URSA Mini Pro Front SDI Tally and B4 Lenses in Windowed Sens

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Azuolas Sinkevicius

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URSA Mini Pro Front SDI Tally and B4 Lenses in Windowed Sens

PostThu Jan 04, 2018 6:11 am

Hi,
1. Blackmagic - would it be possible to enable the Tally window indicator to be passed onto the front SDI signal output? Currently with the Viewfinder you can only see it on the front of the unit (which a camera op can't see when operating the camera with the VW) and URSA Mini Pro LCD - but NOT on the SDI out.
This makes it extremely hard to use the cameras in the live environment.

2. Is there any possibility of either creating the upres for the windowed sensor with the B4 lenses so that the SDI output can put out 4K? If not can you at least enable the 2K output on the SDI?
I am assuming the optics can't be fixed to support full 4K without cropping either? I've been using the MTF services M4/3 to B4 optical adapter (which does a proper correction for the prism) and it works very well in UHD, no windowing etc.

thank you
AS
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Denny Smith

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Re: URSA Mini Pro Front SDI Tally and B4 Lenses in Windowed

PostThu Jan 04, 2018 6:31 am

1. This is a BM User forum, you will have to send this question directly to BM Support as a feature request.

2. When using a B4 lens, you need to use window mode, which crops the sensor to either HD or 2K resolution, as a B4 lens projected image circle with the B4 Mount/lens can not cover the 4K window, or the full 4.6 sensor area. Some HD B4 lenses will cover the 2K window, so yiu can use the 2K window and get 2K output to the SDI. The camera does not upscale the video signal from the windowed mode, so you can not get 4K output. This is a hardware limitation of the camera.

That said, you can upscale the Video in post production in some NLEs to get 4K from HD or the 2K file.
DS
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Matt Certa

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Re: URSA Mini Pro Front SDI Tally and B4 Lenses in Windowed

PostFri Jan 05, 2018 3:39 pm

the BM viewfinder can be set to show the Tally rectangle from the front SDI output but its in a goofy menu and not activated from the camera itself. Its in the viewfinder menu.

And as well tally only will work on BM products. No 3rd party monitors.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: URSA Mini Pro Front SDI Tally and B4 Lenses in Windowed

PostFri Jan 05, 2018 3:54 pm

Matt Certa wrote:And as well tally only will work on BM products. No 3rd party monitors.

This is because of the ANC Data tally. Which is a data protocol and not an onscreen border.. Like the Atem Camera fiber converters had.

Denny Smith wrote: When using a B4 lens, you need to use window mode, which crops the sensor to either HD or 2K resolution, as a B4 lens projected image circle with the B4 Mount/lens can not cover the 4K window, or the full 4.6 sensor area. Some HD B4 lenses will cover the 2K window, so yiu can use the 2K window and get 2K output to the SDI. The camera does not upscale the video signal from the windowed mode, so you can not get 4K output. This is a hardware limitation of the camera.

That said, you can upscale the Video in post production in some NLEs to get 4K from HD or the 2K file.
DS

Well that it will not cover the full sensor with a B4 lens oke.. But internal upscale to be compatible with 12G output would make a nice addition. (And would be possible.. As the sdi port can also scale down from 4K to HD on it's output port. )
Why in the ... Would you want 12G output running a B4 lens?? :twisted:
:mrgreen: Well Imaging you are running a 4K show with ursa's.. Most of them with a EF or PL lens running 4K without a problem.. But that 1 / 2 cameras on FOH.. Need a big box lens.. (66x/72x or bigger..) But because theAtem needs all sources to run the same Resolution and Framerate.. Now you are in trouble because your Crop mode will push you into 1080P from a camera standpoint.
So to match the Atem you will apply a Teranex AV between it just for the upscaling to match the Atem resolution..
And there we go.. Adding a few more frames on the FOH cameras because of the external conversion.
Internal conversion into 1080P or 3840P output will probabbly be way more faster... ;)
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Denny Smith

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Re: URSA Mini Pro Front SDI Tally and B4 Lenses in Windowed

PostFri Jan 05, 2018 7:25 pm

Good point Daniel, I was not thinking in terms of multi-camera config on a ATEM. Yes, I agree, being able to upscale the signal would be nice in this situation. Otherwise in a single camera shooting situation, upscale in Resolve would be better, no?
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Xtreemtec

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Re: URSA Mini Pro Front SDI Tally and B4 Lenses in Windowed

PostFri Jan 05, 2018 8:28 pm

Yes on film jobs upscaling in post will be the way to go.. So recording in 4K while sensing windowed is to no use..

But i wish you would be able to enable 12G output for live situations..
We had a 4K multicam job last year with a FS7 and Fujinon PL 25-300.. (Biggest lens we could rent in this country)
Giving you on a 4K window not so much zoom as you would like. I think we calculated it back to 12x zoom or something... :roll:
While for that $400 a day lens i could have had a X86 box lens... Giving me the option to see the nosehairs of the artists.. :lol: :D
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Denny Smith

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Re: URSA Mini Pro Front SDI Tally and B4 Lenses in Windowed

PostFri Jan 05, 2018 8:31 pm

ThanksDaniel, that was my thought. With that box lens, you could track a fly and fill the frame. :roll:
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Azuolas Sinkevicius

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Re: URSA Mini Pro Front SDI Tally and B4 Lenses in Windowed

PostFri Jan 19, 2018 3:24 pm

Matt Certa wrote:the BM viewfinder can be set to show the Tally rectangle from the front SDI output but its in a goofy menu and not activated from the camera itself. Its in the viewfinder menu.

And as well tally only will work on BM products. No 3rd party monitors.


I reached out to Blackmagic Support. This does NOT work on the Blackmagic Viewfinder and this option is not available in the menu.
Tech Support rep filled out a feature request on my behalf but as it stands now its not possible for the camera op using a viewfinder to know when he/she is on or not.
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Denny Smith

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Re: URSA Mini Pro Front SDI Tally and B4 Lenses in Windowed

PostFri Jan 19, 2018 6:43 pm

Talley on the Ursa and Ursa Mini does works with the BM EVF, but not any of the VA monitors. From my understanding, talley does work with the EVF, giving a red rectangle when the camera is live, but the camera needs to be connected to an ATEM, to get the live Talley signal feed, as Daniel pointed out. It also works with the BM Ursa Studio Monitor, which also has a talent Talley light.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Azuolas Sinkevicius

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Re: URSA Mini Pro Front SDI Tally and B4 Lenses in Windowed

PostSat Jan 20, 2018 1:45 am

Hi,
I am using ATEM and the URSA Mini does give you a red rectangle on the built in monitor -so I do know the camera is getting tally info back from ATEM when it's live.
If anyone knows what needs to be performed on the EVF to see this I would love to know.
I spoke with two BM US support folks and they both were sure that this is not the case and this feature is not available at the moment.
I would appreciate if someone could share the steps how to get it to work if they have it up and running on their end.
thank you
AS
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Matt Certa

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Re: URSA Mini Pro Front SDI Tally and B4 Lenses in Windowed

PostSat Jan 20, 2018 2:54 am

1. In the viewfinder menu. goto Setup> Grid On. The tally will appear there.
2. also make sure the viewfinder firmware is up to date with the camera or this can affect it working.
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Azuolas Sinkevicius

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Re: URSA Mini Pro Front SDI Tally and B4 Lenses in Windowed

PostSun Jan 21, 2018 2:39 am

Matt
That worked. Thank you for the info!
AS

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