Music Venue 8 Camera Live Stream

Greetings all-

I have been tasked with figuring out the hardware specifics for purchasing an 8 camera live streaming rig for the music venue I work at. The requirements are as follows

- live stream online
-potential to broadcast on tv (small local networks)
-8 HD-SDI feeds from 8 cameras
-audio capture from sound mixer
-recording of stream
-Mac-based production facility

With that in mind, what hardware configurations would the community suggest? Including cameras I'm trying to keep the whole setup under 30k. All input would be greatly appreciated!

-Austin

Though I can't answer all of these questions, the first someone else will probably ask is what type of cameras? Are they fixed, to have their own operator, to be remotely controlled? If there is an operator, do you need communication to the operator? etc.

What distances are you running for the leads? Is the cabling to be installed? Is that part of your cost?

The ATEM line should cover your needs for a switcher but depends a bit as well on what the components are!

Though I can't answer all of these questions, the first someone else will probably ask is what type of cameras? Are they fixed, to have their own operator, to be remotely controlled? If there is an operator, do you need communication to the operator? etc.

What distances are you running for the leads? Is the cabling to be installed? Is that part of your cost?

The ATEM line should cover your needs for a switcher but depends a bit as well on what the components are!

Great question! 4 have operators on TBD cameras (looking for SDI cams at or under 3k, very hard to find for what I want) and 4 are static cameras (the new GoPros with BMC HDMI-SDI convertors are static so all 8 connections are SDI). Because of the venue's size, all cabling will be about 100' per cable and is included in cost.

I was considering getting a Mac Pro with USB 3.0 card and running an ATEM 2 M/E Broadcast Panel into it. The live stream needs to be recorded as well for on-demand publication after the live date, and was going to purchase the Hyper Deck Studio for that- is that what I'd use that product for? I know these sound like some pretty basic questions but my knowledge of video is very swiss-cheese being self-taught!

spend some more time do some more research ... some other questions ...

will you need an in house feed ?? if so what are those requirements? hd, sd, sdi, hdmi, analog ?? what if any is existing equipment you can reuse re purpose ??

what if any would be your graphics requirements??

if you say broadcast local what do they require clean feeds of everything or switched show? would you have a house patch for sat truck or "outside" production??

do you have existing audio in place?? do you need talent / ifb etc ??

simple analog com's are great for small productions and can be acquired and expanded fairly easily clearcom, rts, production intercoms just to name a few.

cam's with genlock would be ideal if you have local feeds to keep delay to minimum ... 30k isn't a large budget and maybe you look at what are your most important pieces and build a system you can expand when you expand your budget ... ie 2me with 1me panel just as an example ...

but i'd start with a router twice as big as you think you need and the best quality cams you can get go pro's are ok for pov shots but no remote functions really limit them to do more as your shows grow ...

spend some more time do some more research ... some other questions ...

will you need an in house feed ?? if so what are those requirements? hd, sd, sdi, hdmi, analog ?? what if any is existing equipment you can reuse re purpose ??

what if any would be your graphics requirements??

if you say broadcast local what do they require clean feeds of everything or switched show? would you have a house patch for sat truck or "outside" production??

do you have existing audio in place?? do you need talent / ifb etc ??

simple analog com's are great for small productions and can be acquired and expanded fairly easily clearcom, rts, production intercoms just to name a few.

cam's with genlock would be ideal if you have local feeds to keep delay to minimum ... 30k isn't a large budget and maybe you look at what are your most important pieces and build a system you can expand when you expand your budget ... ie 2me with 1me panel just as an example ...

but i'd start with a router twice as big as you think you need and the best quality cams you can get go pro's are ok for pov shots but no remote functions really limit them to do more as your shows grow ...

Thanks so much for the quick response guys, I really appreciate it. I guess I should clarify- Think Austin City Limits if you are familiar. I am being tasked by the venue I work with to come up with a permanent installation for streaming/potentially broadcasting live concerts with no existing equipment. While I'd like to buy some really great 16k cams for this, the only way for the business model we have for this service to work is to keep costs down, hence the 30k budget. I know many of you are lightyears beyond what I'll be doing, and that's why I've come here for help since I'm very new to live video work.

