Advice solicited: Live production with ATEM 1 - input issues

Morning all:

My company produces live video shows for sports events and I have been contemplating adding an ATEM 1 M/E system to the family for an annual event coming up in late March. This show drives video exclusively to a single SD jumbotron (giant screen) as well as several HDMI/Component TV monitors.

Up until lately I had decided against one due for the most part because of the numerous issues raised on this forum. With the recent release of 3.5 it sounds encouraging enough to revisit, so here is our rather simple setup (and its attendant problems relating to matched inputs on the ATEM):

- Input 1: Line cut from the ski race course, HD 1080i/60 (95% certain it's "i", can confirm)

- input 2: Keyable and fullscreen graphics from Ross Xpression via Matrox DVI converter, output format can be matched to input 1 (SDI, CV, 59.95/60 etc)

- input 3: Prerecorded commercials, features, and other content, usually preinstalled on an ipad (analog) but may also look at an Android tablet for HDMI-out

- input 4: spare, often used for last minute DVD's via analog player or other source

As you can see this is a pretty typical remote installation, with analog, digital, SD and HD formats all over the place. Up until now we have used a simple Datavideo HS500 Studio that has been great, but it's SD and I wouldn't mind delivering to the full capability of the HDMI monitors while perhaps dropping downconverted SD to the jumbotron.

With the audio-stripping problem of the HDMI-in on the ATEM, I can't simply connect an Android tablet filled with perfectly recorded commercials, I guess I'd have to route the tablet's HDMI & audio thru an analog breakout into the ATEM's analog-IN.

The numerous conversion issues that this scenario presents, forces me to consider that the ATEM may not be the right solution, in fact I may simply continue with the Datavideo and an HDMI upconversion to the monitors unless I am overcomplicating the above solution.

Any bright ideas?!

Cheers
Andrew

With the audio-stripping problem of the HDMI-in on the ATEM, I can't simply connect an Android tablet filled with perfectly recorded commercials, I guess I'd have to route the tablet's HDMI & audio thru an analog breakout into the ATEM's analog-IN.

Which audio stripping problem you mean?

The "only" problem with the embedded HDMI-audio is that the video is delayed by up to two frames compared to the audio.

The "only" problem with the embedded HDMI-audio is that the video is delayed by up to two frames compared to the audio.

Hmm, I guess I misinterpreted the specs? (from B&H website):
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/7 ... ction.html

"Product Highlights
(8) Inputs - (4) HDMI, (4) HD/SD-SDI
Passes Video Only/Strips Embedded Audio"

I would then need to route the source's audio-out thru a separate mixer (which is what I do now with the Datavideo's onboard but physically separate audio mixer).

Audio issues aside, the main irritant here is the need for several expensive upstream format converters in order to achieve compliance with the matched-input restriction.

At the end of the day the ATEM appears a (potentially) miraculous yet inexpensive product for specific uses, ideally when using a batch of identical inputs like cameras. Unfortunately does not sound ideal for my proposed use. Something like a GVG Indigo is what I need. For $10k more!

As always, it appears you still get what you pay for

They should update their specs.
The ATEM started without audio support, but it was added from firmware 2.8 upwards.

At the end of the day the ATEM appears a (potentially) miraculous product for specific uses, ideally when using a batch of identical inputs like cameras. Unfortunately does not sound ideal for my proposed use. Something like a GVG Indigo is what I need. For $10k more!

There you go, the ATEM is a great bang for the buck, but you cannot expect it to do it all.
I don't see such a big problem though, the first two inputs can be matched easy, the playout can be resolved another way.
With an atlona or a tvone 1T you can create a format converter quite cheap that will give you the possibility to input anything into the ATEM.
All with all it is not that hard to come up with a solution much cheaper than the indigo which will work fine.

With an atlona or a tvone 1T you can create a format converter quite cheap that will give you the possibility to input anything into the ATEM.
All with all it is not that hard to come up with a solution much cheaper than the indigo which will work fine.

Thanks Mathijs, some good info on those boxes, might be worth looking into. Have you tried them ? How's the output quality for the upscaling?

Cheers

I use tvone products myself, but I see multiple ATEM users that use the atlona products on the forums.
The quality of the tvone products I use is ok. It's not excellent like upscaling with a teranex, but it does the job.
I've got a 1T-VS-558 that converts anything it gets on the input to 1080i, so I can input a laptop quite easy. Besides that I have two C2-2200A units that I use to input anything or output data resolutions from the ATEM. Of course the C2 unit is a better performer than the 1T.

It would also be a nice idea for BMD to develop a unit like the imagepro, that's definately something everyone would want.

It would also be a nice idea for BMD to develop a unit like the imagepro, that's definately something everyone would want.

Yep! I've started a thread on this a while ago... Perhaps you and many more can sign this and we will get a reply from BMD.
http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3716

I am coming closer to ordering the ATEM, now that an Atlona LINE Pro-2 seems to be an economical solution for my input formats problems (iPad etc).

Anyone have any comments about working with the embedded audio on the Atlona scaler's upconverted HDMI-out port? To explain better: the iPad-IN to the ATEM is the only input where we require audio sync (all audio for the other inputs is completely external). The iPad is used to playout commercials and other produced features; the Atlona box converts the iPad video/audio into the 1080i HDMI output, then the ATEM would presumably port the audio to the XLR-outs, which we would then run through our audio mixer?

Any delay issues? I've heard murmurs of frame delays...

Thanks

The ATEM will add about a frame of delay to the video.
Delay has been widely discussed on this forum and at Atemuser.com

If you are scaling the input before the ATEM it is likely that this will add at least a few frames of delay.

Tim

It is possible to configure the atem audio output in monitor mode, so you can send audio coming from sources to it, run that trough a mixer/delay and embed the mixer again into the SDI/HDMI outputs of the ATEM trough the audio inputs.
So when the atlona passes the audio trough, you would have no problem getting the rest of the chain right.