Lower third with black text

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Matt Simpson

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Lower third with black text

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 9:04 pm

I have a lower third video created with text in black. In keying this to go over a camera shot the black text is being cut out. What's the right combo of keying and video to get the text to stay black. The video was exported as a ProRes 4444 file.

I am on the Television Studio HD.

Thanks
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Duncan Stewart

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Re: Lower third with black text

PostSat Feb 10, 2018 10:38 am

Many ways to do this.
With video you need a separate FILL (video) and KEY (cutout signal) as SDI into the switcher on two separate inputs. Or use a preset pattern on the keyer to cutout the video, or chromakey.
If the cutout is complicated but doesn't animate you can store the cutout in a media player but use a video input for the fill.
Alternatively you can run it all in from media players by importing a tga or TIFF sequence or still from a RGBAlpha exported file. The RGB and Alpha would look a bit like this
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Thomas Seewald

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Re: Lower third with black text

PostSat Feb 10, 2018 11:02 am

Hi Matt,

as Duncan wrote, you need separate key and fill signals. He gave a real good workaround.

How did you feed the graphics into the TVS HD ? For feeding the graphics from a computer, you need a program, which can handle key/fill (e.g. CasparCG) and additional video cards. Or you use the new Hyperdeck Mini, which is able to playback files with alpha and send the signals over two cables to the TVS HD. (Two inputs needed !). I know this new feature only from BM advertising, so I can‘t give more infos about this.

Duncan, has th New TVS HD the ability to show sequences ? I thought, this only works with bigger ATEMs ... My „old“ TVS can only show still graphics.
thos-berlin - Thomas S e e w a l d
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Duncan Stewart

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Re: Lower third with black text

PostSat Feb 10, 2018 12:37 pm

Thomas Seewald wrote:Duncan, has th New TVS HD the ability to show sequences ? I thought, this only works with bigger ATEMs ... My „old“ TVS can only show still graphics.

Apologies - you're quite right. It's stills only on the Television Studio HD
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Matt Simpson

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Re: Lower third with black text

PostMon Feb 19, 2018 1:37 am

Thanks for the replies. The graphics I have created are animating on and off screen so I don't think I can use the static images as a solution. I will probably just figure out a work around in the design of them.
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Thomas Seewald

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Re: Lower third with black text

PostMon Feb 19, 2018 4:07 pm

You didn't say anything about how you plan to send the graphics to the mixer and you also didn't say anything about the device playing the graphics. So we can't give any detailed advise....

A recommended info would be like:

"I want to play my ProRes 4444 file using VLC by computers (MAC/PC) secondary HDMI out to ATEM."
thos-berlin - Thomas S e e w a l d
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Matt Simpson

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Re: Lower third with black text

PostMon Feb 19, 2018 9:52 pm

It would be a ProRess 4444 file from ProPresenter. I'm trying to keep it as easy as possible so does the other input need to be a static image or would it need to match the animations of the lower third?
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Thomas Seewald

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Re: Lower third with black text

PostTue Feb 20, 2018 10:28 am

Sorry, I don‘t have Propresenter, but I‘m sure, that it can handle files with alpha channel. But for transmitting it to the ATEM you will need two connections, one for key and one for fill.

I kick the ball to the Propresenter users, which can say, which hardware is needed.
thos-berlin - Thomas S e e w a l d
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Matt Simpson

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Re: Lower third with black text

PostTue Feb 20, 2018 3:04 pm

Yes, it plays the 4444 files fine, just not sure how to handle the key for the animated graphic.
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Scott Smith

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Re: Lower third with black text

PostTue Feb 20, 2018 6:52 pm

Propresenter has an extra module you must purchase to enable the Alpha channel. Have you done that?

Some duplication of stuff already said, but.......
Next, creating animations often requires creating them with animated alpha channels to make them work correct - depending on transparency and such. You can create animations that fall within a fixed area, where a static alpha channel is sufficient for that particular animation. Example is a lower third banner where the elements inside the banner are opaque and moving, but the area in which the animation occurs is fixed. For this, you could put a fixed png or tga of the white and black alpha channel into the ATEM's media player and link it as the key source to the propresenter playback's key fill. Complex animations that contain motion that extends beyond a fixed area would need to be created with a moving alpha, and have the Propresenter Alpha Module purchased. The creation of them needs to be done in software capable of outputting ProRes4444 with an Alpha channel (and obviously, created that way.)

Oh, in case you aren't already doing this.....you also need a decklink or other propresenter compatible piece of hardware to output the signal from the Mac. This isn't going to work if you are just taking an HDMI from your computer. You'll also have to buy their SDI output module for that to work.

Supported devices: https://support.renewedvision.com/artic ... ic-devices
SDI Module ($99): https://support.renewedvision.com/artic ... resenter-6
Alpha Module ($999): https://support.renewedvision.com/artic ... resenter-6
Additional Alpha Module info: https://renewedvision.com/propresenter/ ... lpha-keyer
Last edited by Scott Smith on Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Scott R Smith
BMD Stuff I use: ATEM 2-M/E, 4 x ATEM PS 4K, Broadcast Videohub, 6 Hyperdeck Pros, 4 Hyperdeck Shuttles, Multidock, Smartscope Duo, Smartview, Intensity Extreme, Decklink Studio, and lots of Miniconverters and Open Gear Converters.
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Scott Smith

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Re: Lower third with black text

PostTue Feb 20, 2018 7:12 pm

Optionally, the same properly created ProRes4444 file should play out of a Hyperdeck Studio Mini off of SD cards with a key and fill for $695. It just isn't as user friendly for playing out lots of graphics for a live show as a software solution like propresenter.
Scott R Smith
BMD Stuff I use: ATEM 2-M/E, 4 x ATEM PS 4K, Broadcast Videohub, 6 Hyperdeck Pros, 4 Hyperdeck Shuttles, Multidock, Smartscope Duo, Smartview, Intensity Extreme, Decklink Studio, and lots of Miniconverters and Open Gear Converters.

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