BMD Television Studio HD

While watching the promo material and the hand book of the new TVS HD.
I must say i'm very impress with what BMD has done with this product

Design, Portable and nice
Features, added lots of features that the small broadcaster needed, but was only on the bigger devices.
Connections, love the 8 inputs, and the Aux
Control, i love the option that you can do the basic switching on the device, just in case you forgot the laptop home (jokingly)

While i was viewing the SDI outputs 5,6,7,8, i was already thinking even though they were meant for talkback etc with BMD Cameras, i already was thinking that they can also be use for additional output, but then it dawn upon me, that those outputs might be related to the cameras connected to SDI Input 5,6,7,8, so basically for the guys that can't afford BMD cameras, they can only be use for ISO recording of cameras 5,6,7,8 and nothing else, i sure bet thought they were PGM output, but i have a strong feeling they are not.

Really missing a HDMI output, which could have been used to connect to a live streaming encoder, so for now i'll be using a S2H convertor. Tking note of the only one PGM output, which needs to go to a monitor, encoder and recorder.

One now has some difficult decisions to make, i don't mind putting the Monitor output on a splitter, but since Live Streaming and Recording is mainly my most important objectives, i hate putting those on a splitter, So in a case like this i believe a workflow will be PGM will goto the Recorder BMD Hyperdek Mini, and then from there via HDMI to a monitor...that leaves me with the AUX output, which can then be use for the Livestream, off cause, if no live stream is involved, i can always use the AUX for other options.

What i do, and really do miss from this device, is an AUDIO out, there is no way to evaluate the audio, the BMD Hyperdeck Mini also has no audio output, i currently use the BMD TVS, and in order for me to make sure audio gets to the Switcher correctly and leaves correct, i test it on my ATOMOS NINJA, which is connected to the PGM out of the TVS...this way i know the audio is good, i can test it on the Mixer before it goes in to the BMD, but prefer my test is done on the final output (switcher). I do see a headphone on the TVS HD, however i do believe that's only use for the Talkback feature, would be nice, if they can have a ENABLE/DISABLE switch for that headphone out, which can be use for Talkback and/or Audio out..

I'm planning to buy the TVS HD and the HyperDeck Mini, so i know will have to find means to test the audio on the output, in this case, i think my only choice would be on the Monitor that i connect to the Hyperdeck Mini, then i can hear everything in the last chain..

Anyone has purchase the TVS HD/Hyperdeck Mini, and ready to share their findings..
as soon as it shows up in B&H as ready for sale, i'll make the order

Something you may want to consider to get more PGM outputs is the Teranex Mini SDI Distribution 12G. This will take a single SDI input and send it out the 8 SDI outputs on the Distribution unit. So, if you run your PGM out of the ATEM TV HD and into the SDI Distribution 12G, you'll in essence get up to 8 PGM out ports that will allow you to send your PGM feed to a wide variety of devices.

The SDI Distribution 12G is the same size as the HyperDeck Mini and will fit in the same rack with the other Teranex Mini, HyperDeck Mini, and ATEM TV HD devices.

As for audio monitoring, one option could be to use the ATEM Software Control that runs on a MAC / PC laptop and is used to manage the ATEM TV HD. It has monitoring functionality so you can hear the various camera audio / XLR channels coming into the switch as well as what it is sending out.

Another option would be to look at the BM Audio Monitor, which, of course, would need to be connected to the PGM output on the ATEM TV HD. It has SDI In and SDI Loop Out, so that you could in essence pass-through your PGM output from the ATEM through the Audio Monitor to your final destination, be it an SDI Distribution 12G or other end device. This would allow you to monitor your audio while at the same time giving you the ability to send your PGM feed to multiple devices.

As for purchasing... yes, I ordered the ATEM TV HD, Web Presenter, and HyperDeck Mini from Adorama the day the products were announced. They have shipped and I am anxiously awaiting their arrival this Friday...

