ATEM 1 M/E 2 of 3 Aux outputs failed

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Jeff Klein

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ATEM 1 M/E 2 of 3 Aux outputs failed

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 6:15 pm

Hi folks,
I've got an original HD ATEM 1 M/E and over the course of the last couple of years we've lost two aux outputs. We usually only use 1, so we had one fail a year or so ago and I just changed to an alternate output. Recently we had a need to use 2 aux outs, so I connected the remaining "good" output and it apparently failed sometime since.

We're currently still running v4.2 as we have a few Windows 32bit machines running remote control of one thing or another (yeah, I know, but we're a church...donate us some money <g>). I'd heard of some folks having firmware bugs that give various outputs issues, but I don't think v4.2 was one of them, and these were all working at one point.

I'm wondering if there are any steps I can take to fix them, such as super secret resets and tricks, or even just replacing a circuit board (is there an Aux circuit board?). I'm a former electronics tech and my day job is commercial AV, so I'm pretty comfy around all that.

I plan to upgrade to a 4K 1 M/E next year simply due to wanting more inputs, so I'd like to make this last another year if I could.

Thanks for any ideas,
Jeff
Jeff Klein, DMC-E
Baltimore, Maryland

Record PC: Windows 7 Pro 64bit HP Z400 with Decklink SDI and USB 3.0 card.
Control PC: Windows 10 32bit Dell Optiplex for ATEM Software Control (no desk)
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Xtreemtec

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Re: ATEM 1 M/E 2 of 3 Aux outputs failed

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 7:05 pm

Jeff i would keep it running for another year if nothing else fails in the meantime. THe old 1ME's were notorish for there heat issues and on board power circuits fail due to overstressed by heat..

It is 1 X layers multilayer pcb and hardly nothing you can repair yourself on those units.

Sometimes going to a different firmware version will give you options back because of a reflash and config of some components.. Whatever you do.. DONT!! install 4.6 This will kill all analog and downscaled outputs on the old 1me. And they dont come back after a different firmware... Units had to go to BMD for a swap. :?

If you are fine with the way it runs now.. Keep it like that.. Those older machines are maybe better to keep this way then to try a update. Because if it fails. nobody can help you and it is a trow away as the Support is gone on those units.
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV, ATEM TVS HD, 1M/E 4K, 2M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Hyperdeck Studio Mini, SONY FS7 4K, Ursa Broadcast 4K
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Jeff Klein

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Re: ATEM 1 M/E 2 of 3 Aux outputs failed

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 7:23 pm

Yeah, I was afraid of that, since these old ones are so thin I suspected they might be one big board. Oh well, I can do with it for now, but that second Aux output would have been nice. We're building a separate audio mixing room (closet) for our Youtube Livestream so I wanted to run a 2nd Aux output to them so they can lock it to a wideview to see what the stage folks are doing (to cue mics and such). The current aux output feeds our backstage TVs via an old analog CATV modulator, but they're not as critical...I'll just give them a program view for now once I re-do the feeds with HD/SDI cable and micro converters.

I will say, I've been pretty impressed during some of our upgrades we're doing how resilient SDI is...granted we're only running our ATEM at 720p (recommended YouTube Live res), but it doesn't seem to care what cable you run it over. I was testing the current backstage TV feeds, so for giggles I slapped an SDI/HDMI micro converter on the TV and sent it a 720p HD/SDI feed over the existing aluminum RG6 CATV cable...and even at about 125' or so it just friggin' worked lol. I was *not* expecting that.

