Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

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Tom_Bassford

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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostSat Mar 18, 2017 9:42 am

+1 for both options!
I run a BMD Panel alongside an Xkeys / JM setup on lots of shows. The BMD panel is ergonomically a million times better than any Xkeys and it doesn't suffer from the cheap buttons and poor illumination which makes Xkeys look shoddy and make it hard to tell what their panels are doing.

JM and Xkeys is a great combination if you are an advanced user with some programming experience. If you don't write any code then you'll find it daunting and will probably need some help to get it running.

Skaarhoj's unisketch model provides the most powerful platform for people who need flexible control but don't write code.



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JohnBengston

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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostSat Mar 18, 2017 1:33 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:A Im sorry John, i meant the stand alone hardware panels that don't rely on the BMD sdk..


Absolutely nothing to apologize for, just wanted to make sure any casual readers understood there is a difference between some of the solutions being discussed, in terms of use of officially supported SDK and the reversed engineered protocol solutions. For most customers it actually makes no difference whatsoever, but from a kinda "pro risk analysis point of view", there is a "night and day" element.

Ian Morrish wrote:I use a 1ME broadcast panel every week but couldn't do without the extra smarts of a scripting solution to improve the workflow in a live production (I use a rack mounted Mac Mini - running Windows which hasn't crashed in over 2 years).
Example of my XKR-32 layout which I would prefer over the broadcast panel if I could only have one or the other, because I can have a "shifted" key call a function that makes full use of the ATEM (and other) API's...
Image


Ian, it's worth us (or the wide Xkeys community over on ATEMUser) discussing at some point "Key Sets", I'm going to ask PI Eng to print me (make available as a pack) a set of the New Key designs printed up with what I think the "Ideal ATEM XK124 Layout is". But there are so many panels, and combinations of panels BMD customers use to drive the ATEMs, I'd like to gather wider opinions and I'm certain PI Engineering will be interested in your opinion and Power Shell extensions.

Tom_Bassford wrote:+1 for both options!
I run a BMD Panel alongside an Xkeys / JM setup on lots of shows. The BMD panel is ergonomically a million times better than any Xkeys and it doesn't suffer from the cheap buttons and poor illumination which makes Xkeys look shoddy and make it hard to tell what their panels are doing.


Cheers for the plug Tom, Worth checking out the new XKeys buttons used on the vMix layout, are they now perfect? - Noop, Are they much better? Yeap definitely.

Tom_Bassford wrote:JM and Xkeys is a great combination if you are an advanced user with some programming experience. If you don't write any code then you'll find it daunting and will probably need some help to get it running.


Thanks again; IMHO: Code and scripts are the only pure way to communicate with a computer, but obviously I'm fairly biased. Anyone just getting started, help is available on hundreds of topics and thousands of posts, check out the JustMacros subforum over on the excellent ATEMUser Tom kindly runs for our community. You'll find I try to answer most questions but there are many very knowledgeable and helpful users who will help you out if I'm a bit a slow at times.

http://www.atemuser.com/forums/atem-vision-mixers/blackmagic-atems/just-macros

And for those of you like me, who hadn't checked out Kaspars UniSketch (what Tom's talking about), I advise starting here:

Last edited by JohnBengston on Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Tom_Bassford

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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostSat Mar 18, 2017 1:37 pm

:) +1 for atemuser.com there are loads of really helpful people there who are happy to jump in and get people up to speed with JustMacros and the many other solutions that the 3rd party development community has created.




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Daniel Binder

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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostSat Mar 18, 2017 9:50 pm

Got a Skaarhoj E201-M16 yesterday and started playing with it.
Build quality and buttons are great and unisketch is amazing.
I am only beginning to understand how powerful this device is - with one smart button and an encoder next to it you can basically control everything.
This is fantastic stuff and infinitely better than the xkeys solution we used so far.

Cheers,
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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostMon Mar 20, 2017 1:47 am

Right now I use an x-keys 16 panel on my tvs
Cameras 1-6 are on the left are the preview bus
The far right keys (15- 16) are take and dissolve
The middle keys are for graphics
But it works for me and I do like the feel of the buttons rather than using the mouse
I do like the look of the 32 x-keys
a Novice driver
please help me get down the right road
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Ian Morrish

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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostMon Mar 20, 2017 7:12 am

it's worth us (or the wide Xkeys community over on ATEMUser) discussing at some point "Key Sets", I'm going to ask PI Eng to print me (make available as a pack) a set of the New Key designs printed up with what I think the "Ideal ATEM XK124 Layout is". But there are so many panels, and combinations of panels BMD customers use to drive the ATEMs, I'd like to gather wider opinions and I'm certain PI Engineering will be interested in your opinion and Power Shell extensions.

