Two-men livestream setup

Questions about ATEM Switchers, Camera Converter and everything live!
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Hindrik Raap

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Two-men livestream setup

PostThu Apr 13, 2017 9:24 am

Hi there!

For a while I am busy with a setup for our education. I already went over a lot of options in a previous topic, where I had to decide on hardware vs. software switching, hardware vs. software encoding etc. Let me briefly get summarise what the needs are.

- Portable live-streaming setup.
- Used for conferences, lectures, events etc.
- Streamed to YouTube and Facebook.
- User-friendly, as I would like students to operate with it in some situations.

My options so far
Based on this information, I am currently aiming towards the new ATEM TV studio in combination with a Mac Mini, and UltraStudio MiniRecorder. Another option would be the more expensive UltraStudio, software-based switching on a powerful MacPro by using MimoLive. The last option is a full-kit by Wirecast, although I don't really like their style compared to the slick use of MimoLive.


However, as the title mentions already, the setup needs to be able to be controlled by around 2 persons. In bigger occasions a full camera crew will be present, but not for standard conferences and lectures. I looked into http://ptzoptics.com, but I have no experience with them at all. It looks quite ok, and by this I should be able to stick to two people. Since those camera's can also be mounted on a tripod, it will definitely be portable.

Do you guys have any advise? I would love to control the camera's from a distance. How is this usually done? Maybe a higher resolution camera with face-tracking software instead of hardware would work as well. As long as the live-stream is dynamic and fun to watch, instead of only static footage of a few camera's.

All tips are welcome!
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Marcus Strandepil

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Re: Two-men livestream setup

PostThu Apr 13, 2017 10:01 am

I am in a similar situation where we do live events by two persons. For some events we add camera and operators. The standard set-up we use is the following:
I manage 2-3 remote cameras + BMD Micro Studio Camera 4K + 1-2 static cameras. One is right beside us FOH so we can frame it a little. All is switched on a BMD Production Switcher 4K including static graphics. PGM is sent to a recorder and to my colleague who uses PGM as a camera in QLab. He controls all advanced graphics and outputs to projectors. For streaming we output to a second MacBook Pro which only handles the streaming.

I manage basic audio too. We are busy but can definitely manage with this setup.

An advice on remote cameras: Don't go cheap! We used Sony top of the line cameras at first but they are not very user friendly in a live environment. I prefer Panasonic HE-130 or 120. Fantastic cameras and easy/fast to operate.

Don't hesitate to contact me if you want to discuss further!

Good luck!


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk
ATEM Production Switcher 4k, SmartView 16" HD monitor, Various PC and MACs for recording and playback.
Behringer X32 Producer for live sound processing and multitrack recording.
850 VA UPS to secure power.
Installed in a 16 HU flypack.
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Hindrik Raap

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Re: Two-men livestream setup

PostThu Apr 13, 2017 10:32 am

Thank you for your reply Marcus!

What do you use to control the cameras? Does it integrate with the ATEM software? Or do you have a remote controller to still position the camera's. My "dream" would be to connect any remote camera to the ATEM, Wirecast or MimoLive and be able to set presets. I know MimoLive supports this but only with Axis camera's, who initially develop security cams.

You mention "Don't go cheap", while I completely agree with you, I know the executive board of the school doesn't. Is there a better option concerning remote camera's that are more affordable? How does this look (https://www.axis.com/nl/nl/products/axis-v5914)?

By the way, QLab looks amazing! Definitely going to look into that one for other purposes.
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Hindrik Raap

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Re: Two-men livestream setup

PostSun Apr 16, 2017 11:45 am

More tips?

I'm especially interested in PTZ camera's
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Markus Leodolter

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Re: Two-men livestream setup

PostMon Apr 17, 2017 7:46 am

We use 2 Panasonic HE120 together with a Panasonic HPX250 (close of the presenter) and a Sony NEX EA50 (for wideangle of the studio.)

The HE 120 are controlled by a Panasonic AW-RP50 by one operator. You can set presets there and also change the setting if necessary - and it is if you are filming people . They move around!