Thanks,
Jeff
Jeff Klein, DMC-E
Baltimore, Maryland

Record PC: Windows 7 Pro 64bit HP Z400 with Decklink SDI and USB 3.0 card.
Control PC: Windows 10 32bit Dell Optiplex for ATEM Software Control (no desk)
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Xtreemtec

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Re: ATEM 1 M/E 2 of 3 Aux outputs failed

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 9:11 pm

Well 1,5G -sdi (1280x720P50/60) is very forgiving.. :D
I never tryed this.. But i guess it "could" even run a few meters network cable if really in need.. :lol:
Says the broadcast engineer that is changing all cables for 12G cabling :D :lol:
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV, ATEM TVS HD, 1M/E 4K, 2M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Hyperdeck Studio Mini, SONY FS7 4K, Ursa Broadcast 4K
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Jeff Klein

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Re: ATEM 1 M/E 2 of 3 Aux outputs failed

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 9:15 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:Well 1,5G -sdi (1280x720P50/60) is very forgiving.. :D
I never tryed this.. But i guess it "could" even run a few meters network cable if really in need.. :lol:
Says the broadcast engineer that is changing all cables for 12G cabling :D :lol:


lol, yeah, true, but I was still surprised. I've got SDI cable for most everything else, but this makes replacing these few old cables a little less critical :)

Thanks,
Jeff
Jeff Klein, DMC-E
Baltimore, Maryland

Record PC: Windows 7 Pro 64bit HP Z400 with Decklink SDI and USB 3.0 card.
Control PC: Windows 10 32bit Dell Optiplex for ATEM Software Control (no desk)
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Scott Smith

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Re: ATEM 1 M/E 2 of 3 Aux outputs failed

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 9:24 pm

LOL. You are running HDSDI over cheap CATV RG-6. Meanwhile, I replaced my CATV RG6 in my house with Belden 1694a. MUCH more signal strength at the end runs.
Scott R Smith
BMD Stuff I use: ATEM 2-M/E, 4 x ATEM PS 4K, Broadcast Videohub, 6 Hyperdeck Pros, 4 Hyperdeck Shuttles, Multidock, Smartscope Duo, Smartview, Intensity Extreme, Decklink Studio, and lots of Miniconverters and Open Gear Converters.
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Re: ATEM 1 M/E 2 of 3 Aux outputs failed

PostSat Feb 24, 2018 2:53 am

Scott Smith wrote:LOL. You are running HDSDI over cheap CATV RG-6. Meanwhile, I replaced my CATV RG6 in my house with Belden 1694a. MUCH more signal strength at the end runs.


Yeah, I was surprised that old aluminum cable worked for baseband video at all, especially at that length. But, for simple backstage cue monitoring I'm not too worried about it. All of my critical runs are SDI rated.

I'm surprised how well the Belden works for you...CATV requires aluminum shielded RG6 with copper clad steel core for best performance, but hey, it if works it works :)

Jeff
Jeff Klein, DMC-E
Baltimore, Maryland

Record PC: Windows 7 Pro 64bit HP Z400 with Decklink SDI and USB 3.0 card.
Control PC: Windows 10 32bit Dell Optiplex for ATEM Software Control (no desk)
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Scott Smith

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Re: ATEM 1 M/E 2 of 3 Aux outputs failed

PostTue Feb 27, 2018 4:26 pm

I believe the "best performance" for CATV using a copper-clad steel center conductor isn't about signal performance. It is about physical strength performance, as CATV is often subjected to the strains of direct burial, stringing from telephone poles, etc. Not to mention cost. Cable companies prefer cheap.

The signal strength is greatly improved by the use of copper. I have done this on many occasions, and typically seen a gain of 3 or more dB over a 100' run by switching to 1694-A. In my house, it was the difference of the cable modem working and not working and the video on higher channels on the TV frequently freezing or playing smoothly.
Scott R Smith
BMD Stuff I use: ATEM 2-M/E, 4 x ATEM PS 4K, Broadcast Videohub, 6 Hyperdeck Pros, 4 Hyperdeck Shuttles, Multidock, Smartscope Duo, Smartview, Intensity Extreme, Decklink Studio, and lots of Miniconverters and Open Gear Converters.
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Re: ATEM 1 M/E 2 of 3 Aux outputs failed

PostTue Feb 27, 2018 5:31 pm

Scott Smith wrote:I believe the "best performance" for CATV using a copper-clad steel center conductor isn't about signal performance. It is about physical strength performance, as CATV is often subjected to the strains of direct burial, stringing from telephone poles, etc. Not to mention cost. Cable companies prefer cheap.


