ATEM Audio Sync

Questions about ATEM Switchers, Camera Converter and everything live!
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David Anderson1

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ATEM Audio Sync

PostFri Apr 28, 2017 4:35 pm

I have an ATEM Television Studio purchased in Feb 2017. It seems to work fine, except for an audio lag when recording or broadcasting.

When I hook the SDI out to my Macbook Pro (2014) and use ManyCam to record (or broadcast), the audio lag is enormous (15 - 20 frames). When I hook the SDI to an external recorder, the lag is less, but still (3 to 5 frames) noticeable.

My set up is this:
Canon Vixia Camcorder (1080i 59.94fps) input via HDMI
Laptop PC input via HDMI

ATEM Output is 1080p 30fps via SDI to an UltraStudio Thunderbolt Mini Recorder to MacBook Pro

Audio is from Mackie ProFX8 via XLR to ATEM XLR inputs
I've also tried running Mackie audio to cameras and then use camera audio follow (with similar results)

If I connect the Mackie to my MacBook via USB and use that audio with ManyCam, the lag goes away. This is my work around, but makes field recording dependent on the laptop.

Is there any way to remove the audio delay in the ATEM?

Dave Anderson
Velomon Media
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Thomas Seewald

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Re: ATEM Audio Sync

PostSat Apr 29, 2017 6:21 am

Its the first time I ever heard, that ATEM generate an audio delay. For my oppinion, it is impossibe because of its technical design. Its a hardware solution without without known audio buffer.

I think, its a software problem.

First try to contol ATEMs output with a video monitor with included audio part. Normally there is audio before Video, because of (max) one frame processing time inside ATEM ans "some" frames coming from cameras, because they are not constructed for outputting video in realtime. So they have some frames processing time. So at the end of the chain at ATEMs output there will be a noticeable delay - audio before video, maybe 3 or 5 frames - depending on used camera model - not more.

If ATEM would have the possibility to generate an audio delay, it could be used for solving this problem.

So it seems to be impossible for me, that ATEM causes an audio delay. Check computer setting and software and control ATEMs output with a right monitor.
thos-berlin - Thomas S e e w a l d
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Tom_Bassford

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Re: ATEM Audio Sync

PostSat Apr 29, 2017 8:27 am

1 the atem television studio doesn't have XLR inputs

2 no atem causes audio delay.

The problem has to be with ManyCam. Please try using a different capture software.


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Xtreemtec

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Re: ATEM Audio Sync

PostMon May 01, 2017 11:57 am

TVS boughed in feb 2017... Tom this sounds like the TVS HD.. Which got released in february.. ;)

3 to 5 frames is pretty normal with a consumer camera like that Canon Vixia.. It is audio being ahead of video.. Video takes time to process and the Atem does not correct for that..
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Kit Laughlin

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Re: ATEM Audio Sync

PostFri Oct 20, 2017 5:18 am

@ ATEM Audio Sync:

My ATEM Television Studio HD has XLR inputs. I run a Røde Filmmaker mic kit (transmitter to receiver; 3ms delay) into a Behringer Tube pre-amp, lift to line level, and go XLR to XLR into the ATEM.

To the community here: I have a consistent 5 frame audio sync problem in this setup at all recording durations.

Audio is 5 frames ahead of video. When I look at any recording (whether to internal drive or external RAID) in a Final Cut Pro X timeline, we see the slate's spike in the waveform and hear it and, five frames later, see the corresponding video.

In my setup, I do not broadcast live; I record live to disk, via UltraStudio Mini Recorder (into the MacBook Pro, then Thunderbolt out to RAID SSDs). The setup is designed to eliminate the multi-cam editing we used to do; because we pull the footage off the SSDs, I can detach audio and bump the audio five frames ahead—but that workaround will not help when we decide to go live.

Posting here to join the conversation; I need a solution to this sync problem too, in time.
Regards, Kit Laughlin::www.StretchTherapy.net::BodyPress Productions
ATEM Television Studio HD, UltraStudio Mini-Recorder, 4 x Panasonic GX85s, too much sound gear
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Thomas Seewald

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Re: ATEM Audio Sync

PostFri Oct 20, 2017 6:43 am

As any people already wrote. Most cameras generate a huge video delay. Because there were not made for live usage, their technical design is not optimized for realtime video output. So when audio is ahead, use a audio Signal processor / delay unit at ATEM Input like Behringer DEQ2496. Set the delay time to your known value of 5 frames. (Please calculate yourself). Better 1 frame to much than 1 frame to less delay. In nature, we all see the situation before the noise reaches our ear....(audio behind Video)

Maybe other vision mixers can delay audio, but they cost significant more than the ATEM series mixer.
thos-berlin - Thomas S e e w a l d
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Kit Laughlin

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Re: ATEM Audio Sync

PostFri Oct 20, 2017 11:58 am

Thomas, I did read all the posts above, and the video processing delay you mentioned in relation to prosumer cameras was news to me, but made perfect sense; thank you.

