Live Production Scaler

Questions about ATEM Switchers, Camera Converter and everything live!
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Jayme McColgan

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Live Production Scaler

PostTue Oct 14, 2014 5:52 pm

we have 2 Panasonic large venue projectors with a native res of 1366x768. our current output resolution of our switcher is 480 NSTC.

we are looking to get a ATEM system and have an output of 720p. whats a good scaler for us to get so we can scale up to the 1366x768 with as little delay as possible...


i hope that makes sense!
Jayme McColgan
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Tom_Bassford

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Re: Live Production Scaler

PostTue Oct 14, 2014 6:51 pm

Panasonic projectors are fairly low latency with their internal scaling.

A Barco image pro is normally what I'd suggest but I suspect your budget will not reach.
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Jayme McColgan

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Re: Live Production Scaler

PostTue Oct 14, 2014 7:08 pm

Tom_Bassford wrote:Panasonic projectors are fairly low latency with their internal scaling.

A Barco image pro is normally what I'd suggest but I suspect your budget will not reach.



that looks like it will work! thank you
Jayme McColgan
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Scott Ryan

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Re: Live Production Scaler

PostWed Oct 15, 2014 3:35 am

Tom_Bassford wrote:Panasonic projectors are fairly low latency with their internal scaling.

A Barco image pro is normally what I'd suggest but I suspect your budget will not reach.

Can you do custom resolutions with Image Pros? I've been looking for something that you can scale height and width to custom resolutions live in a very easy manner such as using a knob.
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Tom_Bassford

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Re: Live Production Scaler

PostWed Oct 15, 2014 9:27 am

You can live stretch the video with an imagepro but not create a custom resolutions such. I'm not sure that I completely understand the question though, what are you wanting to output into? Most devices will either auto sync and glitch or require a defined resolution to sync to on their inputs. Adjusting the actual output resolution is probably not what you want to do. You should probably use something like an image pro which lets you "remap" the image within your predefined output resolution.

Cheers
Tom
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Alberto G. Galaviz

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Re: Live Production Scaler

PostWed Oct 15, 2014 10:48 pm

Hi, you can use the Kramer vp-473 converts the hdsdi signal to vga
Alberto G. Galaviz
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Scott Ryan

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Re: Live Production Scaler

PostThu Oct 16, 2014 1:21 am

Tom_Bassford wrote:You can live stretch the video with an imagepro but not create a custom resolutions such. I'm not sure that I completely understand the question though, what are you wanting to output into? Most devices will either auto sync and glitch or require a defined resolution to sync to on their inputs. Adjusting the actual output resolution is probably not what you want to do. You should probably use something like an image pro which lets you "remap" the image within your predefined output resolution.

Cheers
Tom

Sometimes I have to output to a custom sized video board. The software configuration for these video boards is very confusing. I believe it was Chinese made then poorly translated to English. While it does list the output resolution, this doesn't seem to be correct. Even when I try to calculate the real resolution of the board since I know each board panel is 80x80, nothing ever fits exactly. I figure if I plug my computer into an Image Pro then output that to the video board I can scale it with the turn of a knob.
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Tom_Bassford

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Re: Live Production Scaler

PostSun Oct 19, 2014 7:55 am

OK yeah that is a job for an image pro.

(LED walls running linsn control normally want a 1024x768 signal with the content mapped to be in the top left corner - this is easy with an image pro)

cheers
tom
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Scott Ryan

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Re: Live Production Scaler

PostSun Oct 19, 2014 9:07 am

Tom_Bassford wrote:OK yeah that is a job for an image pro.

(LED walls running linsn control normally want a 1024x768 signal with the content mapped to be in the top left corner - this is easy with an image pro)

cheers
tom

I don't have much experience with our China made video walls, but that is good to know. We've had issues with scaling for IMAG content. If it's abstract "VJ" content then it doesn't really matter. I also work with Daktronics video boards which are a ton easier to configure.

Software for our China video board looks like this:
Image

Image

Is this "linsn control"? I've never heard of this.
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Jonas Bengtson

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Re: Live Production Scaler

PostSun Oct 19, 2014 9:26 am

Scott Ryan wrote:Is this "linsn control"? I've never heard of this.


Hey Scott. There are basically three "competing" brands of LED processor brands. Linsn, Novastar & DBstar. They are basically the same but are different breakout groups from companies forming their own processor software. All software is sadly in a very bad state and it is up to that point that you have to know the limitations of each processor to do a good gig. I sometimes use one because it has some features and vice versa.