Sold my TVS on Tuesday and ordered TVS HD today but Australia not yet showing stock. Waiting on ETA

What i do, and really do miss from this device, is an AUDIO out, there is no way to evaluate the audio, the BMD Hyperdeck Mini also has no audio output, i currently use the BMD TVS, and in order for me to make sure audio gets to the Switcher correctly and leaves correct, i test it on my ATOMOS NINJA, which is connected to the PGM out of the TVS...this way i know the audio is good, i can test it on the Mixer before it goes in to the BMD, but prefer my test is done on the final output (switcher). I do see a headphone on the TVS HD, however i do believe that's only use for the Talkback feature, would be nice, if they can have a ENABLE/DISABLE switch for that headphone out, which can be use for Talkback and/or Audio out..

Just re-watched part of Grant's presentation on the new ATEM TV HD. At about 24:36 in the presentation, he mentions a couple of things about audio with the new device. First is that you can do commentary via the microphone jack on the front of the switcher. So if you have a headset with microphone connected, there is a 'mic' channel in the audio mixer that would allow you to use that front panel microphone jack for an audio input. He then goes on to say, and this is more to your question above, that the '... headset speakers can be used for program monitoring.', so you can monitor program audio by plugging in headphones to the headphone jack on the front of the switch.

Yes, but you are going to need an "aircraft" style 1/4 plug on the headphones (same locking type used in audio patch panels), or an adapter cable going fro a female 1/4 TRS jack to a aircraft locking 1/4 plug.
Also, is the headphone out a stereo TRS or mono T/S jack?

and this is more to your question above, that the '... headset speakers can be used for program monitoring.', so you can monitor program audio by plugging in headphones to the headphone jack on the front of the switch.

Good pick up Brett, i re-watched it and indeed he did mention it.

Also Denny, i do have those nice heavy duty Comm head sets from Datavideo which uses the regular jack, i'm 100% sure someone has some kind of jack converter from that "aircraft style" connector.
i will start researching such convertor if needed in deed...

But this is already good news in the right direction, i can use a headset, of just plug it into a speaker so the entire production team can hear what's going on...

I'm gonna love this new version..

BM really has packed a lot of functionality into the ATEM TV HD... a lot of features that appear on their higher end M/E switches. It will further expand the lower end of the market and open up affordable live streaming options to a much broader range of potential clients and customers, even allowing businesses to bring live streaming in-house in many cases.

With all this power in such a small package, I'm looking forward to seeing what's next with BM's higher end line of M/E switchers... Just a couple months to NAB!

This looks to be a great little unit.

A nice feature would have been to have scaling on at least some of the inputs. I realise this would ramp the cost up though.

It is almost the perfect form factor to replace Kramer / TV-one switchers in the various conference rooms at a venue but for the lack of scaling.
That seems like another market BMD could open up.

Having these in the small rooms at our venue would be great. Typical inputs are laptops, video playback as well as relay from the main auditorium. The ability to see the input / output on screen as well as networked control makes it ideal and opens up lots of possibilities.
But the thought of trying to explain to clients (over the phone) how to get the correct resolution and refresh rate on their laptop is a painful one! I've done that too many of those calls!

Tim

This looks to be a great little unit.

A nice feature would have been to have scaling on at least some of the inputs. I realise this would ramp the cost up though.

It is almost the perfect form factor to replace Kramer / TV-one switchers in the various conference rooms at a venue but for the lack of scaling.
That seems like another market BMD could open up.

Having these in the small rooms at our venue would be great. Typical inputs are laptops, video playback as well as relay from the main auditorium. The ability to see the input / output on screen as well as networked control makes it ideal and opens up lots of possibilities.
But the thought of trying to explain to clients (over the phone) how to get the correct resolution and refresh rate on their laptop is a painful one! I've done that too many of those calls!

Tim

It would be great but then some would complain about inconsistent delay on inputs... or other things, like price jump...

In my opinion solutions are already there and at very competitive price. For example Decimator MD-HX can do all the scaling needed to pre programmed resolution/frame rate and much more for very good price.


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Upon reviewing the unit, i see some minor issues, that can cost some issues probably in the long run..
The heat vents are on the left and right side, of which both sides you can stack next to another unit or the other mini devices, this means, heat form one unit will be pushed into the other unit.

what can be worst is if it next to the side of the rack, the hot air, will be bouncing back into the vents which can lead to over heating, vents should have been to the back, would have make cooling much efficient.

