also not using the video monitoring for audio evaluation - I'll do that primarily through the ATEM Mini and/or one of the various outboard mixers here along with, at times, existing rack mount outboard audio signal processing equipment. Also in the mix are studio grade powered loudspeakers and headphones (depending on the situation). Mics can be wireless or wired or both, depending on music and voice sources. There's a mix of studio-type lighting for illumination. Hopefully this solution will work as planned!
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostThu Dec 05, 2019 10:48 am

Roman Pytkin Pekarek wrote:
jamedia wrote:At this point with all the adaptors it is probably better to go to something other than the ATEM Mini.

Yes U are right .. Atem Constellation is good point .. There is not another ATEM with with Fairlight Audio , etc ..

TVS 4K Pro does have Fairlight too ;)
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostThu Dec 05, 2019 1:57 pm

Oh Yes Daniel .. I forgot :)
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killeryellow

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostSat Dec 07, 2019 8:59 am

It's just strange not to have it, since even if I only had two inputs or fixed camera angles, I'd still want to see what was going on in each input before switching to it to avoid things like... I dunno, cutting to someone right when they're picking their nose or a technical issue that means the other input has gone dark or someone has bumped the tripod, etc etc. Just a really odd omission.

I was going to buy one to replace my Roland V1-HD since it looks like a slimmer form factor and I LOVE how they laid out the audio and PnP buttons, which the Roland does not have, but no multiview is a dealbreaker. Even if I wasn't doing pro AV, I wouldn't buy it! Who wants to switch to god knows what in a totally live situation without previewing it!
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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostSat Dec 07, 2019 9:58 am

killeryellow wrote:It's just strange not to have it, since even if I only had two inputs or fixed camera angles, I'd still want to see what was going on in each input before switching to it to avoid things like... I dunno, cutting to someone right when they're picking their nose or a technical issue that means the other input has gone dark or someone has bumped the tripod, etc etc. Just a really odd omission.

I was going to buy one to replace my Roland V1-HD since it looks like a slimmer form factor and I LOVE how they laid out the audio and PnP buttons, which the Roland does not have, but no multiview is a dealbreaker. Even if I wasn't doing pro AV, I wouldn't buy it! Who wants to switch to god knows what in a totally live situation without previewing it!


It has a program / preview mode that allows you to see what you are switching to before it is live. You don't have to switch blind.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostSat Dec 07, 2019 10:58 am

killeryellow wrote:It's just strange not to have it, since even if I only had two inputs or fixed camera angles, I'd still want to see what was going on in each input before switching to it to avoid things like... I dunno, cutting to someone right when they're picking their nose or a technical issue that means the other input has gone dark or someone has bumped the tripod, etc etc. Just a really odd omission.

I was going to buy one to replace my Roland V1-HD since it looks like a slimmer form factor and I LOVE how they laid out the audio and PnP buttons, which the Roland does not have, but no multiview is a dealbreaker. Even if I wasn't doing pro AV, I wouldn't buy it! Who wants to switch to god knows what in a totally live situation without previewing it!

Again. The product is mainly targeted towards live game streamers!!
So the main layout would look a bit like this:
HDMI1: Game Console / Output of game pc
HDMI2: Front camera towards player
HDMI3: Side camera towards player
HDMI4: Overlay or some other cam.
HDMI out>> Monitor for the gameplay
USB OUT>> OBS or direct to twitch, FB, YT etc.

This is what BMD is targeting this product to.
Also BMD says if you need a multiviewer. Then buy the TVS HD.
If you think the Multiviewer is a big issue. Then this Atem is not for you!!

As i stated before in this topic. To get the product cheap like this! They needed to strip out a lot of options. The multiviewer is one of them as it requires another FPGA to do the multiviewer and other functions.

Then the device would have been twice as expensive and needed active cooling. Meaning the device would be much bigger.
All in All this is a decision that BMD did. Deal with it!! If you need a multiviewer then buy the TVS HD.
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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jamedia

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostSat Dec 07, 2019 1:01 pm

I agree that BMD has aimed this at the YouTubers who have 2 or 3 fixed cameras + computer input and are self-operators. Ie they are the talent and the operator.

However I can see this time next year (or Q1/2 2021) the ATEM Midi that is aimed at the next level up you tubers that has an XLR audio in and multi-view. It will be more expensive than the Mini and less than the TVS. (This is pure conjecture but it seems logical)

The many of the target audience are using XLR mics (and small audio mixers) with consumer cameras (and entry level pro cameras) with HDMI outputs but no SDI outputs so the TVs will not be as attractive for them.

I think the ATEM Mini (and potential ATEM Midi) are aimed at a different market to the traditional ATEM market even if superficially the functionality (video switching) looks similar. .
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: Atem Mini and Multiview

PostSat Dec 07, 2019 5:12 pm

ATEM MINI + Multiview 4 HD + 4x Bidirectional mini converters is STILL cheaper then BMD TVS HD .. And have ability of use independent resolutions in inptus and Fairlight Audio ... Everybody need Compressors and limiters in stream , if U want good audio ..

I do lot of streams of political discussions .. With one or two cammeras .. Im using ATEM TVS HD for it now .. In big rack with builded 21" monitor , 2U rack audio mix , etc .. Atem MINI will be great replacement in smaller case ..
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