Let's not even touch broadcasting locally- as things stand it the technical requirements would make it very hard for us to do this initially.

We have 200k in the venue's audio system and a consistent feed of talent. Right now it's about 3 shows a month but when the stream is in place we'll be doing at least a show a week.

Yeah there are definitely limitations with GoPro's but I was simply going to use them as cutaways with one on the drummer's drum set, one behind the talent on stage facing crowd, and 2 in the rafters facing crowd/talent.

The rest of the 4 cams will have operators 1 in the back getting hero shots, one on a jib (thinking of using GH2 with wide lens for this since I don't have the budget to control remotely), 1 in the pit in front of the stage and one side stage.

Are there any cameras out there that any of you would with more experience would recommend? Given my budget I was looking at the Sony NX5U HD, even if I had to request another 10-12k to do so.

We do use the GoPros (we do medical simulation) and is good for the wide shots, but as Brian said, you have no control at all over it.

Believe the ATEM will do what you want but also agree with Brian, plan for the future as much as practical, not just today. Work out what is critical and what is nice to have. The key thing for the ATEM is that all the inputs have to be the same; frame rate and resolution. (Can use up/down/cross converter if needed) but as long as all your cameras can do the same...

30K is not a lot for what you are trying to do. Don't skimp on tripods for the tripod based cameras! Do not think you need a hyperdeck (unless you want it as an input into the ATEM), you're already recording onto the mac. I'd go imac over macpro at the moment if this is the only task for the machine. Comes with USB3, faster processor. Don't have much experience with live internet streaming, but do know good connection is critical.

We do use the GoPros (we do medical simulation) and is good for the wide shots, but as Brian said, you have no control at all over it.

Believe the ATEM will do what you want but also agree with Brian, plan for the future as much as practical, not just today. Work out what is critical and what is nice to have. The key thing for the ATEM is that all the inputs have to be the same; frame rate and resolution. (Can use up/down/cross converter if needed) but as long as all your cameras can do the same...

30K is not a lot for what you are trying to do. Don't skimp on tripods for the tripod based cameras! Do not think you need a hyperdeck (unless you want it as an input into the ATEM), you're already recording onto the mac. I'd go imac over macpro at the moment if this is the only task for the machine. Comes with USB3, faster processor. Don't have much experience with live internet streaming, but do know good connection is critical.

Gotcha- we will have a great Internet connection and It's sounding like an essential would be to ask for at least another 10k for more cameras, or scale down the number of cam's just a bit to two or three and buy more when the initial investment is paid off. That makes a lot of sense. For my switching/encoding it sounds like I'll be going with:

ATEM 2 M/E production switcher
2012 27in iMac (When they finally come out!)
Would you guys suggest buying a large monitor/TV for monitoring feeds or the SmartViews if I can afford 4x dual view and 1x 17in?

Thanks again for all the input/advice! It's extremely appreciated.

To cut 8 cameras together then you don't need the 2ME Panel - the 2ME brain with the 1ME panel will be perfect. Currently the 2ME Panel is not fully functional, and BMD do not have any ability to say if they will ever make all the buttons work let alone when.

The 2 ME Brain has 2 multiviewers built in, I would sugest these should be adequate for monitoring to start with - its a bit annoying that you cannot fully freely assign the multiviewers, but I have tended to use the second me multiview for monitoring the outputs and found this to be very useful. I wouldn't use smart view monitors, use 24" or bigger computer monitors with HDMI.

$30k is extremely tight, it really isn't enough to get 4 decent cameras and tripods, let alone all the switching / mixing hardware.

I would cut down the number of cameras rather than get the cheapest stuff you can find. You can always add more cameras later, justifying upgrading them all again in a years time will be much harder, so don't skimp at the outset.

To cut 8 cameras together then you don't need the 2ME Panel - the 2ME brain with the 1ME panel will be perfect. Currently the 2ME Panel is not fully functional, and BMD do not have any ability to say if they will ever make all the buttons work let alone when.