We had some beamers placed in security cages, the cages were made base on a proof model, however when we finally made the purchase, the newer models, had a change in the vents, the vents were then put to the front, where the proof model, the vents were to the bottom and side, so we put vents in the cages for the sides...
we didn't put not vents on the front, after a few months of running, we realized a bunch of the beamers were constantly shutting down after hours of usage, we had months trying to find out why, upgrade firmware, change setting etc..
One day while doing some repairs on one of the beamers, we noted that the front of the cage was very wam, when we check better we say the had some small vents in a 45degree on the front bottom, which was blowing hot air to the gate, which then bounce back that heat to the beamer. after we saw this, we decided to leave the cage doors open, and problem was solved..

i hope this don't be the issue with these devices, as i'm already ready to puchase one alone with the MINI Recorder, my newly designed flight case (Pelican 1525), which i was building for the DataVideo SE1200, is will not be able to stack them on each other, so have to go side by side, so i hope i don't have no issues.
1 only have space for 2 Rack units, one will be a DataVideo ITC-100 comms....
don't want to make the case to heavy

Upon reviewing the unit, i see some minor issues, that can cost some issues probably in the long run..
The heat vents are on the left and right side, of which both sides you can stack next to another unit or the other mini devices, this means, heat form one unit will be pushed into the other unit.

what can be worst is if it next to the side of the rack, the hot air, will be bouncing back into the vents which can lead to over heating, vents should have been to the back, would have make cooling much efficient.

I'm certainly not an engineer by any stretch, however BM actually touts the venting / airflow as a feature of these products, and calls it out with their Tereanex Mini designs. It seems as though they put specific thought into thermal venting and very intentionally designed the airflow from side to side:

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/teranexmini - about 1/2 way down the page.

Again, I'm no engineer, but I'm thinking that if they are promoting this as a feature, that they did a fair bit of due diligence on the design and thought through the thermal issues and felt that the side venting was the best approach given the form factor.

I've got a pair of Multiview 4's and a Teranex HDMI-SDI all racked up together side by side and have never had any thermal issues with their usage.

Great, great,
I'm starting to feel better now, that you didn't had no issues with the current models..

Can't wait for shipping date..

The sideways heat flow is a stupid design. They can make as many pretty graphics about it as they want but the net result of racking 3 of these things together is the one on the right hand side will get the heat output of the other two forced into its vents.

Can't wait for shipping date..

They are already shipping... some folks have them in hand, mine is scheduled to arrive today.

I've been scratching my head trying to figure out the actual supported resolution for inputs and outputs. Whats listed on the front product page "1080p 60" vs whats listed on the specs page has kept me from pulling the trigger on one of these.

Grant seemed to fumble over the resolution in the announcement video too, which left me more confused. Can these take a 60 frame 1080p signal on HDMI and SDI inputs, and output 1080p 60 on the program out?

Thanks y'all.

I've been scratching my head trying to figure out the actual supported resolution for inputs and outputs. Whats listed on the front product page "1080p 60" vs whats listed on the specs page has kept me from pulling the trigger on one of these.

Grant seemed to fumble over the resolution in the announcement video too, which left me more confused. Can these take a 60 frame 1080p signal on HDMI and SDI inputs, and output 1080p 60 on the program out?

Thanks y'all.

I have it in front of me now.. It does 1080P50 and 1080P 59.94 No 1080P60 in the menu at this moment.. But the bigger Atems also don't have the P60 feature.. They all go up to P59.94

Correct, The new ATEM, does 1080p59.94, input and output (which match, will not up/down scale). ATEM switchers do not support full 60fps, but rather the broadcast standard of 59.94fps.
BM posted supported HD resolutions are (from Tech Spec on BM Product page):

HD Format Support
720p50, 720p59.94
1080p23.98, 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p29.97, 1080p50, 1080p59.94,
1080i50, 1080i59.94

Is 60p even a real thing? What outputs 60p rather than 59.94??

I'm really glad to be European sometimes!


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Some Non broadcast consumer and prosumer cameras (including some BM cameras, like the icro cameras) in 60Hz land can record/output full 1080p 30/60, rather than the broadcast standard 29.97/59.94.
Cheers

Apple's laptops like to output at 60p.

