Micro Cinema or Micro Studio with ATEM?

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TJ McCormick

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Micro Cinema or Micro Studio with ATEM?

PostTue May 16, 2017 4:53 pm

I'm trying to decide whether or not to get a BMMCC or BMMSC for my multi camera rig. I purchased the ATEM TV Studio switcher. I usually shoot small breakout room type events, switching between camera(s) and computer content. I think the Cinema Camera option is much better for my situation, because it saves me from purchasing ISO record decks. Shading is usually not an issue, since it's mostly set and forget. If I understand the ATEM, I should be able to make small adjustments to paint and shade cameras with the ATEM interface. Would anyone suggest the Micro Cinemas or stay with the Micro Studios?
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: Micro Cinema or Micro Studio with ATEM?

PostTue May 16, 2017 10:33 pm

The Micro Cinema Camera will not respond to any of the painting or shading adjustments via the ATEM interface. These commands are sent over the SDI outputs from the ATEM and are received by the camera over its SDI input. But the Micro Cinema Camera of course has no SDI input.

The Micro Cinema Camera also has a fairly flat (low contrast) image by default, which is useful for cinema productions which will have lots of post-processing, color grading, and editing of the recorded video. A flat color profile can give more flexibility in tweaking the image in post.

However, in a live broadcast (without the benefit of post processing), this low contrast look may be less desirable.
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TJ McCormick

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Re: Micro Cinema or Micro Studio with ATEM?

PostTue May 16, 2017 11:26 pm

So, ATEM doesn't change the actual image through the switcher, but changes the camera's paint settings? I also thought there was somewhere a lut was applied, maybe that was at the recorder end. I'm recording straight to Hyper Deck Studio Mini. I'm still leaning towards the cinema, but i like having more control over the camera. Any other thoughts??
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Denny Smith

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Re: Micro Cinema or Micro Studio with ATEM?

PostWed May 17, 2017 2:59 am

If you are live switching several cameras, you want the Micro Studio cameras, that is what they were designed for, and the cameras can be colur corrected to match via the ATEM CCU. Disadvantage, native ISO is 100/200, so more light is needed, but it can match the other BM Studio cameras. Advantage is the SDI in/out, no issue with cable runs up to 300-feet, depending on the HD/SDI cables being used

The Micro Cinema only has an HDMI out, designed for a monitor, so no HDMI cable runs over 15-feet, or you will need a SDI adapter. Also Using the Cinema camera only works, if all the cameras are the Micro Cinema or Pocket/BMCC cameras, and you can color correct and process the flat film log images in post to get the results you want. Advantage is the higher native ISO of 800, so works well with less light. Disadvantage is the HDMI output, limits cable runs.

So wich camera depends on your wanted end result and work flow you want to go with.
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SHA Productions
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Jack Fairley

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Re: Micro Cinema or Micro Studio with ATEM?

PostWed May 17, 2017 6:23 am

TJ McCormick wrote:So, ATEM doesn't change the actual image through the switcher, but changes the camera's paint settings? I also thought there was somewhere a lut was applied, maybe that was at the recorder end. I'm recording straight to Hyper Deck Studio Mini. I'm still leaning towards the cinema, but i like having more control over the camera. Any other thoughts??


See this video for film look vs the video look. Obviously not the same cameras but will give you an idea of what to expect. The film look will be pretty much unusable without grading, I think.

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Oscar Moreno

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Re: Micro Cinema or Micro Studio with ATEM?

PostWed May 17, 2017 6:06 pm

You want to go with the Micro Studio. It has features specifically for studios such as tally, talkback and camera control. I'd advice though that you light your studio properly - especially in green screen situations . . . or get the fastest lens possible. It has 11 stops of dynamic range and the sensor is not great in low light.

Here it is in my studio and the end result from a weather forecast green room:

Image
Image Image
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Matt Moon

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Re: Micro Cinema or Micro Studio with ATEM?

PostFri Jul 07, 2017 5:36 pm

With the BMMCC, is there a way to 'unflatten' the HDMI output for use with live productions? My worry about the BMMSC is that for live productions, it's going to pretty much useless since getting correct and adequate lighting isn't going to happen often.

EDIT: Answering my own question. The camera does have two dynamic range settings: 'Film' and 'Video'.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Micro Cinema or Micro Studio with ATEM?

PostMon Jul 10, 2017 5:56 am

Yes Matt, but even with the Video outlutmsetting in the Micro Cinema camera, the image is not as saturated as the Micro Stuido camera. Also, you are only talking about one and a half to two f/stops different between the two cameras sensor's sensitivity to light. Even the Micro Cinema camera needs good lighting.

I have both cameras, and have hooked them up to the same monitor p, one via HDMI and the other SDI, so,I could switch quickly between both, and you can see a saturation difference between the two. I do not do much post processing, so I useually go with the Micro Studio for most of my shoots, recording to a Video Devices Pix E.
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Matt Moon

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Re: Micro Cinema or Micro Studio with ATEM?

PostThu Jul 13, 2017 5:50 pm

Thanks, Denny. I'm also one who is mulling over whether to get the studios or cinemas. I just rented an MCC with a speedbooster and tried it with some of my Canon lenses in my typical 'studio' setup. It performed well with the light I had. But I'm losing the advantages of the studio camera. I'm tempted to rent an MSC and give it a shot with my lighting (and the other typical lighting situations that I run into, like theaters or other events where I don't have control over the lighting). If the MSC can perform OK in the lower light scenarios I use (with a speedbooster, probably), it'd be a no-brainer. The SDI has huge advantages with the BM switchers.
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ScottThomas

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Re: Micro Cinema or Micro Studio with ATEM?

PostFri Jul 21, 2017 11:07 pm

I'm searching around and haven't found the answer yet: We are looking at the Micro Studio 4K and I would like to know more about how you control the primary color corrector. I understand you can use the SDI control into the camera from an ATEM, but what if you won't have an ATEM? Can I just load a LUT into the camera, or can I use the ATEM software through a regular BlackMagic DeckLink card?

Apologies if this is answered elsewhere, but I haven't found it yet.

Scott Thomas
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Micro Cinema or Micro Studio with ATEM?

PostMon Jul 24, 2017 6:26 am

If you want to control the shading of this camera you need an atem or if you are crafter you buy a SDI shield for arduino and you can build your own controller.
Guys like Skaarhoj have a RCU that you can get with SDI output So you don't need an atem.
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV, ATEM TVS HD, Production Studio 4K, 2M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Hyperdeck Studio, SONY FS7 4K, JVC HM700 Full HD Camera
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ScottThomas

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Re: Micro Cinema or Micro Studio with ATEM?

PostMon Jul 24, 2017 10:59 pm

Daniel,

Thanks for the response. I asked the same question over at Creative COW and got a response from Kristian Lam of BMD mentioning the Arduino Shield. I started Googling and found Kasper's Youtube videos for Skaarhoj. Very interesting stuff. If I was outfitting an entire studio with BMD cameras I could probably make a case for it. Our current plans are for just one Micro Studio camera, so the ancillary gear would cost more than the camera itself.

I've gone ahead and ordered an Arduino Uno and the BMD shield and I'll start trying to figure that out.

I did email Skaarhoj and Kasper responded with some info on their B4 lens adaptor with a WiFi interface and that would give us CCU access, wirelessly . I'll present the info to my boss and see if he's interested.

I appreciate the help. Thanks!

Scott Thomas

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