gopro alternatives for live production

obviously gopro's are a bit hit and miss with the atems.
and they are also wide shot only.
And they use stupidly flimsy micro hdmi and USB slots, which are bound to break sooner or later.

there has been a lot of talk about dslr's with clean hdmi output.

i just discovered that the sony hx9v (a point and shoot) outputs a clean 1080i or p output.
and it has a 16x sony g lens (roughly 24mm at wide end)
in video mode it has a clean output except when you use the zoom (displays the zoom position) or
record, at which point it says rec on screen. (ie. can't give clean out while recording)

they can be picked up 2nd hand for under $100

only real downsides are:
1-that you can't power them from usb in record mode, so your only option is batteries (and the battery cover is blocked by most tripods due to it's proximity to the 1/4" thread, or bodgying up some kind of dummy battery power suppy and modifying the battery cover. (which is what i am doing.)

2- also even in 720 mode it still seems to output 1080 i or p (selectable) only.

image quality is outstanding (better than gopro, and uses an exmor sensor, so is pretty good in low light)

by the way, it is a point and shoot shape camera, on the large side of average. oh, and it has a 3" screen and OIS even in video mode.
i am in pal land and i have bought 3 of the 50i model. i assume in the US there would be a 60i model. mine outputs 1080i50 or p50
and if you google it you will have to ignore the thousands of references to it not having a clean, live hdmi output. it does.
if running on battery you get about 80 mins of output in video mode, while not recording.

I have bought some small 1/4" M-F spigots so I can tripod mount it and still open the battery cover.

Good info. Would be nice to see comparison with a GoPro 3 + or at least 3 Black Edition in low light.

low light vs gopro comparo

general video review

steadishot from bicycle

So no manual exposure control?

we are not having many issues with the new GoPro 3... seems (GoPro) firmware update resolved LOTS of issues we have had with previous models and BM equipment.
also running via a BM Teranex resolved, an expensive work around, but it works.

So no manual exposure control?

Yes, it has a 12 step EV adjustment (from -2 to +2)

Update (incase anyone cares)
cameras work fine running into hdmi to sdi converter (black magic and ebay cheapy)
but won't play with hyperdeck shuttle acting as a recorder and hdmi converter.

I need the shuttles to work because if you record in camera the video out has 'REC' stamped on it.
solution is to run the camera into a cheapy hdmi to sdi converter, then run the sdi into the shuttle.

a bit of a mess around, but still not bad considering the price compared to go pro, and the zoom, and the built in display.

Update.

I have managed to work out a way to power the HX9V from 18650 batteries.
(by dismantling a cheap aftermarket bg-1 battery, and re-wiring it with leads to an external 18650 holder. )
This means I can now run it for up to 12 hours using 4 batteries in parallel. (and also hot swap batteries if needed.)

I have actually managed to get it to run on mains, by using a 3.7v step down, but the camera thinks the battery is low, and displays a low battery symbol.

Of course a much better go-pro alternative is the new Marshall CV500-MB

Selectable output resolution 720p50/59.94, 1080 I/P 25/29.97/50/59.94
HD-SDI out
Interchangeable lenses
Same size as go-pro
similar price to go pro 3+ black
but does not record (no sd card slot)

Of course a much better go-pro alternative is the new Marshall CV500-MB

But has anyone actually used them yet? I've been interested in these cameras for the past 2 months, but have found little in the way of sample footage and no user reviews. I was going to buy one, but finally got my Hero 2's to work for long casts. Still interested due to the HD-SDI out though!

More very interesting info. Thanks for posting - how can I mark this for reading later without posting?

Here is the exact same camera as the "Marhsall" for less http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1051406-REG/viewz_vz_hdc_m1_hd_sdi_true_wdr_mp.html.

Most if not all Marhsall stuff is rebranded from Asian manufacturers. Truen for instance does their IP en/decorders and more. http://www.truen.co.kr/

That "Marshall" camera can probably be had for less than $200 from the original manufacturer.

hmmm. the plot thickens. thank you very much for sharing.

Of course a much better go-pro alternative is the new Marshall CV500-MB

But has anyone actually used them yet? I've been interested in these cameras for the past 2 months, but have found little in the way of sample footage and no user reviews. I was going to buy one, but finally got my Hero 2's to work for long casts. Still interested due to the HD-SDI out though!

We've tried to use the Marshall. It didn't work however we may have a faulty unity. We couldn't get to work in router nor hooking it up to a sdi monitor. The footage looks great from what I've seen.

Not for sure if it will work with bmd.

Update on using Sony HX9V live.

Turns out these cameras will work (moderately) fine running on 5v through the modified battery method.
(pull the lithium cell out of a sony BG-1 battery but leave the small circuit board. then wire directly onto the circuit contacts. I wired a 5.5/2.1 male connector on a 30cm 'tail' that hangs out of the camera.)
Then you just feed 5v out of a plug pack into your new 'fake battery'.
Using this method the camera will run for about 180mins before it decides it has a low battery.
(the camera will run indefinitely but after 180 mins the low battery symbol displays on the otherwise clean HDMI out.)
By turning off the camera, unplugging the 5v, then turning it back on you can do another 3 hours.

So, here's a summery of the limitations of using the HX9V live:
1- 3 hour limit before a power cycle required.
2- can't record in camera (because it inserts 'rec' over the output.
3- Can't zoom live (because it inserts the zoom slider graph over the HDMI output.)
4- HDMI output doesn't seem to work into a hyperdeck shuttle
5- Has to be run in 'landscape' mode, otherwise it shows squares around faces

And here are the benefits:
1- switchable output from 1080i50 or 1080p50 (probably 59.94 if you buy one in a non-pal country)
2- great picture quality
3- 16x sony G lens that is pretty wide at the wide end (24mm).
4- Has a screen
5- Works with atem either by HDMI or through cheap SDI converter
6- Can be picked up for about $100 2nd hand.

