Overlays/Lower Thirds, Bugs and Stingers

Questions about ATEM Switchers, Camera Converter and everything live!
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Piotr Poznanski

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Overlays/Lower Thirds, Bugs and Stingers

PostSun Dec 03, 2017 7:50 pm

Hello everyone,

I have scoured the net and this forum for few days and either im incredibly stupid, this topic is really complicated for beginner* or there is really no one topic/place where this all is gathered together.

The context:
I have settled for a BMMSC x2 for my online (live and VOD) learning side of business. I teach people how to visualise things. For that i teach people how to draw their thoughts on a paper with markers and thus when i learn i use a overhead camera to show what i draw on my desk. Plus a standard talking head shot.

The issue:
I want to have strong branding in my live transmissions (fb) and VOD videos. Also later repurposing live videos for VOD. For this I want to do my live show with a flow like this:

0. Pre-show
Here i need an 10 min clock countdown overlay animation until the main show starts. So I think I would need to load an animation with a key/fill cables from Hyperdeck Studio Mini. Right?
(pre-show is cut out for later video repurpose for YT or other places)

1. Show
a. short welcome, my introduction and episode topic introduction, so i will need a lower third with my name and then lower third with topic/episode title
b. intro stinger
c. ability to bring in comments on screen (as i know this is doable with vMix social plugin)
d. outro stinger

b and d are done with Hyperdeck, but... How can I bring those to ATEM Tv Studio HD switcher? As I understand those are two different animations so i would have to bring them with 4 sdi connections from Hyperdeck (2 fill, 2 key) and then i can just use 2 buttons on the Switcher? That would leave me with 2 buttons for switching cameras. That would mean i cant do both stingers and have countdown? Can i choose on a Hyperdeck a video i want to play and feed to ATEM and thus have one connection (2 cables) from Hyperdeck to ATEM and just use one button to frist bring countdown timer, then choose intro video from hyperdeck menu and use the same button on atem for bringing it live and then at the end do the same with outro?

How can I then have ability to bring in at least two different lower thirds? Can i program them with ATEM controller for lets say buttons 1 and 2 on the switcher?

If not as I have also seen only two media slots on different videos, then using so many BM devices that cost like a high end computer seems kind of overly complicated for a lot of money.

Is there really so much performance difference between a weak/mediocre PC running vMix and 600 EU ATEM TV HD + 500 EU Hyperdeck and lets say dumping it all for a really stong PC? In vMix i can have as much video and lower thirds as i want and it seems way easier to control using lets say iPad as a remote console.

Did I even do figured our the way for connecting different BM devices together to do what i want? Do I also need a WebPresenter or will just two capture cards be enough?

Or is there even a simpler solution? Did anyone do any tests comparing dumping all budget into a beefed up PC versus splitting budget into mentioned BM gear with cheaper PC? I mean cost and convienience more effective for now for me it seems that strong PC just wins.

Or am I not getting something?

For budget lets say i have 2-3 k euros. Cameras separately.
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Jack Fairley

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Re: Overlays/Lower Thirds, Bugs and Stingers

PostSun Dec 03, 2017 8:18 pm

0: Yep
1: You can use different clips on one deck, you will just have to practice doing it live.

For lower thirds, depending on the switcher you could use a different keyer to accomplish it.

You seem to have figured out the way to put all the gear together. I don't see why you need two capture cards, you can run everything through the ATEM, then send the program feed to your capture card.

It's true that you may get more flexibility out of an all-in-one solution like vMix at a small scale like this, but in my opinion, that gets less sustainable as you work on larger shows, and having to relearn everything to work in a traditional environment is no fun.
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Piotr Poznanski

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Re: Overlays/Lower Thirds, Bugs and Stingers

PostSun Dec 03, 2017 9:41 pm

Yeah right! I forgot I will be plugging cameras to ATEM Tv Studio HD and from it with PGM to capture card. Right?

So I can load more than 1 lower third into ATEM? I have seen at ATEM software only 2 media players on the right, but lots of windows on the left for different overlays. How do i choose them while live? Would i need to scroll through them with the well on the ATEM and then use DSK button to overlay chosen graphics as lower third?

I still dont get that part :/ Didnt find any YouTube video showing this side of the stuff.

Would it be possible for you to explain it to me how that would work?
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Jack Fairley

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Re: Overlays/Lower Thirds, Bugs and Stingers

PostSun Dec 03, 2017 10:33 pm

Piotr Poznanski wrote:Yeah right! I forgot I will be plugging cameras to ATEM Tv Studio HD and from it with PGM to capture card. Right?

Yep. Pretty simple on the PC side, especially if you're just using the embedded audio from the ATEM.
So I can load more than 1 lower third into ATEM? I have seen at ATEM software only 2 media players on the right, but lots of windows on the left for different overlays. How do i choose them while live? Would i need to scroll through them with the well on the ATEM and then use DSK button to overlay chosen graphics as lower third?

