Video routing with Decklink Duo

Hy Forum!

Please be forgiving if i post some totally stupid stuff. I'm a total newbie.

I'm trying to get a life broadcasting with ustream on the way.
I would like to broadcast presentations and talks.

My setup would be:

2x consumer camcorders with HDMI out + 2x Mini Converters HDMI to SDI.
1x presentation laptop running Powerpoint or Keynote + 1x DVI Extender (maybe a Mini Converter HDMI to SDI also works?? Pros & Cons?)
1x Mac Pro with 2x Decklink Duo

Connect these 3 video sources to the Decklink Duo cards on the Mac.

1x beamer with HDMI in + 1x Mini Converter SDI to HDMI
Connect one output of one Decklink Duo of the Mac to the beamer

Now I would like to use all 3 sources to broadcast in Ustream Producer Pro --> so far so good...ustream should do it.
But I would also like to route either of these 3 sources simultaneously to the output to which the beamer is connected --> is this possible? If yes, which software can i use?

I hope my listing is informative enough.

Many thanks in advance!

Regards,
Michael

why not ATEM TVS ?

Hy!

Thanks for the fast response.

The ATEM TVS is no option as far as I can judge.

The TVS has indeed 6 independent video inputs. But only one "Program Output".
Since I would like to use the PIP capabilities of ustream, I need all sources connected to the computer.

The TVS can supply the "Program Output" via USB 2.0 as a H.264 stream, but ustream can not use this.
And it would permit to use the PIP functionality.
The connectivity to the beamer, with routing of the three sources, would also not be possible.

If anyone can tell me, that I can route the inputs and outputs of the Decklink Duo via software (which software), it would bring me a step further.

Thanks,
Michael

P.S.: Please excuse my english. It's not my mother tongue.

You cannot "route", as such, using Decklink cards.

Also a Duo is only two channels. Not 2 inputs simultaneously with 2 outputs. So you could only route one input to one output with a Duo anyway.

Each Decklink Channel is treated as a separate device. The Duo and Quad cards appear as multiple single channels. There is nothing stopping you reading frames from one card and scheduling them to be delivered out using another or multiple outputs, so with custom software, you could put up to 8 cards in a machine (4 Duos or 2 Quads), and "kind-of" route the video around, but I know of no software that lets you do that easily.

With TVS, you could use Program and Preview to provide you two hot-cut outputs, and with a 1ME you could also use the AUX outputs. Then you can ingest two streams into your Duo card and manage the separate uncompressed streams in the uStream solution.

I'm not sure "routing" is really a term that is particularly meaningful when applied to video after it is on the PCIe bus, it really just all data in memory. However it's worth saying that whether using the NativeSDK or DirectShow/Quicktime APIs, only one application can "take control" of any one Decklink card/channel.

Cheers

John

Hy John,

thank you for the extensive answer.

You are right, "routing" is probably not the right term. But you got my idea:
Stream one input to any other.

Anyway, so you say that, if ustream has control of the channels, no other software can use them for "routing" (copying frames)? I hoped that it is like in Linux, that the input channels are like files and many programs could read from it simultaneously. For outputs it is clear that only one program is allowed to write to it.

And just to understand you: If i would have software that opens both channels, reads a frame from channel 1 input and copy it to a output, can i copy it to each channels output?

EDIT:
I was looking at the ATEM TVS, it has just the Program out (HDMI and SDI) and the Multiview out (HDMI and SDI).
The SDI BNC program out has two BNC connectors. I assume that they provide the same content by design and cannot be used as separate outputs?
The multi view output always displays the grid showing all inputs?

Cheers,
Michael

Michael,

Anything is possible!

But...... I've not used Decklinks much on Linux, and never they way you suggest as using Device File IO.

"Most" (term used very loosely) generic software on Windows will use DirectShow and on Apple will use Quicktime to access Decklink. I'm not really an expert on Media Streaming over the internet, and I'm not certain how uStream captures from hardware devices, but I would not be at all surprised if it took an exclusive lock on the input devices you were telling it to capture from.

If you have three Decklink cards, then you can read frames captured from Card A, and schedule those frames on Cards B and C. But with only one Duo card, you only have two channels, not Four. Each channel can be in input mode or output mode, but not both at the same time. There is a small caveat to that, in that, with some Decklink cards internal keying is possible, but this is NOT really the Input and Output active at the same time, it's overlaying your output on top of what is being input, with no access to the input buffer.

It's also worth noting copying frames around like this will introduce latency. The Decklink cards do have an "operate in a low-latency mode", and I know guys who have got their software processing of data from one card, and out of another with latency as low as 4 frames. I normally ensure I have my buffers loaded with more than 6 frames, but all these latencies are significant when compared to the ATEMs.

CasparCG might do what you need out the box, but the configuration of multiple input channels and multiple output channels is not trivial, and I can't think of a similar tool for OSX, although I'm sure something must exist.

Good Luck with your project

John

EDIT: Sorry also should have said, I was wrong about the TVS having a preview out, don't know where I got that idea. You'd need at least a 1ME so you'd then have 5 independently switch-able SDI outputs: Program / Preview and 3 AUXs.

Thanks John!!

Now I see, each channel is either an input or an output. That makes sense now.

Ok so, I'm now throwing the whole project over. Since the Decklink cards don't do what i thought.

The question now is, how do I get two SDI inputs for a MacBook.
Two UltraStudio SDI USB 3.0 are a little bit expensive.
Two UltraStudio Mini Recorders cannot be connected since there is only one Thunderbolt port.

Can the ATEM VTS do PIP of two input channels?

Sorry for the mess. I'm trying to get a reasonable priced (since we are a nonprofit association), maximum versatile solution. I don't want to buy gear for the first solution and then if it grows, throw everything out and buy new stuff.

I'm really happy that this forum exists.

Thanks,
Michael

Michael,

Only the 1ME and 2ME ATEMs have a DVE which is required to do a "Picture in Picture" properly. The DVE is pretty good on the 1/2ME ATEMs, in my opinion.

It's difficult to make further recommendations without a detailed & precise specification of everything you both want to achieve now, and are likely to want to do in the next 36 months or so. Investing in an ATEM may or may not be the most cost effective solution.

Cheers

John

Hy John,

I will do further investigations and planing.
Probably a ATEM 1M/E is a very good solution.

Thank you for your time!

Cheers,
Michael