If i remember correctly HDMI input 1 is 60P compatible...

But for laptops on sdi converters you need to have a converter that can handle this and output normal broadcast standards. Like teranex mini can convert 60 to 59,94 and Decimator MD-HX are also livesavers in this..

Yes, but you are going to need an "aircraft" style 1/4 plug on the headphones (same locking type used in audio patch panels), or an adapter cable going fro a female 1/4 TRS jack to a aircraft locking 1/4 plug.
Also, is the headphone out a stereo TRS or mono T/S jack?

Aircraft style headphones use standard 1/4in (6.35mm) TRS jack (so you can use any regular headset) and special .206in (5.25mm) TRS jack for the microphone

see more info here :

http://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstor ... -plugs.asp

In my opinion solutions are already there and at very competitive price. For example Decimator MD-HX can do all the scaling needed to pre programmed resolution/frame rate and much more for very good price.

what would be great would be a teranex mini shaped blackmagic version of the MD-HX

This looks to be a great little unit.

A nice feature would have been to have scaling on at least some of the inputs. I realise this would ramp the cost up though.

It is almost the perfect form factor to replace Kramer / TV-one switchers in the various conference rooms at a venue but for the lack of scaling.
That seems like another market BMD could open up.

Having these in the small rooms at our venue would be great. Typical inputs are laptops, video playback as well as relay from the main auditorium. The ability to see the input / output on screen as well as networked control makes it ideal and opens up lots of possibilities.
But the thought of trying to explain to clients (over the phone) how to get the correct resolution and refresh rate on their laptop is a painful one! I've done that too many of those calls!

Tim

It would be great but then some would complain about inconsistent delay on inputs... or other things, like price jump...

In my opinion solutions are already there and at very competitive price. For example Decimator MD-HX can do all the scaling needed to pre programmed resolution/frame rate and much more for very good price.


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Yep true, it would need to be switchable to avoid delay, although the majority of complaints I have seen for the tvs are people that can't get their laptop / mac to show.

Personally I've always managed to get sources working on our 1ME and would never request scaling on the other models but just seems like a good fit with this one.
For example already over on the Blue Room it is being suggested as a good option for a room switcher but for the lack of scaling http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=68697
I would consider installing three of these for our venue but adding two MD-HX or DAC70s per room (one for VGA input and one for HDMI) soon adds significant cost.

Tim

Is 60p even a real thing? What outputs 60p rather than 59.94??

I'm really glad to be European sometimes!


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Production Audio Visual (event staging) shows often run at 1080p 60. As someone operating on both sides of the content creation and content playback paradigm, I cant really buy this until it has that FR. Its a shame because in many ways it crushes our defacto small show standard, the PDS 902 3G.

I've been scratching my head trying to figure out the actual supported resolution for inputs and outputs. Whats listed on the front product page "1080p 60" vs whats listed on the specs page has kept me from pulling the trigger on one of these.

Grant seemed to fumble over the resolution in the announcement video too, which left me more confused. Can these take a 60 frame 1080p signal on HDMI and SDI inputs, and output 1080p 60 on the program out?

Thanks y'all.

I have it in front of me now.. It does 1080P50 and 1080P 59.94 No 1080P60 in the menu at this moment.. But the bigger Atems also don't have the P60 feature.. They all go up to P59.94

Thank you for checking it out Much obliged. If this gets added in a SW update I'll be the first in line.

Does the new TVS HD have a h.264 encoder output via the USB, like the original TVS has? Or are you gong to need a h.264 Recorder to capture videomto a computer?
Saw a comment about this, but can not find it now. Spec sheet does not list it either.
Cheers

There is no H264 encoder in the new TVS

That is what I thought, thanks Tom.
Cheers

I have a question about audio. When using the old ATEM TVS audio run through an analog mixer was then required to be run through something like the Behringer Ultracurve Pro not only to convert it to digital, but also to impose a delay on that audio to match up with the video frame.