My one issue with X-Keys is the flimsy keycaps. Always loosing a keycap cover so these new keycaps sound awesome and probably worth the investment.
Skaarhoj gear is very professional but out of the budget range for most people I have dealt with.
I have found most Midi control surfaces to be more rugged than X-Keys so hopefully these new key caps make X-Keys more attractive.

For the minimal price difference, I would go for the XL-24 over the 16. My standard XK-24 layout is based on a horizontal placement...
Image
Depending on the $NZ/$US exchange rate, the XK-60 comes in just under the tax threshold and is an awesome option. My current layout for that is
Image
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Scott Ryan

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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostFri Apr 07, 2017 8:30 pm

Xtreemtec wrote::shock: :shock: WTF.. No changeable IP adres.. Paying up to $400 for enabling a few buttons.. :x

Take a look at this one. I have this one and i'm pretty satisfied.. Button mapping, Support for all atems.. IP adres can be set from the menu..
Hyperdeck control by IP
Macro support
Free software updates and self update-able.

$1800 dollars And made in the Netherlands instead of China.. ;)

Not having a T-bar but fader does not bother me.. It works fine to it this way..

Image
http://www.mix-it.tv

Did you buy directly from Mix-it for this or a reseller? I filled out their contact form yesterday to purchase but haven't heard anything yet.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostSun Apr 09, 2017 2:48 pm

I boughed it from a reseller.. But i'm Dutch and it is a dutch product.. So that was easy..
I can't see where you from but i guess USA.. I think they have a reseller there.. Can't remember there name but it is on theire FB page..

You can also order it directly from there site..
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Scott Ryan

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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostSun Apr 09, 2017 8:18 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:I boughed it from a reseller.. But i'm Dutch and it is a dutch product.. So that was easy..
I can't see where you from but i guess USA.. I think they have a reseller there.. Can't remember there name but it is on theire FB page..

You can also order it directly from there site..

Yep I'm in California. I'll check their fb page. I tried to order it direct from their website and it has you fill out a form, which I did. It says they will contact you about purchasing but I haven't heard back.

Edit: I can't even find their fb page! Got a link?
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Larry Masters

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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostFri May 19, 2017 4:17 pm

So I decided to go with the BMD 1 M/E Panel, B&H shipped it and I had it in my hands last night. Just testing it and I have to say this is far better than using the computer to control it. I like how everything is where I need it, and I haven't gotten too deep into it yet.

I was going to get the SKAARHOJ XC3 and XC4 but they will not be shipping until Mid June and I wanted a panel before an event I have first week of June.

Anyone have links to anything that might help me learn all of the panel features?
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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostSat May 20, 2017 5:02 pm

The broadcast panels are fun. I like them a lot now since last week :lol:
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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostSat May 20, 2017 5:14 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:The broadcast panels are fun. I like them a lot now since last week :lol:


What is this? Did you make something special? :D
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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostSat May 20, 2017 6:39 pm

Sssssssttt :mrgreen: ;)
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Tobias Dieterich

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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostMon May 22, 2017 2:31 am

Hahahaha Daniel, you are teasing :D
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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostTue May 23, 2017 11:26 am

Tobias Dieterich wrote:Hahahaha Daniel, you are teasing :D

:lol: :lol: Yes i am.. But i have to finnish up some work before i can show more to the public.. You seen more than this Tobias ;) :mrgreen:
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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostMon May 29, 2017 6:43 pm

There is a weird echo in that photo...
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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostTue May 30, 2017 2:21 pm

Tom_Bassford wrote:The JL Cooper Proton is a great little panel. Also check out the panels from Skaarhoj - they have a great selection of controllers to suite all budgets.


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For me anyway the price difference seems so minimal (yes they are half the cost but Buy right once, is cheaper than buying twice) that I'd just get the BMD panel with all the features over an unofficially supported solution they is missing features and may not work with firmware updates.

I do have a question though, I know the M/E 1 Panel can switch an controller either of the M/E 2 Engines, but can you connect two M/E 1 Panels to the M/E 2 switcher at the same time, one controlling each M/E?
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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostTue May 30, 2017 2:57 pm

JasonFinnigan wrote:I do have a question though, I know the M/E 1 Panel can switch an controller either of the M/E 2 Engines, but can you connect two M/E 1 Panels to the M/E 2 switcher at the same time, one controlling each M/E?

yes, you can do this
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Tom_Bassford

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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostTue May 30, 2017 3:51 pm

JasonFinnigan wrote:
For me anyway the price difference seems so minimal (yes they are half the cost but Buy right once, is cheaper than buying twice) that I'd just get the BMD panel with all the features over an unofficially supported solution they is missing features and may not work with firmware updates.

