SDI to HDMI 6G Mini Converter - No 1080p60 Video

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kfodor

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SDI to HDMI 6G Mini Converter - No 1080p60 Video

PostFri Jan 10, 2020 6:31 pm

Hello all,

As the title suggests, I'm using a Blackmagic SDI to HDMI 6G mini converter and not getting a 1080p 60fps video signal.

Here's the setup (see links below for specs):
Videology 24Z2.1W-10X-EXSDI -> 75 Ohm Coax w/ BNC connectors, ~25 feet -> Blackmagic Mini Converter -> 5ft HDMI cable -> 1080p 60Hz monitor

The camera has EX-SDI and HD-SDI modes with selectable formats up to 1080p60. When the camera is in HD-SDI Mode and the output is set to 1080p30, it works fine. Clear video is displayed on the monitor. When I switch the camera output to 1080p60, however, the video feed cuts to black. I have all the DIP switches set to the default positions, and the converter is fresh out of the packaging. I didn't plug it into anything beforehand, and all the settings are unchanged and presumably at their defaults. I've successfully had 1080p60 work with a similar setup, where I had the Clinton Electronics version of the SeeEyes SC-HDR01E converter instead of the Blackmagic one, so I know the camera and monitor should be able to handle it.

I have a second question, but it may be a bit off topic for this forum, so I won't be too disappointed if nobody answers it ;) :

My end goal is to have the Videology camera in EX-SDI mode outputting a 1080p60fps live video signal to the monitor. This is because the desired application uses some high loss cabling, and an HD-SDI signal just won't be usable. Does anyone know of a converter which can take a 1080p 60fps EX-SDI 1.0 signal and convert it to HD-SDI, so the Blackmagic mini converter can use it? Or even better, a converter which takes an EX-SDI 1.0 signal and converts it directly to HDMI? The Clinton Electronics converter can do this with EX-SDI 2.0, but not EX-SDI 1.0.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: SDI to HDMI 6G Mini Converter - No 1080p60 Video

PostFri Jan 10, 2020 8:09 pm

The answer is fairly simple!!

EX-SDI is not part of the Broadcast SMPTE standard but is something made up by the Security companies to transfer HD images trough long coax lines and also send RS485 back trough the same Coax. And if i'm not mistaken can even carry power trough the EX-SDI line. Which could even KILL other SDI hardware!!

While it is called SDI and has some resemblance with SDI. It does not follow SMPTE guidelines and does not have the correct payload ID's to tell the converter it is 3G-SDI (1080P60) So in 1080P30 or 1080i50 it works because the camera sends HD-SDI. But as soon as you go up to 1080P60 you enter the EX-SDI domain which is NOT compatible with broadcast hardware!! ;)

That SeeEyes converter is made by the Security companies and supports EX-SDI.
So Ditch this camera and buy something that is SMPTE compatible. Or buy the correct converter that does EX-SDI.
That SeeEyes converter seems to do both EX-SDI 1.0 and 2.0 So why not buy that converter!
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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kfodor

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Re: SDI to HDMI 6G Mini Converter - No 1080p60 Video

PostMon Jan 13, 2020 4:29 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:The answer is fairly simple!!

EX-SDI is not part of the Broadcast SMPTE standard but is something made up by the Security companies to transfer HD images trough long coax lines and also send RS485 back trough the same Coax. And if i'm not mistaken can even carry power trough the EX-SDI line. Which could even KILL other SDI hardware!!

While it is called SDI and has some resemblance with SDI. It does not follow SMPTE guidelines and does not have the correct payload ID's to tell the converter it is 3G-SDI (1080P60) So in 1080P30 or 1080i50 it works because the camera sends HD-SDI. But as soon as you go up to 1080P60 you enter the EX-SDI domain which is NOT compatible with broadcast hardware!! ;)

That SeeEyes converter is made by the Security companies and supports EX-SDI.
So Ditch this camera and buy something that is SMPTE compatible. Or buy the correct converter that does EX-SDI.
That SeeEyes converter seems to do both EX-SDI 1.0 and 2.0 So why not buy that converter!


This makes sense to me, at least partially. The 1080p 60fps "HD-SDI" output from the camera likely does not adhere to SMPTE 292 or SMPTE 424, because by definition, HD-SDI is limited to 1.485 Gbit/s. The Blackmagic mini converter is probably getting what it expects to be an SMPTE 292 signal, but is unable to do anything with it because it is at a higher than expected frame/data rate.

Now I have to get a cable that can pass the 1080p60 "HD-SDI" signal from my camera to the SeeEyes converter. and if that fails, I have to find an EX-SDI 2.0 output camera.

Lesson: Security companies do not necessarily follow the same video standards as the broadcast industry!
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Xtreemtec

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Re: SDI to HDMI 6G Mini Converter - No 1080p60 Video

PostMon Jan 13, 2020 7:21 pm

1080P60 is not HD-SDI at all. What i can make up from the documentation i found on EX-SDI. Is that those cams have an output up to 1080I50/60 that is conform SMPTE standard.
And that is also why the converter works up to 1080P30.

But 1080P60 is send in EX-SDI mode. This is because normal composite video cable is normally not able to carry 3G-SDI signals due to too much degredation in the cable..

So security companies have made their own "standard" Loosely based on SDI that is able to push 1080P60 trough old RG59 composite video cabling.
They probably use a much higher voltage and a different way of scrambeling / conversion of the video data.
So now the signal is not AT ALL compatible anymore with normal SDI standards.. :roll:

This is why i always advice people not to buy Security cameras.. 9/10 times it is pretty disappointing and also often the video quality is not really what you expect. Security cameras are mainly build to identify people and have good lighting properties even in worse conditions and not to give a true and correct color resemblance.
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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kfodor

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Re: SDI to HDMI 6G Mini Converter - No 1080p60 Video

PostMon Jan 13, 2020 7:24 pm

Thank you for the information!

This is really good to know. I hope this thread ends up as a google search result for anyone else struggling with this issue :lol:

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