My question is this...Since the new Television Studio HD has analog output, does audio run from an analog mixer line up directly with the video, or is something like the ultracurve pro still necessary? I know it is not necessary to convert to digital audio, but the audio lineup would be a bit of a headache if were were broadcasting a school concert or something and the mouth was not matching the audio. Also, if I were to match this up with the web broadcaster, would it then still add yet another mismatch when compressing the video signal?

I am starting a SMALL broadcast studio in my elementary and my funds are EXTREMELY limited, meaning we will not be running cameras large enough to carry the audio. I may not have a ton of funds, but I plan on making it the absolute best I can without overspending.

The audio delay / offset issue is pretty overhyped. Very few people can see a 1 frame offset, and i'd very much recommend trying the switcher without external audio delay to see if you are happy with the results before rushing to fix a problem which few people can really notice.

My question is this...Since the new Television Studio HD has analog output... Dan

Dan, you mean Audio analog "input". The new TVS only has an analog audio input. This is a new item, only a few, if any units inmuse yet. So far no one has commented about audio/Video sync issues. Since this was a problem in the old TVS, I would think BM has so,bed the problem in this new version. Grant said, the audio was upgraded, the replaced the digital audio input with a analog XLR line input, so my "guess" would be the sync issue was fixed also.
Cheers

[Gary Adams]

I will offer some thoughts about the audio and video paths through all ATEM switchers. If the audio comes from the camera (source), it is usually compensated for image delay through the camera and will pass through the ATEM in the same time frame as the video. Any timing change (which is always less than a frame except for DVE) will affect both the video and audio that rides along. So they will be in sync out of the switcher. Note, the overall image delay from light to SDI out of the switcher may be more than the ATEM delay because cameras and scalers often used will always add more delay. If the output of the ATEM goes to a monitor or projection, there will be additional delay due to the scaling in those devices. It is not uncommon to have from 2-4 frames of overall video delay in a typical setup. The external analog audio does not have a delay in the atem or through audio consoles so it will always be ahead of the video signal. It is not uncommon to add the same 2-4 frames of delay in the analog audio for this reason. This has very little to do with the switcher but overall the time builds up. Some users like to feed their analog audio through a camera to compensate for this while others will put adjustable delay in the analog audio to time things as they want. As Tom says, it's very difficult for most of us to see a frame of delay. Two frames maybe, but add that third frame or more and it is noticeable to all. The best advice I can give is to genlock cameras and switcher. That will eliminate any delay in the switcher. Hope this helps.

Regards, Gary

Thanks Gary that is a good explanation

people might like to read this old Echolab document on the topic too
http://www.atemuser.com/sites/default/f ... gement.pdf

Put in the simplest terms there is not now and never has been a significant problem with AV sync and the ATEM. The ATEM works in exactly the same way as every other hardware broadcast switcher. People have spent a huge amount of time focusing on a "problem" that is easily worked around and frankly for many simply is not even noticeable. Most people seeing significant AV offset issues are looking at IMAG applications where the delay is an issue, but it is not caused by the ATEM.

As a side note the multiviewer (like the DVE) is +1 frame due to the scaling and positioning of the subwindows. Many domestic TVs add a significant delay to their HDMI inputs too, I've seen cases where people were saying they had terrible lip sync problems because they were looking at their multiviewer not their program output.

All this being said, wouldn't a built-in audio delay be an incredibly useful feature for almost every user?

No *most* users have no need of delay as most users are switching for records or streaming.

adding the expense + confusion of audio delay wouldn't help. It's really easy (and cheap) to get an analog audio delay for people who actually need it (it's built into the majority of audio mixers that would be used on shows where it matters)

If you had audio delay then people would get really confused.. They would delay the audio to match on their multiviewer and then complain it was out of sync on the recording. Or they would use different types of cameras and complain that they couldn't have a variable delay to match the current shot.

I think having an available delay on the external audio input is a more than reasonable request.

The "expense" must be miniscule given the processing for 1080p video DVE, a 2ch audio delay is a joke.

Bury the settings somewhere where people who don't understand it, never touch it, so it's like it's not even there. I don't agree at all with your argument.

Asking a house sound engineer to delay a your specific output feed a certain number of ms is not always easy to achieve. If you bring 2 mics and a preamp, now you need a delay too just for basic quality audio. Having it built-in would be very handy, that's all I'm saying. Having to bring an entire extra piece of gear for something so basic is annoying, BM always touts how portable their gear is, this has been a request from day one of the original TVS, the fact they couldn't do it is maddening.