The 2 ME Brain has 2 multiviewers built in, I would sugest these should be adequate for monitoring to start with - its a bit annoying that you cannot fully freely assign the multiviewers, but I have tended to use the second me multiview for monitoring the outputs and found this to be very useful. I wouldn't use smart view monitors, use 24" or bigger computer monitors with HDMI.

$30k is extremely tight, it really isn't enough to get 4 decent cameras and tripods, let alone all the switching / mixing hardware.

I would cut down the number of cameras rather than get the cheapest stuff you can find. You can always add more cameras later, justifying upgrading them all again in a years time will be much harder, so don't skimp at the outset.

That is some very sound advice- Thanks. After hearing all of your input I'll got with the best/most essential equipment I can purchase with the budget I have and not skimp on quality for quantity. As things progress this leaves room for more modularity and I can scale my production needs as more income is generated from these streams. ATEM 2 brain and ATEM 1 panel sounds like the perfect combination, and monitoring on TV's sounds like an excellent solution.

P.S. Just checked out your site, I no doubt will be pouring over your site for info as I am doing now with this forum! So much knowledge here, it's insane!

One thing to note with monitors is to ensure that your monitors have low latency HDMI inputs. Many domestic TVs have upto half a second of delay on their HDMI input making them impossible to use as preview monitors.

I use computer monitors with HDMI as these screens tend to be much faster to respond. The LG IPS screens are very good for the money.

I hope this helps

cheers
tom

Hi

Thought i would give me 2 cents. Like everyone said $30K is not a lot... I'm in a similar situation and my estimate is coming in around $90,000. So what's important? There are many, many, ways to skin a cat here - and its pretty complicated especially when you are tying to get most bang for your buck...

Quesitons to ask
-What are the broadcast TV requirements?
- Are you recording ISO's of each camera? If so - how will they be stored? Going to need ALOT of space if shooting 1080. Depends on your camera...if you using P2, they are expensive. You will quickly be overwhelmed with storage requirements if there is no plan.
- Recording Linecut? How? KiPro?
- How do you plan on syncing all the cameras? This is for ISO recording - if not keeping isos then dont worry.
- Have you worked with ATEM? Do you like it? (I like a traditional switcher better - and 8 feeds requires expensive switch.
- Live streaming - do you need multiple streams? HD, high, medium, mobile? If yes - can't use laptops - not a laptop out there that can handle 4 streams. Need a PC or tower

Cameras - check out the Panasonic 250. It has TC in and genlock, 21x zoom lens for about $5.5K. Shoots AVC Intra too. But I hate the focus on this thing when zoomed in.... and the picture is just ok. not stellar - but for the price its packs alot. Just have realize the limitations. A 5K camera will not be a like a $30K camera. (oh and that 5K is just cam - no storage, no zoom control rocker, no tripod, no external monitor.

There is a lot to think about here man - your boss has to have a clear goal - Most likely its just for streaming? So gear wise get what you can afford.... Maybe SD is better option. For certain shows, that might go broadcast - you can always rent the higher end gear. Good luck.

For cameras look at Panasonic HPX 170's. SDI output, great in low light, and you can get them pretty cheap now. Around 2-3K each. That is what I use for MMA and concerts. GoPros are very unreliable so be careful when thinking about using them. Mine has been unsatisfactory multiple times. But I did use it for a concert recently and it worked great for a drummer shot.

Here is a link to see my 3 cam shoot with two 170's and a Hero 3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... yvGeTngd80

Where would this event be taken place? For 2/3 of your spending money, i could come over with my equipment and people to do the exact job. We have 10 camera's, switching equipment, audio mixer, communication set, the know how to stream and also the know how to broadcast. Let me know where and when.

Gopro's have also failed me doing gigs also,

I'm using these now,
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/6 ... _Head.html
they cost more but for drummer, keyboard shots they are awesome.

I've been setting them to auto, and they do a pretty good job of just working (they are bigger then a gopro thouch.

Kingsley