None of these support YUV input, is has to be RGB colorspace coming over DVI if you're not buying their poor scaler. The "sendbox" is RGB only.

To produce a good "scaling" for this you would need a separate scaler, the built in software is just pixel to pixel mapping and screen layout setup. The usual "cheap" processor i see around is TV-ONE's "Corio2" series (http://www.tvone.com/high-performance-u ... red-design). Since everyone has it it seems "cheap enough" and the scaling is ok. Doing a lot of VJing on them i also think the added latency is low enough for realtime video work.

I hope this gives you a better idea of the field and good luck with that piece of .... software.
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Scott Ryan

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Re: Live Production Scaler

PostMon Oct 20, 2014 5:49 am

Jonas Bengtson wrote:
Scott Ryan wrote:Is this "linsn control"? I've never heard of this.


Hey Scott. There are basically three "competing" brands of LED processor brands. Linsn, Novastar & DBstar. They are basically the same but are different breakout groups from companies forming their own processor software. All software is sadly in a very bad state and it is up to that point that you have to know the limitations of each processor to do a good gig. I sometimes use one because it has some features and vice versa.

None of these support YUV input, is has to be RGB colorspace coming over DVI if you're not buying their poor scaler. The "sendbox" is RGB only.

To produce a good "scaling" for this you would need a separate scaler, the built in software is just pixel to pixel mapping and screen layout setup. The usual "cheap" processor i see around is TV-ONE's "Corio2" series (http://www.tvone.com/high-performance-u ... red-design). Since everyone has it it seems "cheap enough" and the scaling is ok. Doing a lot of VJing on them i also think the added latency is low enough for realtime video work.

I hope this gives you a better idea of the field and good luck with that piece of .... software.

This does. Thanks for the info. We've been looking into scalers and thought about the BlackMagic Teranex since it's one of the cheaper ones. The Corio2 you listed above seems to be $3500. Wondering if a Teranex would work as well. I know it doesn't have DVI, but I could convert that easily.
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Tom_Bassford

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Re: Live Production Scaler

PostMon Oct 20, 2014 1:59 pm

A teranex is useless for this application as you cannot properly control the size and position of your video image with the teranex.

If you need a really affordable scaler then look at the TVOne 1T-C2-750 - it works well as an LED scaler.

cheers
tom
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Brian Hancock

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Re: Live Production Scaler

PostMon Oct 20, 2014 2:41 pm

you can rent fairly cheaply barco image pro ... which will do what you need we deal with a lot of led setups with these same processors and its really the defacto scaler out there ... analog way has a decent product name escaping me now ... extron may also be somewhere to look BMD does not have or make what you need ...

if your coming straight off a computer you should be able to provide the image size you need ... it gets complicated when adding in a switcher etc ...
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Scott Ryan

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Re: Live Production Scaler

PostTue Oct 21, 2014 6:52 am

Tom_Bassford wrote:A teranex is useless for this application as you cannot properly control the size and position of your video image with the teranex.

If you need a really affordable scaler then look at the TVOne 1T-C2-750 - it works well as an LED scaler.

cheers
tom

So with that TVOne scaler or an Image Pro I would set the input resolution, which would be the resolution I'm sending from my computer, then output would be resolution of the LED wall (some non standard resolution)? What exactly is the process for getting a properly scaled image and getting it to fit correctly?
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Tom_Bassford

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Re: Live Production Scaler

PostTue Oct 21, 2014 10:00 am

No not realy...

Image
is how it works... (obviously the exact number of LED pixels depend on the type of panel - it looks like your screen is 80x80 pixels per panel from your controller software)
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Scott Ryan

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Re: Live Production Scaler

PostWed Oct 22, 2014 7:44 am

Seems like a very odd way to do things, but maybe that's because I learned first on Daktronics LED boards. On those, we have racks with all their own hardware that do everything including redundancy/backup. Pop in SDI, tell it my input signal res and video board size, wire it, export translation table, load it in and pretty much done. Of course price wise they aren't even in the same ballpark as these cheaper panels I've been working with lately (freelancing for 2 different companies with completely different budgets). I will say though Daktronics support is pretty damn awesome. 24/7 and all based in South Dakota. Always helpful.

I'll have to see if we can pick up that scaler you suggested. Would make it a ton easier than what we've been doing...a very dirty method...scaling via picture in picture. :oops:

So source is 1920 x 1080, output is 1024 x 768, but in the scaler you are shrinking the input inside that 1024 x 768? Are you keying into the scaler 350 x 200 for that source inside the 1024 x 768? Is it just a positioning and scaling setting?

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