Slightly off topic - Analogue comms over fibre/IP

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lotech

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Slightly off topic - Analogue comms over fibre/IP

PostWed Aug 09, 2017 10:19 pm

We're looking for a way of getting our analogue Clearcom/RTS system down a fibre cable.
We have a Thor SDI multiplexer (https://thorbroadcast.com/product/8-sd- ... tml#models) which supports bi-directional analogue audio and am wondering if something like the Clearcom TW-47 (http://www.clearcom.com/product/partyli ... aces/tw-47) would work to get Mic working in one direction and headset going in the other. The TW-47 is obviously designed to integrate with RT comms but if they're analogue I'm assuming they would work the same way.

Otherwise has anyone come across an interface to take analogue comms and convert to and from IP based comms?

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MambaFiber.com

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Re: Slightly off topic - Analogue comms over fibre/IP

PostThu Aug 10, 2017 12:15 am

I don't find this off topic at all. intercom is a often overlooked but ESSENTIAL part of making a successful broadcast.

the tw-47 you linked is really meant to interface to a 2way radio. the ef-701m is really what you want from clear com. better yet, we use the studio technologies model 45/46/47 units as they have much better performance and features.

lets assume you have a simple belt pack coms system that uses 2 wire (both talk and listen share a single circuit on one pair of wires and the traffic is bidirectional). most audio over fiber paths are unidirectional (one way only) and don't pass any of the required power for the belt packs. you need a 2 to 4 wire interface on each end of the fiber to convert the single bidirectional circuit into 2 unidirectional circuits-one going each way. then you just need an audio path both ways in the fiber for each channel of coms you use. the interfaces mentioned above do just that, as well as taking care of handling the power, stripping it off one end and adding it back in on the other end of the fiber so your belt pack still works. actually if you use the CC unit you have to add a power supply to the remote end as well IFIRC.

this may sound overly complicated, but with the right hardware it works very well. we can put miles of fiber in the middle and the other end sounds like they are in the same room. we have built dozens of systems that work this way, very reliable as well.

other options...we are moving a lot of our systems over to dante, an IP based audio standard. there are dante intercom belt packs and interfaces to make this happen, and even units like the Studio Technologies Model 45DC or 45DR that bridge the gap between dante and analog. a dante intercom system would only require a network connection over fiber to connect everyone and POE switches or injectors handle powering the belt packs so they only need a single cat5 cable to function. we also have fiber interfaces that will put more advanced intercom panels, like the RTS ADAM series, onto fiber seamlessly.
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lotech

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Re: Slightly off topic - Analogue comms over fibre/IP

PostThu Aug 10, 2017 8:18 am

Great - thanks for the pointers. I had assumed there would be something that would allow us to get it working. Will look into the Studio Technologies 45/46/47. Out of interest whats the difference between the 46/47? They seem perfect but the basic description seems identical.
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Jacob Abramson

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Re: Slightly off topic - Analogue comms over fibre/IP

PostThu Aug 10, 2017 3:17 pm

We do it slightly different, but also using Thor fiber equipment (also works with any SDI over fiber that supports multi-channel audio). We have SDI signals running in both directions, so we use a pair of Clearcom ef-701m (one on each end) with some audio embedders/de-embedders and run the intercom audio over one of the embedded SDI audio channels.
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MambaFiber.com

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Re: Slightly off topic - Analogue comms over fibre/IP

PostThu Aug 10, 2017 3:40 pm

the ST Model 46/47 are nearly identical, but the difference lies in the 2 wire outputs. Model 46 only supplies belt pack power on pin2, the Model 47 supplies power on both pins 2 and 3. If you are just plugging into the interface directly the 46 is your choice. If you want to use something like the RTS SAP-612 to select channels on your belt packs, then the 47 is a better choice as belt pack power will be provided no matter which channel is selected.
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Nick Toale

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Re: Slightly off topic - Analogue comms over fibre/IP

PostSun Aug 13, 2017 3:53 pm

If you want to look at comms and investing in new gear look at AES67 systems like Livewire, Ravenna. Sonifex do some great kit for interfacing, especially if you want to Scale Stuff. You can very quickly hit some limitations in Dante especially if you want to Route Comms back to a network control center or connect to phones. Look at some of the case studies with broadcasters using AES67 audio

I don't really use Dante now due to its cost and limitations over other IP systems, Bonjour / mDNS being the main issue plus it doesn't play nicely with other network traffic. As video is moving to a more IP based work flow specifically SMPTE 2110, AES67 audio is a major part of it. The biggest benefit of IP is running on a converged infrastructure.

If I was buying any IP audio kit today by AES67 compliant

Telos Alliance have a really good SDI xNode box for embedding and De-embedding SDI Audio plus a few other useful features, that can then do signals onto an AES67 / Livewire network, plus you can do GPIO over the network and with it being SIP based you can do multi point comms anywhere and even do an IP Radio link for less than $600 as it runs on a 10/100 network. Drop an analogue node where you need it then you have 8 mono I/O or 4 Stereo feeds. You can easily set up IFB's if you use the mix features.

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