Difficult with SDI on ATEM TVS HD

Hello

I have some PTZ cameras, an ATEM TVS and an ATEM TVS HD.
On the old ATEM TVS, I set it to 720p59.97, and so I did on the camera, and it worked fine.
Now I got on my hands the new ATEM TVS HD, I tried to do the same, but I got no image. I set the same resolution of the camera (and the old ATEM), with no luck. The camera have an HDMI output too, and via HDMI it works fine. I tried to connect both signals at the same time, I used the input 1 for HDMI and input 5 for SDI, on the preview mode I can see the image from input 1, but input 5 is black.
I tried some other resolutions (the camera offers several 1080p and 1080i, as well 720p options) and none worked via SDI. Tried other cables, with no luck either.

I'm kinda lost here, I must make it work via SDI, and I don't know what else could I do.
Someone have any idea about what can I try?

Thank you

With best regards
Christian Schultz

With no insult meant at all, but have you tried inputs 6-8 SDI? Just to eliminate port failure as an option.

Quick Edit: And you've verified you're going into SDI input for 5? (The bottom SDI port) Also, do you have an HDMI to SDI converter handy?

I don't take it as an insult, and yes, I tried all the inputs, and I even tried with another camera.
What sounds strange to me is that I get image on the old ATEM TVS...

I don't take it as an insult, and yes, I tried all the inputs, and I even tried with another camera.
What sounds strange to me is that I get image on the old ATEM TVS...

Got it- it does seem strange. I have an old TVS as well and had an SDI port go out on me (heat issues), is why I ask. I know that on the 2 M/E models, the older ones were more forgiving on input frames/HZ, so it's possible the same issue with the HD.

I realize I edited my above post while you were typing-- do you happen to have a converter handy?

are you sure your cameras output 59.94, and not 60?

the pre-4k ATEM models will accept 59.94 or 60 on the SDI inputs, the newer ATEM models will only accept 59.94 on the SDI inputs. all will accept 60 on the hdmi inputs.

if the cameras are really 60, you will need something like the decimator MD-HX to convert the 60 to 59.94

Hello

I have some PTZ cameras, an ATEM TVS and an ATEM TVS HD.
On the old ATEM TVS, I set it to 720p59.97, and so I did on the camera, and it worked fine.

Thank you

With best regards
Christian Schultz

If these are PTZOptics cameras they do not output broadcast frame rates. Like Greg said you will need the decimator, I have 4 of these cameras and 4 decimators to convert to 59.94

Hello guys, thank you so much for your support.

Yes, the issue was exactly this one. The camera I have is not a PTZ Optics, is a chinese brand called "Minrray" which looks very close to a PTZ Optics (maybe it is a clone, I don't know). I was selecting the 720p60, which didn't work on SDI but did work on HDMI. I changed the camera to 720p59.94 and it worked. It worked even on 1080i59.94, but didn't work on SDI on 1080p59.94, don't know why, but to me is not a huge issue.

Thank you so much for the help!

1080P is 3G sdi.. Probabbly it outputs level A while your mixer is in Level B configured.. Or just the other way..

1080P is 3G sdi.. Probabbly it outputs level A while your mixer is in Level B configured.. Or just the other way..

I figured out that the TVSHD uses Level B when transmitting 3G SDI. This is really annoying, because most consumer HDMI converters and capture devices only support Level A. Also, there's the simple possibility that your cables may not be up to a 3Gbps stream. I found that some of the patch cables I used with my gear couldn't handle 1080p59.94, even though they worked fine with 1080i. I think 1080i and below transmit in 1.5G, where the 1080p50 and above use 3G.

I have no idea why BM chose Level B as the only option, but since there's no way to switch the TVSHD into Level A mode, it's probably better to just live with 30FPS or 1080i... or spend the $300 per camera for a frame rate converter/scaler.

I figured out that the TVSHD uses Level B when transmitting 3G SDI. This is really annoying, because most consumer HDMI converters and capture devices only support Level A.