I suspect that is at least in part true, although they use aluminum indoors as well. Probably due to cost savings, and aluminum is still good at shielding signals in the MHz/GHz range.

The signal strength is greatly improved by the use of copper. I have done this on many occasions, and typically seen a gain of 3 or more dB over a 100' run by switching to 1694-A. In my house, it was the difference of the cable modem working and not working and the video on higher channels on the TV frequently freezing or playing smoothly.


Actually that makes perfect sense, as copper has almost twice the signal carrying capacity of aluminum. I would have thought you might have issues with RF interference but a quick look at copper shielding's effective range puts it all the way up into the Microwave range, which would cover CATV RF ranges just fine.

Whelp, I'm convinced...it does appear that lower cost is probably the biggest driving factor for aluminum shielded copper clad center conductor cabling being spec'd for CATV. If the price increase isnt' a deal breaker, and the need is there for greater signal strength over length, it's a good choice :)

Thanks,
Jeff
Jeff Klein, DMC-E
Baltimore, Maryland

Record PC: Windows 7 Pro 64bit HP Z400 with Decklink SDI and USB 3.0 card.
Control PC: Windows 10 32bit Dell Optiplex for ATEM Software Control (no desk)
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Re: ATEM 1 M/E 2 of 3 Aux outputs failed

PostTue Feb 27, 2018 5:35 pm

Funny part is that the specs at around 2Ghz clearly show the 1694 as better - but only by around a half a dB/100feet. But I typically see around 3dB difference when switching to it for CATV. Somehow, the specs are insufficient in the real world to show the difference.

(it makes little difference in the lower channels. Only for the higher ones, the On Demand services, and internets.)

It is certainly possible i have a little more RF leakage into or out of the cable, but i don't notice that as a problem anywhere. What is very noticeable is insufficient signal strength. 1694 does have that extra aluminum foil shield in there. I'm sure it helps with interference as well.

3dB is DOUBLE the signal. It is a huge difference.

FYI, I've also used it on Satellite signals, both direcTV as well as Ku and C band dishes at TV stations, coming off of the LNB as baseband video. It also has a FAR greater ability to handle the DC current for powering LNBs on satellite dishes than aluminum and CCSteel.
Scott R Smith
BMD Stuff I use: ATEM 2-M/E, 4 x ATEM PS 4K, Broadcast Videohub, 6 Hyperdeck Pros, 4 Hyperdeck Shuttles, Multidock, Smartscope Duo, Smartview, Intensity Extreme, Decklink Studio, and lots of Miniconverters and Open Gear Converters.
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Jeff Klein

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Re: ATEM 1 M/E 2 of 3 Aux outputs failed

PostTue Feb 27, 2018 6:15 pm

Scott Smith wrote: It is certainly possible i have a little more RF leakage into or out of the cable, but i don't notice that as a problem anywhere. What is very noticeable is insufficient signal strength. 1694 does have that extra aluminum foil shield in there. I'm sure it helps with interference as well.


Oh I missed that, you're right! I thought it was just copper braid...so yeah, kinda best of both worlds there.

3dB is DOUBLE the signal. It is a huge difference.


Yep, that follows with aluminum being rated as 60% of copper's signal carrying capacity (for the same wire gage).

FYI, I've also used it on Satellite signals, both direcTV as well as Ku and C band dishes at TV stations, coming off of the LNB as baseband video. It also has a FAR greater ability to handle the DC current for powering LNBs on satellite dishes than aluminum and CCSteel.


Good to know. I'm sure the solid copper center conductor helps with the DC current handling over steel, less voltage drop per foot :)
Jeff Klein, DMC-E
Baltimore, Maryland

Record PC: Windows 7 Pro 64bit HP Z400 with Decklink SDI and USB 3.0 card.
Control PC: Windows 10 32bit Dell Optiplex for ATEM Software Control (no desk)

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