When I searched on the Behringer DEQ2496, it seemed like overkill for a simple audio delay function, though. Can the ATEM TV studio HD use plugins (there are some excellent software plugins out there)?

And if not, do you or other members know of any hardware mixers that have this function in a stand-alone small form factor (not a rack mount unit like the Behringer DEQ2496)?

Thanks, sincerely.
Regards, Kit Laughlin::www.StretchTherapy.net::BodyPress Productions
ATEM Television Studio HD, UltraStudio Mini-Recorder, 4 x Panasonic GX85s, too much sound gear
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Thomas Seewald

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Re: ATEM Audio Sync

PostFri Oct 20, 2017 1:40 pm

Sorry, the Video delay Problem was not posted in this thread, but in some others here...

Some digital audio mixers have such delay function. Also some other signal processors like Behringer Shark FBQ100 (mono, so 2 pieces needed - very small - 2 HE height and 1/5 of a 19" rack width) or special delay lines. But I think, you have to invest $/€ 200,- ....
thos-berlin - Thomas S e e w a l d
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RichardPyne

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Re: ATEM Audio Sync

PostFri Oct 20, 2017 8:50 pm

Another option is a device like the SES-A-V-SYNC A/V Lip-Sync Corrector by Sescom that gives you an adjustable delay up to 300 mS.

It is only slightly less expensive then the Berhinger Shark and is RCA in and out whereas the Shark is XLR, so it may be a better choice.
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Kit Laughlin

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Re: ATEM Audio Sync

PostFri Oct 20, 2017 9:04 pm

Thanks Thomas: that cost is small in relation to the rest of the system. Now I know what the problem is, I can find a way to fix it.

I will be looking into possible software solutions, too, and will report back. Thanks again.
Regards, Kit Laughlin::www.StretchTherapy.net::BodyPress Productions
ATEM Television Studio HD, UltraStudio Mini-Recorder, 4 x Panasonic GX85s, too much sound gear
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Tony Esposito

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Re: ATEM Audio Sync

PostTue Nov 07, 2017 2:19 pm

I have the same issue getting audio from a sound board at concerts and going into a mixer to ride levels on my end then into the ATEM and out to the Assist for record. I picked up an Datavideo AD-100M which was a suggestion from a previous post on these forums but haven't dialed it in yet. If anyone has, let us know to try out.

Thanks.
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Kit Laughlin

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Re: ATEM Audio Sync

PostTue Nov 07, 2017 7:47 pm

To recap: setting up live-to-disk home TV recording studio; three cameras and second system sound (Røde pin mic, transmitter > receiver > MIC100 > ATEM). Audio connections are XLR, into one XLR input into the ATEM.

An ATEM Television Studio HD switcher controls the sound and vision setup, into a SSD recorder (MacBook Pro drives the ATEM, and outputs sound and vision via Thunderbolt and Media Express and an UltraStudio Mini Recorder takes the sound and vision to the final recording on mirrored RAID SSDs).

In testing, we found that audio arrives at the recording point 5 frames ahead of video; this is a very noticeable out of sync problem. After much searching here and elsewhere, I decided that the Behringer FBQ100's delay function might be used to fix this; we inserted the FBD100 in between the Behringer Ultragain Tube MIC100 (at line level) and dialled in a 140ms delay, and now we have perfect sync on the recorded program.

Thanks to everyone's suggestions here.
Regards, Kit Laughlin::www.StretchTherapy.net::BodyPress Productions
ATEM Television Studio HD, UltraStudio Mini-Recorder, 4 x Panasonic GX85s, too much sound gear
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Alar Suija

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Re: ATEM Audio Sync

PostWed Nov 08, 2017 6:22 am

Hello,

I also recomend DEQ2496, not only for delay, but You can use brickwall limiter too.
ATEM analog inputs have only 10dB headroom before clip starting @ -20 dbFS as reference zero, so fast limiter is mandatory. And one more cool feature is relay-based hard bypass.

We use ATEM Production Studio 4k w. Sony NXCAM cameras over the SDI and delay as long as 2 frames is needed.

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