How long should the delay be in your opinion?


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Adjustable from 0-6 frames would probably cover it.

The ATEM itself only adds a maximum of 1 frame of delay though. Why do you want a device that will put your lipsync out? It sounds very much like you are expecting to be able to fix issues caused by external devices, which again are not really issues if you design your production properly.

To all intents and purposes the audio coming into the ATEM is already in sync - if you listen to the output via an display with embedded audio support you'll see that the ATEM audio is lipsynced.

It's only when people start looking at video on monitors and listening via a direct feed that they think there are sync issues. This is a user error, not a problem worthy of a hardware fix.

In the small number of cases where there is a genuine sync issue which can be fixed by audio delay then the video mixer is not really the right place to add this delay. There are plenty of products on the market which can delay audio starting prices are significantly under $100. People who ACTUALLY need to delay their sound can easily and cheaply do so.

Adding functions which encourage bad practice and are confusing for users is not a sensible suggestion.

I originally posted this question in relation to the difference between the old TVS and the new HD. I also was a bit concerned after watching the original stream from the product announcement when the audio delay was a little more than obvious as well as the color looking to be log. I also wonder if running from the studio HD through the webcaster would induce yet another frame or two of delay from the same audio. Just trying to get all of my ducks in a row. I was also considering something like an epiphan or magewell grabber to grab the sdi out of the studio HD as they are able to grab up to 1080p60 allowing me to have equipment to prepare me for the future a bit.

Sidenote...yes I did mean input in my earlier post.

"It's only when people start looking at video on monitors and listening via a direct feed that they think there are sync issues. This is a user error, not a problem worthy of a hardware fix. "

No, actually, it's when I look at and listen to my program out and the video is 5 frames out of sync with the external audio being embedded from the ATEM's external audio input. The Canon cameras I use have a 4 frame output delay, and the ATEM adds another. This has NOTHING to do with monitors, and everything to do with solving a very common problem.

"To all intents and purposes the audio coming into the ATEM is already in sync - if you listen to the output via an display with embedded audio support you'll see that the ATEM audio is lipsynced. "

So what if the camera audio is in sync? Most people use an external mixer for real audio, and want to use the external audio input, and in that scenario, there needs to be a way to fix the sync. Period.

"In the small number of cases where there is a genuine sync issue which can be fixed by audio delay then the video mixer is not really the right place to add this delay."

The VAST majority of TVS users are using prosumer cameras, all of which have some sort of delay on their outputs, it would be a really nice feature to be able to correct that when using external audio through the switcher. The switcher is where the external audio is being embedded in to the signal, it's BY FAR the most logical place to fix the sync.

I don't know of a single TVS user who hasn't had to deal with this, so it seems obvious. It would be incredibly useful is all I'm saying. So would quiet fans, but hey, what do I know, we should all be able to work in a separate room I guess. That's not reality.

"Adding functions which encourage bad practice and are confusing for users is not a sensible suggestion."

How is using cameras with output delay (which is most of them these days) along with external audio "bad practice"? It's what the switcher was designed to do. Adding a feature (use it or don't) to fix this VERY COMMON PRACTICE situation would be great.

I fail to see why you are so opposed to this? Most people buying ATEMs are not using gen lock and pro cameras, but most people DO use several of the the SAME camera, and being able to sync the external audio feed is a basic request that's been around since they first came out. I don't think anybody would be "confused" by it at all.

I think you are both kinda right...

The most logical place to fix the audio is in the Audio mixer not the video mixer. It's sort-of in the name....

However because the ATEM is acting as an embedder, it would be useful to fix it there for those users who don't have an audio mix stage within their setup and rely on a front-of-house mixer feed.

The point Gary, and Toms document, make is that unless your cameras are gen-locked, it is effectively-pointless or "IMPOSSIBLE" to sync the audio to video, as because the pictures aren't in sync themselves, so syncing your audio to one camera will just ensure it's out on all the others.

