ATEM Television Studio Pro HD vs Roland VR-4HD

I'm setting up a small studio for video, especially live streaming, that will incorporate a presenter, visual content (slides, etc.), microphones (including occasional live instruments), and 2 cameras. I'm seeking to create something that can be understood by volunteers, including some hardware interface like both of these have.

I like the BMD Television Studio Pro HD, but I'm confused about some things that are missing in comparison to the Roland (which, admittedly, costs $500 more):
The Roland has 4 XLR/TRS inputs, the BMD has 2 XLR-only (admittedly an external mixer could be added)
The Roland has audio-sync delay incorporated
The Roland has an input channel with image scaling for a wide variety of devices (ipads, etc.)
etc.

But the big ones have to do with output:
The BMD has no USB output of the video mix? (I suppose I could get an SDI PCIe card in my computer)
The BMD has no clean HDMI output (only one multi-view port)? Looks like I have to use HDMI converters for each output to monitors, recorders, etc.?
The BMD has no audio output other than headphones?

Once I add a small external mixer, PCI-e card, and a couple of HDMI/SDI converters, it seems like the BMD price advantage has gone away, and things have gotten more complex for me (and volunteers). Am I missing something?

Tim

I don't think the products are comparable. The Roland is designed to be used with consumer gear, hence the lack of any SDI I/O, no reference input, no external multiviewer. The BMD switcher, though small and inexpensive, is designed to be a piece of a larger live setup, which should include an external audio mixer, external capture/recording, and so on.

Although Roland make some incredibly good gear, this device is more of a 'toy' with that Im not looking to insult anyone.. just the lack of features mentioned above that would be important in a pro / semi pro role. currently in the 'pro' arena SDI is the defacto ( although ip is making rapid ingress) and as is HDMI cables can't be used reliably beyond 30ft so this is something to look at with camera placement etc. (or a little future proofing) TheTVS pro is designed for a differing user, those that won't really be considering using HDMI only devices, one using external audio mixing, maybe even handing it off to an audio specialists or FOH etc. One that isn't really thinking about an iPad as a video source or using a PCs usb connection to capture the event recording. I know that sounds quite pompous and i don't intend it too, just showing the differences in the thought processes that go to deciding what device suites your particular use case. At the EOTD if the purchase you make suites your needs then its the right purchase, but if your looking to use it as a stepping stone onto something more ???

And that additional $500 could be used to purchase the audio mixer or a few converters and a decklink card ( or BMD h264 pro recorder if usb ingest is important )

I understand, and your comments are helpful. I recognize the value of SDI, multi-view (which the Roland does have), external mixing, etc. And doing the external audio wouldn't be a problem for us.

I guess my big struggle is video out: I'm too much of a newbie to understand how I get the correct stream from this BMD unit into my computer for livestreaming via Wirecast? I looked at the H.264 pro recorder that you mentioned, but I'm still struggling to see how this helps me get the video feed I need to the computer.

Ok, unfortunately the pro recorder is out as it will not run with wirecast.

are you running win or Mac? If your on Mac look at the thunderbolt devices like the mini recorder.

If running pc then a decklink mini recorder...

Both accept an SDI ( or HDMI) input and when installed configured will be seen by wirecast, so anything on the SDI output of the atem will be available in wirecast.

Windows

Ok sry was editing the post when you replied so got a little out of sequence...

The decklink card will suffice... As said above once installed in the pc wirecast will see the output of the atem, just as if it was the PCs own webcam etc. But here's another question do you already run / own wirecast? If you do ok that's fine if not..

Your using a fairly high $$$ piece of software just to stream the atems output : now ur not using ½the resources of wirecast as the atems doing the switching.. if ur using wirecast for graphics or lower 3rds etc then ok ur making use of that purchase price.

Thank you, Andrew that is all helpful. You're right that we need to be careful not to overspend for something like Wirecast if we're using hardware to do a lot of that for us - we'll be on the lookout for that.

I just realized that the ATEM Television Studio (not Pro) includes picture-in-picture, which is important for us. I had it in my head that it didn't (since the basic version of the 4K switcher doesn't until you step up to the M/E versions).

So now I'm thinking that the ATEM Television Studio may do the job for me if I put it together with an audio mixer and decklink mini recorder in the PC. That would be about half the price.

Be a little careful when looking at the TVS line. The original TVS didn't have PiP and was a totally different machine to the newer models. The TVS HD and TVS pro HD do have it.

Re. Purchasing wirecast. Look at something like OBS. It doesn't have the full feature list of wirecast but neither does it have the costs. With OBS you could stream your production and add a few titles etc. If you want to spend out vmix is something worth looking at also. Although if has a 'dated' GUI it really is a very capable program for very little outlay.

With what your looking at there in your last paragraph you will have a reasonably capable solution which you can grow with should you choose.

A.

Thank you for that caution about the older TVS model - I've found myself getting a little confused about what BMD has updated and what they haven't. I'll make sure to get the new one.

And thank you for the reminder about OBS, and we've also looked into VMix. We'll start free and work up from there.

You've been very helpful!

While good quality, the Pro Recorder does lock you into Windows, and you then need another software to actually stream out to a service. While *that* software is good, it can be a pain to set up, and if you miss a setting, your stream will be absolute shite.

A total software solution is perhaps a bit more flexible, but you're at the mercy of the host computer. That being said, many people do this day in and day out.

You could use an outboard streamer like the VidiU Mini for streaming to YT, FB and straight up rtmp.

Your welcome Tim, whatever use choose I hope it all works out for you.

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You could use a Blackmagic Design DeckLink Quad 2 (8 inputs sdi), 800 dollar, and put into a computer with livestream studio , 800 dollar. if you use a paid version of livestream.com, it is free.
pip (even more of them), titles, streaming, switching from the same computer. powerpoints can be brought over network.

Markus, your forgetting the costs of a highend gaming i7 pc with 32gb ram and a nvidia 1050 graphics card ? Add in a couple top spec ssd hard drives add livestreams plans starting at around $50 per month and well over the price of a hardware switcher.

I'm not knocking software switchers I use them myself but the overall costs for a 'simple use solution' can be moreso than the hardware route.

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I do have a computer with pretty decent specs, fairly high-end i7 with Nvidia 970, fast ram, and at least a fast system SSD (though I may need to supplement that). But I only have one PCIe slot available, and I'm kind of fearful of having to make sure I can get all of my in/out through computer ports. And knowing that if Windows does something goofy or for some other reason the system has trouble, everything's down.

So I guess I've been tending toward a primary hardware solution that would then allow me to start with basic levels of software (whether livestream, wirecast, vmix, etc. - and also playing with the switcher's software to see how much functionality it has) and work my way up until I figure out how much software functionality I need to pay for.

Livestream Studio Can use your GPU so your I7 will be ok.

Even Hardwaremixers can Go Down, especially if the cooling isn't perfect. once I lost 4 of 10 Inputs of my 1 m/e 4K during a show, another Time the Outputs of a Roland vr 50 stopped working one hour before the Show.

I have another "dummies" question: do capture cards with an output (for example Decklink Studio 4K) allow you to output anything from your computer through that output (for example, powerpoint, a DVD, extending or mirroring the desktop, etc.) just like when you attach a monitor to a regular PC output, or do they only allow output through certain types of BMD software like Media Express.
I.e., does a capture card with output give me the same options as any other monitor attached to the computer?

Tim, some of BMDs multi port cards can be configured as inputs and / or outputs and any combination there of. The outs won't be available to the pc as a monitor they would only be available to the switching software your using at any one time, providing of course the switching software can make use of them and has that feature.

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