One operator controls the He120, the other one switches between the cameras and play out short shots.

I wouldn´t recommend working only with presets to be more flexible.
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Markus Leodolter

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Re: Two-men livestream setup

PostMon Apr 17, 2017 7:51 am

You even can use Panasonic HE60 or HE40 if there´s enough light.
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RichardJolly

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Re: Two-men livestream setup

PostMon Apr 17, 2017 8:06 am

The really low cost option? https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1223151-REG/bescor_mp_1e_motorized_pan_head_with.html?sts=pi

We use either a BMD Micro Studio Camera with a 14-42mm or 45-175mm lens, with zoom etc remote from the ATEM software, or a Pansonic HDC-xxx camcorder with remote zoom via a consumer infraned wireless extender. The latter is better in low light, though it can be tricky to keep the camera seeing the infrared and you have no remote iris.

The very simple Bescor remote control lead I have extended with Cat5 cable and tested up to 90 metres.

We have even moved the Bescor head in vision on occasion, for instance adjusting for a speaker walking up and down the stage, but I wouldn't recommend it. For our conference purposes, however, it is more than capable to giving what we need. We typically place it in the front row or on the edge of the stage at a conference and can quickly adjust to get a good angle on a row of panellists.
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Hindrik Raap

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Re: Two-men livestream setup

PostWed Apr 19, 2017 6:59 pm

What is so good about the Panasonic's. I mean they cost around 10k each, why should I use those ones instead of a 2k PTZoptics camera.

I need to pitch it, so I need some pro's and con's ;)

Thank you guys so far!
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MambaFiber.com

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Re: Two-men livestream setup

PostWed Apr 26, 2017 5:43 am

Well let's talk about the robotics. I played with the PTZoptics at NAB this week. They are kind of clunky, and the moves when recalling presets are horrendous. You could not use these moves on air, very much like cheap security cams. The Panasonic on the other hand are very smooth, and you can program speed and ramp up-down on the preset recalls to get nice on air moves. We have 4
AW-HE60, and an associate has 2 AW-HE130, we are very happy with them. After playing with the ptzoptics I feel like I made the right desicision.
Greg Bellotte - owner
MambaFiber.com
FaceBook.com/MambaFiber
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Denny Smith

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Re: Two-men livestream setup

PostThu Apr 27, 2017 1:20 am

Hindrik Raap wrote:What is so good about the Panasonic's. I mean they cost around 10k each, why should I use those ones instead of a 2k PTZoptics camera.
I need to pitch it, so I need some pro's and con's ;)
Thank you guys so far!


They work, and work very well! :mrgreen:
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Evan Daum

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Re: Two-men livestream setup

PostTue May 09, 2017 3:53 pm

You should check out http://www.multicamzilla.com . This is a system I designed that gives you remote PTZ and switching using LANC or Panasonic cameras and ATEM switchers. I currently use it with six Panasonic UX90s, shooting 4k in the camera, switching HD live. It works with a wide range of cameras, from a $250 Canon HFs20 to 4k DCI Panasonic DVX200.

It might be the perfect solution for you. Let me know if you have any questions about it.

It's super-intuitive too, using a PS-3 style controller, students would take to it instantly. :-)

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TomPWilson

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Re: Two-men livestream setup

PostTue May 09, 2017 11:47 pm

Evan Daum wrote:You should check out http://www.multicamzilla.com . This is a system I designed that gives you remote PTZ and switching using LANC or Panasonic cameras and ATEM switchers. I currently use it with six Panasonic UX90s, shooting 4k in the camera, switching HD live. It works with a wide range of cameras, from a $250 Canon HFs20 to 4k DCI Panasonic DVX200.

It might be the perfect solution for you. Let me know if you have any questions about it.

It's super-intuitive too, using a PS-3 style controller, students would take to it instantly. :-)



Not to denigrate your product, but $900 per camera for the PT mounts seems pretty steep. Add a LANC capable camera (they're getting harder to find), and it would be cheaper just to go straight to PTZ cameras.