All users with free-running cameras can hope for, is to dial in enough delay such the audio is behind video, which is the least intrusive for the viewer. Very easily done on almost any audio mixer. Even very cost effective Behringer X32s and XR-smaller spin off mixers support many options for delaying audio.

But if BMD added audio delay option to the ATEM, we have to recognize the forum would be full of people not understanding why they couldn't find a delay that matched up for all their cameras.

Talking about lip-sync and audio delay in non-gen-locked environment is an oxymoron. Makes no sense / can't be done / conversations about it are a waste of time - or any other way you want to say it.

I'm guessing, but I would have thought that this is why BMD would be reluctant to add a features that wouldn't really work, why facilitate the shortcut of free-running cameras with a hack solution that doesn't really work. Would just reflect badly on their products..... Imagine the announcement: "BMD add an audio delay option to ATEM range help users with lip-sync on free-running cameras, that can't sync the audio to the pictures". How is that good for BMD??

What John has said pretty much covers it.

The overlap between people using consumer cameras but having an external audio mixer is tiny.

If your cameras have five frames of delay then they are not fit for purpose, I've always used Sonys which don't have significant delay on their SDI outs.

However there is already a very simple solution to fix sync on your cameras. You simply embed the audio via the cameras audio input. Thus the camera will delay the sound to match its picture and your lipsync will be as good as it ever can be without genlock.

The ATEM should not have delay. It doesn't need it. The only purpose in providing delay is as a hack to fix deficiencies in 3rd party equipment / poor system design.

You can buy a lip sync correction audio delay for £60 new. If you need to use the external audio input and you don't have a mixer which can give you a delay then £60 on a little box fixes it.




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"The overlap between people using consumer cameras but having an external audio mixer is tiny. "

On what research do you base this incorrect opinion? This is flat out wrong. I would say this is the majority of TVS users, based on all of the TVS users I have known and helped out over the years.

"If your cameras have five frames of delay then they are not fit for purpose, I've always used Sonys which don't have significant delay on their SDI outs. "

Many people can't afford a $5000 Sony camera with SDI to use with their $900 switcher. MANY MANY people use afforable Canon cameras with the TVS, they work fine, so what if they have a few frames delay? It doesn't make them "unfit", they look great. Almost every camera has at least a 2 frame delay these days, and the ATEMs add one or two depending on how you use it, it's not because of user error, or "unfit" gear, it's just the way it is, and it'd be great to be able to easily adjust the external audio feed without needed another piece of equipment, adding another A/D-D/A conversion, and the added cost (a cheapy sync box is still 10% of a TVS).

"However there is already a very simple solution to fix sync on your cameras. You simply embed the audio via the cameras audio input. Thus the camera will delay the sound to match its picture and your lipsync will be as good as it ever can be without genlock. "

The problem is when you're using consumer cameras, they don't have proper audio inputs, so taking a +4 balanced output from an audio board and interfacing it with the mini jack on a camcorder is even more of a challenge than using a sync delay. This is not a solution either.

I've already explained how to fix this issue using the equipment you already have at no extra outlay, without waiting for functionality which doesn't exist and probably never will.

There are many good reasons not to add audio delay into the vision mixers functionality. I've tried to outline these for you to better understand.

Really this is boring.


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Indeed.

""BMD add an audio delay option to ATEM range help users with lip-sync on free-running cameras, that can't sync the audio to the pictures". How is that good for BMD??"

If you use the same model cameras, which many people do, they are all in sync with each other, even without gen lock, and a delay on the external audio input would solve the sync issue.

To beat a dead horse, Tom, do you think a video recorder is the wrong place to put a sync delay as well? That is a video device after all. And, yet, companies like ATOMOS, who recognize their customer's needs, have adjustable audio delay in their recorders for just this purpose, knowing that external audio will likely be ahead of a camera signal. I guess they're just trying to help out those poor souls with unfit gear.

People purchase ATEMs because of the frame syncs. I'd LOVE to know the actual percentage of ATEM users who use genlock. I'd put it well under 10%. Given that, and that every camera going through a frame sync will be delayed, plus their own output delay, a way to sync the external audio input seems obvious. It's obvious to ATOMOS, it's obvious to Roland, it's obvious to Convergent Design, etc...