That's a pretty bad misunderstanding of the situation actually. The Blackmagic panels have minimal functionality. You are limited to what Blackmagic have put in the hardware and even then some of the functions they include simply do not function at all (PTZ control being a case in point). Skaarhoj panels are highly configurable and able to control many more devices than the BMD panels can. The newer Skaarhoj panels which run unisketch can be configured from a web interface with no coding required, they can control not only the ATEM but also Hyperdeck, Smart Scopes, Videohub, AJA Kumo routers, VMix, with support in development for Panasonic and Sony PTZ protocols.

The worries about future firmware upgrades have not yet come to anything. It's theoretically possible that Blackmagic could make a future firmware which would not work with the current Skaarhoj products, however you will always have the functionality that they provide today.
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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostTue May 30, 2017 7:20 pm

Tom_Bassford wrote:
JasonFinnigan wrote:
For me anyway the price difference seems so minimal (yes they are half the cost but Buy right once, is cheaper than buying twice) that I'd just get the BMD panel with all the features over an unofficially supported solution they is missing features and may not work with firmware updates.

That's a pretty bad misunderstanding of the situation actually. The Blackmagic panels have minimal functionality. You are limited to what Blackmagic have put in the hardware and even then some of the functions they include simply do not function at all (PTZ control being a case in point). Skaarhoj panels are highly configurable and able to control many more devices than the BMD panels can. The newer Skaarhoj panels which run unisketch can be configured from a web interface with no coding required, they can control not only the ATEM but also Hyperdeck, Smart Scopes, Videohub, AJA Kumo routers, VMix, with support in development for Panasonic and Sony PTZ protocols.


You are looking for more control of Third Party systems though, I am not that is the difference. The blackmagic panel is more polished than the others. We'll agree to disagree.
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Tom_Bassford

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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostTue May 30, 2017 7:29 pm

How many of the other panels do you own / have used for a decent amount of time?

The BMD panel is OK, I own one and am happy enough with it for basic shows. But anything remotely complex gets annoying quite quickly.

The third party panels which allow customisation are easier to use and create a better workflow.

I've used Skaarhoj Panels, the Proton, JustMacros with XKeys. They all have their place but I wouldn't describe the BMD panel as either more polished or better constructed than the 3rd party options.


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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostTue Jun 13, 2017 2:06 pm

Tom_Bassford wrote:There is a weird echo in that photo...

:lol: :lol: LOOOOL Very Echoish from the Past...
I may have some Identity Four that... But at the Overture here i feel it coming Two.. :mrgreen: :lol: #Hints...
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostTue Oct 24, 2017 9:01 pm

Any news from BMD about any new "smaller" control panels ?
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lotech

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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostTue Oct 24, 2017 9:45 pm

Being that BMD have changed their entire design language on 90% of hardware now it can only be a matter of time until we get a new panel design - I would surprised if it didn't happen at the next NAB.
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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostTue Oct 24, 2017 9:56 pm

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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostWed Oct 25, 2017 1:09 pm

Played a bit with the Ion on the IBC fair.. Not my type of controller..
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Roman Pytkin Pekarek

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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostWed Oct 25, 2017 8:18 pm

Xtreemtec : What was wrong for you ? Write small review please ..
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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostThu Oct 26, 2017 2:40 pm

I can't go in depth because i only played with it for 3 minutes or so.. But i'm used to the BMD and Echolab panels.. They are using NKK switches which cost arround 11 dollars a piece.. Nice big tacticle feel to them..

The smaller buttons on that controller didn't feel that good under the finger.. Also because i'm used to bigger buttons i pushed a few times a different or 2 buttons when working blind.. Something you don't want in a live situation..

But then again.. I'm used to the nice feel of the big panels.. Maybe it is totally oke for you and your budget..
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Re: Broadcast Panel Yes or No?

PostThu Oct 26, 2017 5:47 pm

Thanx for reply .. I understand what are U talking .. We have 2 Echolab'a ATEM's here in studio and mobile cases setup , and 2 BMD ATEMs with panels too .. I like this tacticle buttons .. I seen ION only on pictures .. Buttons looked good on it .. But real touch is needed for serious testing ..

How about ATEM HD PRO ? Are buttons ok for U ? They are not looking good on pictures ..
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