In fact, I'm running those Bescor mounts you base your system on, and I'm starting to really hate them. I can't wait until I can afford to move up to something with presets and faster and more controllable movement.
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Chris McClement

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Re: Two-men livestream setup

PostWed May 10, 2017 4:38 am

Search YouTube for "Here to Record" channel. They have videos going through their portable setups (including a kit that will fit into airplane hand luggage!). Their setups are geared towards a one-man show so you could easily fill in the gaps with your 2nd person, who would basically be your remote camera operator. That would mean you wouldn't have to go to the expense of buying PTZ cameras etc.
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Evan Daum

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Re: Two-men livestream setup

PostWed May 10, 2017 3:33 pm

Hi Tom,

It's not just LANC, it also works with Panasonic video cameras.

Show me another wireless PTZ control system that can give you a 4k image, uses a real lens, and records internally for $3k per camera. MultiCamZilla with a Panasonic UX90 does this. PLUS it integrates the ATEM switching on to the same controller, which is really really useful.

I'm not arguing, but you might consider there are also some other advantages to using separate cameras and not dedicated PTZ cameras.

1. From an investment standpoint, it's much easier to re-sell a camera that anyone can use rather than an expensive PTZ camera.
2. Your cameras can all match perfectly, rather than cutting to a lower-res PTZ camera with color that doesn't quite match.
3. A regular camera can record internally, even at 4k.
4. A regular camera can shoot at many framerates often not available on dedicated PTZ cameras.
5. Shoots often require different combinations of PTZ and operated cameras, using the MultiCamZilla system allows you to use the cameras you invest in as either a remote controlled PTZ camera, or handheld, or tripod operated. It's a great use of your resources.
6. You can upgrade your cameras and keep your PTZ.
7. MultiCamZilla ties camera control and switching into a single intuitive controller.

Obviously having memory re-call would be great, but I'm trying to keep the system affordable and that would drive up the price significantly. I also need the system to be quiet because I shoot orchestras, and most servo systems are much too noisy to use on an orchestral stage.

Let me know if you'd like to try it out sometime, I'd love to change your mind.

-Evan
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Evan Daum

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Re: Two-men livestream setup

PostWed May 10, 2017 5:15 pm

Don't take my word for it either... :-)


http://schoolvideonews.com/Company-Prof ... tiCamZilla
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TomPWilson

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Re: Two-men livestream setup

PostThu May 11, 2017 12:40 am

Evan Daum wrote:Let me know if you'd like to try it out sometime, I'd love to change your mind.

-Evan



Thanks for the offer. I actually looked very hard at your PT setup, but the price is daunting, and I'm not actually looking for a wireless solution. Instead, I want something controllable from a PC USB port and all wired.

I've already got the Bescor mounts, so I'm considering picking up some USB LANC adapters and using an Arduino to drive the Bescor mounts. I may even eventually replace the Bescor mounts with a custom-fabricated mount using RC servos with an Arduino controller.
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Evan Daum

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Re: Two-men livestream setup

PostThu May 11, 2017 5:34 pm

Sounds like you're in the market for a DIY project, not a functioning, tested, proven system, these are two very different things. Keep that in mind when deciding what something is worth. If your development time isn't a cost factor, then you can definitely save yourself some money. It's always fun to make stuff yourself. :-)

-Evan
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TomPWilson

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Re: Two-men livestream setup

PostFri May 12, 2017 1:16 am

Evan Daum wrote:Sounds like you're in the market for a DIY project, not a functioning, tested, proven system, these are two very different things. Keep that in mind when deciding what something is worth. If your development time isn't a cost factor, then you can definitely save yourself some money. It's always fun to make stuff yourself. :-)

-Evan


Honestly, I'd rather buy a built system - but I just can't spend $3000 when I can do it myself for more like $300. :)
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Evan Daum

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Re: Two-men livestream setup

PostFri May 12, 2017 3:07 pm

It's all good, I get it.

If you eliminate the cost of R&D, programming, assembly, parts, testing, website, taxes, support, shipping, etc, you can obviously build it for less. :-)

-Evan

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