TVS HD can store 20 stills, on the media page of the control software you can change which still each of the 2 media players is using. Not that convenient but probably can be done with macros.
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Piotr Poznanski

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Re: Overlays/Lower Thirds, Bugs and Stingers

PostSun Dec 03, 2017 11:43 pm

TVS HD can store 20 stills, on the media page of the control software you can change which still each of the 2 media players is using. Not that convenient but probably can be done with macros.


But can I choose them how? I would need to have a computer screen in front of me and choose them from atem controller? This is the thing i would like to avoid. As a one man show i need a way to press one button and have a lower third with my name appear and different button for lower third with the topic. Although I think I can just try to do a topic and name on the same lower third... But what button on ATEM would i use for bringing lower third loaded to media pool 1 and which to media pool 2? I can program themt? Or are all lower thirds done as downstream so that would be done with Dsk button?
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Howard Roll

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Re: Overlays/Lower Thirds, Bugs and Stingers

PostTue Dec 05, 2017 7:50 am

Piotr Poznanski wrote:
TVS HD can store 20 stills, on the media page of the control software you can change which still each of the 2 media players is using. Not that convenient but probably can be done with macros.


But can I choose them how?


Macros. How do you plan to switch cameras or monitor the social media aspect? At some point you need to be at least within spitting distance of a computer. I'd use a simple numeric keypad via usb.........or go crazy and use a foot pedal, next, next, next. Or if you're a Jedi use the force, barring that short of hiring a guy you're going to have to press some buttons.
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Grega Podrekar

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Re: Overlays/Lower Thirds, Bugs and Stingers

PostTue Dec 05, 2017 10:24 am

It is doable. Search for Ian Morrish. I use his VISE and MIDI controller for all operations. You can write a Powershell script and functions. You can bind this functions to MIDI controller buttons. It is pretty simple and fluid. I would do all switching with ATEM and output to decklink computer where vMix runs. I would add Lower thirds and overlays in vMix (animations, transparent, ...). But you could do it without vMix as well. You can make graphics in Photoshop and store them to 20 spots in ATEM. You loose animations and other fancy looks but it works.
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Andrew Martin

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Re: Overlays/Lower Thirds, Bugs and Stingers

PostTue Dec 05, 2017 2:32 pm

You could do this very easily with just macros and a small xkeys panel.
Just macros needs a little leaning, but for the effort you put in you'll be rewarded many times over.

A.
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Piotr Poznanski

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Re: Overlays/Lower Thirds, Bugs and Stingers

PostTue Dec 05, 2017 5:04 pm

I was thinking about x-keys yeah.

Then i can assign one button for "next" media and macros. Thus making all the buttons on ATEM switcher not needed. Ok. It would be nice if it was all possible with just ATEM, but ok.

Thanks for all your answers and patience with me.
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Daniel Binder

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Re: Overlays/Lower Thirds, Bugs and Stingers

PostTue Dec 12, 2017 7:49 pm

check out skaarhoj.com
they offer a whole variety of small hardware controllers that you can easily program as you need them (look for anything that supports unisketch and watch their videos to see how it works)
Their controllers are independent from any PC/laptop.
highly recommended.

cheers, daniel
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Scott Smith

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Re: Overlays/Lower Thirds, Bugs and Stingers

PostWed Dec 13, 2017 12:47 am

Not sure you want to go this way, but there is a plug-in for Photoshop that allows you to export to the ATEM. You can select the file, choose export, and make it the active image in MP1 or MP2. If you have someone working that computer with photoshop, they can use it like a live CG. Not as fast as some options, but it works.

Also, on your moving graphics, it is best to use a fill+key, which takes up two SDI ports. But it can be done with one, and a linear key, if your graphics are designed with this in mind. This would free up a couple of ports for you.

Lastly, you might take a look at ProPresenter. It has an optional SDI output module, as well as an optional alpha channel module. It would let you have a “CG person” sending the graphics you need as you need them, all on one channel+alpha (two SDIs), and they could be stills or motion graphics as needed.
Scott R Smith
BMD Stuff I use: ATEM 2-M/E, 4 x ATEM PS 4K, Broadcast Videohub, 6 Hyperdeck Pros, 4 Hyperdeck Shuttles, Multidock, Smartscope Duo, Smartview, Intensity Extreme, Decklink Studio, and lots of Miniconverters and Open Gear Converters.
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Howard Roll

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Re: Overlays/Lower Thirds, Bugs and Stingers

PostWed Dec 13, 2017 8:17 am

If your pipeline supports an alpha channel is there still any advantage to a traditional key/fill? Aren't you burning an input for nothing? I thought that was the whole point of an alpha channel.
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Asgeir Hustad

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Re: Overlays/Lower Thirds, Bugs and Stingers

PostWed Dec 13, 2017 10:05 am

Howard Roll wrote:If your pipeline supports an alpha channel is there still any advantage to a traditional key/fill? Aren't you burning an input for nothing? I thought that was the whole point of an alpha channel.


Key and Fill is nice if you have dynamically generated or moving content - like animated lower thirds, CG, stingers or other effects. The ATEM pipeline supports alpha for still graphics and a maximum of two stingers. This is often not enough if you want to do something more fancy :) It's perfectly fine for regular lower thirds who're often just faded in etc.

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