Hold up Consumer converters?? No they are not consumer converters.. They are Security SDI to HDMI converters.. Build for the CCTV market and they are not very well suited for broadcast!!
Lacking the SMPTE standard and obeying there Fee's for using the SMPTE standard results in converters that work very well in CCTV.. But are quite often mistaken that it also should work for Broadcast...
Up to 1080i is 1,5G standard which is fairly the same onall converters.. But because of the Dual link 2x 1,5G system to go 1080P over 2 sdi lines.. ("" Dual link) There have been a development called 3G Level A and Level B. Where one does send images in sequential order.. While the other standard has 2x 1080 even and odd frames inside.. These 2 don't match quite nicely..

So if you want to go 1080P (3G sdi) buy yourself a good converter which is 100% SMPTE complaint..
So a BMD mini or micro sdi to hdmi converter. Decimator MD-HX / MD-LX. Yuan / Broadcastgear "sdi2hdmi". Aja SDI to HMDI.. There are plenty of good ones out there.. But yes they cost a bit more..

If you want to go hdmi 1080P to sdi i want to recommend a MD-HX all the time.. You can set level A or B. You can scale your image to the right resolution / framerate for your mixer.. Livesaver everytime!!

I figured out that the TVSHD uses Level B when transmitting 3G SDI. This is really annoying, because most consumer HDMI converters and capture devices only support Level A.

Up to 1080i is 1,5G standard which is fairly the same onall converters.. But because of the Dual link 2x 1,5G system to go 1080P over 2 sdi lines.. ("" Dual link) There have been a development called 3G Level A and Level B. Where one does send images in sequential order.. While the other standard has 2x 1080 even and odd frames inside.. These 2 don't match quite nicely..

Was reading this thread and read "Level A" "Level B" - what is that I asked myself? Never heard of it.

Thank you for your brief explanation. Very helpful.

I just discovered something today!

In the computer switching software, there is a setting to switch between Level A and Level B when in 3G modes (i.e. 1080p)

Hit the gear icon at the bottom left corner of the software and look for the page that has the system settings. I just upgraded the firmware yesterday, so I'm wondering if this is a new setting.

I figured out that the TVSHD uses Level B when transmitting 3G SDI. This is really annoying, because most consumer HDMI converters and capture devices only support Level A.

Hold up Consumer converters?? No they are not consumer converters.. They are Security SDI to HDMI converters.. Build for the CCTV market and they are not very well suited for broadcast!!
...
If you want to go hdmi 1080P to sdi i want to recommend a MD-HX all the time.. You can set level A or B. You can scale your image to the right resolution / framerate for your mixer.. Livesaver everytime!!

The 3 converters I have all claim to be 3G SDI boxes, but they don't handle Level B.

Anyway, it's a moot point. I found a (new?) setting in the TVSHD to use Level A. I haven't had a chance to test it yet, since I would need to switch all my gear to 1080p again, but my converters do work with the Decimator's output when i set it to Level A. So I'm betting they will work with the the TVSHD.

Whatever reason there is for going with Level B, I don't really know, but it's a lot cheaper to flip a switch and run Level A than to spend $700 on new SDI to HDMI converters.

Well yes that function to switch over level A or B is in the software.. I wasn't sure if the TVS HD already had it.. (some features come in time by firmware updates..) But sometimes you can't go this route..
For example if you cameras only output Level B..

My PTZ domes only support Level B.. So i don't deal with Level A a lot.. As almost every gear i have is Level B capable.. But then i almost never use Cheap chinese converters.. I'm very happy with my Broadcastgear converters were i own a 30 pieces from, Almost all with scaling engine in them...
Also have 5 decimators because they are true lifesavers..

Hi! Im thinking to buy this Minrray PTZ cams... could someone confirm that PTZ control works fine through SDI on an ATEM TVS HD ? Thanks!

I just discovered something today!

In the computer switching software, there is a setting to switch between Level A and Level B when in 3G modes (i.e. 1080p)

Hit the gear icon at the bottom left corner of the software and look for the page that has the system settings. I just upgraded the firmware yesterday, so I'm wondering if this is a new setting.

SDI signals can be
Single link very often 422
or
Dual Link 4444
Level A is 422
level B 224 (also bringing the key signal)
The video mixers all work on link A and exploit level B only if it exists and to make the Chroma and/or Luma keys

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMPTE_424M