Church Live Production - So frustrated

Questions about ATEM Switchers, Camera Converter and everything live!
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jamesrobbins

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Church Live Production - So frustrated

PostFri Jun 19, 2015 8:18 pm

Hey everyone,
I'm really frustrated because I have been working on getting my switcher going at my church for a month and I know I'm close but have two main issues stopping me.

Here are the facts:
We are livestreaming our services to a second location. We use Live Stream.
The problem was when we showed a video in our main service it would not show in the streamed location unless we panned the camera up to the screen which is super cheezy and poor quality.
So we bought an ATEM TV Switcher, the basic $1,000 one.

I tried running In
Cannon camera hdmi > switcher
Imac - HDMI (for videos and propresenter) > switcher

Then out
Switcher > Monitor -
Switcher > to Live Stream

Problem #1 - Sound
When I ran the imac hdmi to switcher it would not play sound unless i switched the sound output on the imac to HDMI. But If I did that then the sound would not work for my videos on the projector because the sound used to go straight to the sound board from the computer.

So next I tried
Imac - HDMI > HDMI Splitter ---
---> projector
---> Switcher

The projector worked and I even used a thunderbolt - hdmi adapter to VGA which had an audio out. This helped the sound sort of. It did not pick up all channels but it was at least something.

This also led to problem 2 which was the switcher did not pick up the imac screen feed. I changed out HDMI cables and even tested the feed straight to a monitor and it worked but when hooked up to switcher as an input, it would not show up on my monitor. Before I used the splitter it worked but after using the hdmi splitter it would not come through.

Has anyone done this set up before. This seems like it should be so simple but Im not sure why I cant get it right.

Thanks for anyone taking the time to read this.

James
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Richard Courtney

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Re: Church Live Production - So frustrated

PostSat Jun 20, 2015 12:16 am

HDMI plagued our setup too. When you split HDMI there is information that tells the source what
resolution the monitor (ATEM and projector included) can display.

We purchased an EDID emulator device that can be taught the resolution abilities of the ATEM
and reports that to the Mac so it will stay at that resolution. Gefen HDMI Detective Plus
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=688519&gclid=CIDF6OjznMYCFQupaQod4r0AOg&Q=&m=Y&is=REG&A=details
The EDID info from your projector is ignored by your splitter.

So hookup looks like:
Projector<-----Splitter------>ATEM
_______________^
_______________|
______________EDID
_______________|
______________Mac


It is also important that all sources output at the same resolution and frame rate.
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jamesrobbins

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Re: Church Live Production - So frustrated

PostSat Jun 20, 2015 12:44 pm

OK great, I will try it.

Lastly, how did you connect sound from your mac to your sound board but also have it go to the atem switcher through hdmi?
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TylerRiddle

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Re: Church Live Production - So frustrated

PostSat Jun 20, 2015 11:05 pm

If you aren't going to use a scaler, I'm a Big fan of extron stuff for this use:

http://www.extron.com/mobile/products/p ... e=504#home

Has edid management and splitting in one box. ~400
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jamesrobbins

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Re: Church Live Production - So frustrated

PostSun Jun 21, 2015 1:44 am

Thanks for this help.

What did you do with the sound. I have sound coming out of mac going to sound board but mac makes me pick either headphones output or hdmi output. HDMI wont go to board and if i select headphone, I get sound to board but not to the HDMI stream.


J
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TylerRiddle

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Re: Church Live Production - So frustrated

PostMon Jun 22, 2015 5:15 am

Ok, so typically we run analog audio to the house and then bring it into the video mixer, if your setup requires audio from the HDMI source then you need an audio de-embedder. Here's a cheap one to put on the projector line:

http://www.monoprice.com/mobile/Product ... 412&cpnCd=


Expensive but better one

http://www.extron.com/mobile/products/p ... 0&s=6#home
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Tom_Bassford

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Re: Church Live Production - So frustrated

PostMon Jun 22, 2015 12:28 pm

You can use the audio midi setup utility in OS X to creat a composite device which will allow you to output to HDMI and analog outputs at the same time


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
http://www.atemuser.com
if it was easy it wouldn't be called engineering
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William Vantwoud

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Re: Church Live Production - So frustrated

PostWed Jun 24, 2015 6:53 pm

Hello and I would first off like to thank everyone on these forums for the troubleshooting and help they have provided not only to me but to many others. I have made and am going to continue making videos in regards to the ATEM Television Studio and talk about my experience and try to help others figure out the best situation to use it in! If you are interested or have any questions or topics you would like me to cover please feel free to respond!