About the CV500: it will not work with, at least, the 4K ATEMs. I purchased two and got intermittent video or black and white. Marshall support told me that CV500 doesn't play well with the 4K ATEMs but the CV342 does. I'm working on exchanging the 500 for the 342 now. I'll update when I get them in.

Does the cv342 come with a lens or no?

The original Marshall CV500-MB had some issues with compatibility of its video signal.

The newer Marshall CV500-MB2 seems to have changed the video output signal (and also adds a full sized SDI connector). For me, it seems to work fine in 1080i5994 mode or 720p5994 with the ATEMs.

The CV500-MB2 also adds 3G SDI modes (1080p5994), however, in 1080p5994 mode it seems to be outputting a 3G SDI level A signal, but the Blackmagic gear only works with 3G SDI Level B. It works fine with a monitor I have that has 3G SDI Level A support.

The original Marshall CV500-MB had some issues with compatibility of its video signal.

The newer Marshall CV500-MB2 seems to have changed the video output signal (and also adds a full sized SDI connector). For me, it seems to work fine in 1080i5994 mode or 720p5994 with the ATEMs.

The CV500-MB2 also adds 3G SDI modes (1080p5994), however, in 1080p5994 mode it seems to be outputting a 3G SDI level A signal, but the Blackmagic gear only works with 3G SDI Level B. It works fine with a monitor I have that has 3G SDI Level A support.

Yes the CV500-MB did not put out a proper 59.94 signal, so it would't show up on most SDI devices. I developed a workaround and used 4 of them for this video:



I ended up passing them through an MD-QUAD and from there into a decklink quad where the effects were applied with PVP2, then sent to the plasmas on stage. In general we found that the MD-QUAD or even the MD-CROSS/HX will accept the signal from the CV500-MB and even using them as a pass through device would allow BMD gear to then accept the signal. I have found that specifically BMD gear in general is very picky about the signals that they take.

We have one of the CV500-MB2's and been very pleased, we've used it on several occasions now. It is much more robust than the MB and has a more compatible signal that works with 90% of our gear, but still has problems with BMD stuff. An example of using the MB2 is on a pad for a POV shot is here:



I would recommend using one of these marshall cameras because of the lack of delay vs a go pro. Also the connection and power is much more robust/live friendly. I believe you could get one into an ATEM by using a cheap SDI->HDMI converter, decimator product, or other such conversion device that will accept the signal from them to do a small bit of processing to the signal. This seems to fix the compatability issues although adding some extra cost/complexity. The only concern about the knock offs is the lack of 59.94 support, most of them only have 60i/p, not 59.94. If you can find one that will work for you, great! A friend of mine uses 4 of the $75 amazon jobbers in his security system and they work great. But they are only 60P! BTW we have been using our MB2 in 1080i59.94. I might try getting the MB2 into one of our ATEM 4k's and older 1 M/E if there are any interested and post the results.

Cheers!

Gordon7

Take on me...WELL DONE SIR!!

We have one of the CV500-MB2's and been very pleased, we've used it on several occasions now. It is much more robust than the MB and has a more compatible signal that works with 90% of our gear, but still has problems with BMD stuff. An example of using the MB2 is on a pad for a POV shot is here:

Thanks for the insights.

I would appreciate a timecode where to find the mentioned shot.

Gordon7

Take on me...WELL DONE SIR!!

Thanks! It was challenging to pull off, but it was tons of fun.

Thanks for the insights.

I would appreciate a timecode where to find the mentioned shot.

Sure thing:
0:32
0:48
1:19
1:42
2:35

Thanks.

I've been using the Marshall CV500 MB2 this past season for volleyball games. They are tiny and with proper mounting can fit well right on the net post. You can see some footage here, most notably around the 45 second mark. In this particular match the ref had bumped the camera right at the start of the first set and we couldn't fix it until the break between set 1 and 2. But it gives you an idea of the lens capabilities. This is shot with the stock lens.

The image quality is lower than actual output. It's outputting 1080 but I have to down convert it to 480i at the moment for reasons not worth going in to right now. Bottom line is I've been very happy with the Marshall CV500MB2. We use it in basketball for a general beauty shot of the arena, but hope to move it up behind a basketball hoop in the future.

I chose this camera over a GoPro because, as others have already pointed out, it has native HD-SDI output rather than HDMI.

Hope that helps!

Zach

I've setup a number of Marshall CV500-MB2 and CV342-CSB cameras into ATEM 4K switchers for House of Worship and College sporting events with no compatibility issues or signal problems. According to Marshall Electronics there was an issue on first generation CV500 models but it was subsequently corrected with a capacitor upgrade on the camera board and payload ID headers. These cameras output 1920x1080i, 1080p, and 720p in 59.94fps. Marshall has greatly improved them since the first generation models - and they're easy to setup with full sized BNC (HDSDI) outputs on rear panel and interchangeable lenses - and affordable. If you can't tell I'm a big fan!!!

ESPN and Fox Sports uses the CV500-MB2 cameras on a variety of broadcasts.

MLB, NBA, PGA use them also from what I hear for unique POV shots like backboard cameras or pylon cameras. Also on college sports like soccer and volleyball.

Major League Baseball uses them on their K-zone pitching analysis on TV, see here: sportsvideo.org/main/blog/2015/04/03/espn-commits-to-k-zone-live-on-every-pitch-for-mlb-coverage/

NFL are using them on Thursday nights built into the Pylons.