Since i'm not allowed to post URLS
The Channel on youtube is "Yesterday Night Live" and the series is called "Tech Talk"

Thanks,
William
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Scott Smith

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Re: Church Live Production - So frustrated

PostThu Jul 02, 2015 2:32 am

Not really supposed to promote other branded products on here, but i am going to, because A) i love these, and B) maybe Blackmagic will take my love for these as a sign that they should make a similar device. As a compromise, I wont paste a link.

Decimator MD-HX.

HDMI in to HDSDI out. HDSDI in to HDMI out. At the same time. With a scaler, as needed. HDMI in can also be routed to HDMI out (or HDSDI in to HDSDI out) through the scaler. This is all in a single, inexpensive, but very well built and designed unit.

PS, this scaler is the only one I've seen on the market that will also change your frame rate as needed for certain things. Lots of computers and such will do 60fps, where my pro video cameras do 59.94 fps. This will convert that as well. The Teranex wont do that. Neither will the AJA FS-1.
Scott R Smith
BMD Stuff I use: ATEM 2-M/E, 4 x ATEM PS 4K, Broadcast Videohub, 6 Hyperdeck Pros, 4 Hyperdeck Shuttles, Multidock, Smartscope Duo, Smartview, Intensity Extreme, Decklink Studio, and lots of Miniconverters and Open Gear Converters.
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Tom_Bassford

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Re: Church Live Production - So frustrated

PostThu Jul 02, 2015 9:38 am

Yes +1 for the MD-HX (or MD-Cross which is the same but with built in test pattern generator)

Really great little box which does a whole load of useful conversions - only thing missing from it is support for Level B 3G SDI but like who uses that (right Blackmagic? lol)

I own a lot of converters of various types and the decimator is the one i always carry as 99% of the time it can fix the round peg square hole issue that nobody had foreseen on the gig. An ImagePro is better, but then an ImagePro costs 50x what the MD-HX costs.
http://www.atemuser.com
if it was easy it wouldn't be called engineering
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Matt Williamson

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Re: Church Live Production - So frustrated

PostWed Jul 08, 2015 3:55 am

Feed an audio output from your mixing console into the camera audio input. That audio will then be feed into atem and onto the live stream.
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Justin Lee

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Re: Church Live Production - So frustrated

PostSun Jul 12, 2015 2:37 pm

You can simultaneously output to two audio devices on a Mac. It's so easy to do your gonna hate me for not keeping up with the forums. ;)

Today we're going to learn about alternative menus on the Mac and how to configure audio this way.

Just follow this step by step
-Press and Hold the [option] key on the keyboard.
-Bring the cursor to the audio icon(volume control icon) on the top right of the screen.
-You will see a list of input and output items and what's active based on
-Select the output that you want to add to play with the current output.
-[this works based on limitations of the output ability of the device.] HDMI and Headphones should be able to be selected simultaneously.

I'll also throw in the tip that alt feature can be used to select which monitor output you want mirrored in a 3 or more display setup.
-Under display settings, arrangement tab
-Hold alt key then click and drag the display icon you want to mirror to the display icon you want to mirror off of.


The ideal professional solution for a live stream for church would be to do all the audio mixing on the mixer under a sub master and output that to one of the camera's XLR inputs so timing is also in sync with video for the stream. Just remember to set the switcher audio input for that camera on the software control audio mixer. Live listening vs recording/broadcast listening sounds very different so best to not use a main mix for broadcast.

Hope this helps. :)

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