Adding extra video delay to ATEM switcher. Ideas ?

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Alexander Kinov

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Adding extra video delay to ATEM switcher. Ideas ?

PostSun Mar 11, 2018 1:43 pm

Hi all! I know my question is strange, since everyone is trying to minimize the video delay in ATEM switchers, but my needs are specific.
I'm doing moto-cross event next week and I need to find solution fast. Along with my normal setup (incl. 3 Canon XF 205 camcorders) I will have to use two camera drones. Only one of them will fly, the second will be replacement, when the first one needs to land for changing the battery.
The problem with the drones is that their signal arrives at the ground receiving station with a little delay. I don't know any way to speed up this signal or sync it to the switcher, so the only solution I can think of is to add some video delay to the 3 ground cameras. But I don't know how.
If I can do that, I can compensate the audio/video delay with extra audio delay from the digital audio mixer (there is a way to do that).
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Adding extra video delay to ATEM switcher. Ideas ?

PostSun Mar 11, 2018 2:12 pm

I'm not sure why you want to delay that.. The delay on those wireless (depending on the system will be anything between 20ms and 400ms.. Depending on if you have a anlog wireless system or digital encoded wireless... But in both situations it wont be very notishable..

You might even want to use the Drone shots for your slomo system.. Ingest them into Vmix and replay them in slomo for nice airtime shots.. :D
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV, ATEM TVS HD, 1M/E 4K, 2M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Hyperdeck Studio Mini, SONY FS7 4K, Ursa Broadcast 4K
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Tim Douglas

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Re: Adding extra video delay to ATEM switcher. Ideas ?

PostSun Mar 11, 2018 2:58 pm

Surely the wireless delay will vary with conditions so you wont be able to sync it anyway, right?
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Alexander Kinov

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Re: Adding extra video delay to ATEM switcher. Ideas ?

PostSun Mar 11, 2018 7:47 pm

The thing is, I never worked with drones before. I had to edit lots of recorded footage from drone, but I never had to connect one to video switcher and use it the same way as we use normal cameras. So I don't have any experience. All I know and all I checked is that the video output I get from the drone receiver will match the input settings of my switcher. The director who will work with us, said that there might be delay from the drones and asked me if I can delay the other cameras. He doesn't know how much will be the delay. Also, no one from our crew knows how the drone sends the signal to the ground station - analog, digital, radio, wifi, mobile internet or something else. I think this is important. For example once we had to broadcast live marathon. We had few cameras, but not enough cables, so one of the cameras used transmitter-receiver with few SIM cards for mobile internet. There was like 7 seconds delay on that camera, but it wasn't problem, since there was really long distance between all the cameras and they were showing different parts of the track.
I guess we'll find out on set. But thanks for the good idea, Xtreemtec. I think we may try to use some slowmo footage. The drone may be actually used as some sort of highlight repeater (combined with vmix), since we still don't have repeater in our system. Other than that, our producer (who knows about possible technical troubles), said that the main ground cameras will get detailed view of the bikes and the drones can make...um....forgot the english word - the opposite thing of close up - not so detailed view. Maybe even the whole area. So if there is noticeable delay it may be not visible if the drone doesn't show detailed view (although it might be good to follow some of the bikes or show detailed view of areas that are not well covered by the ground cameras). We'll see :)
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Adding extra video delay to ATEM switcher. Ideas ?

PostSun Mar 11, 2018 7:56 pm

Well we did a Drone wars event 2 weeks back.. Got 4 live feeds from the drones.. But these were all "analog" feeds.. So a lot of noise and failing video.. Composite output from the receivers.. So we put Multi2sdi converters between them to scale analog video to digital SDI in the resolution we were working on.

These drone could be running with a Connex system which is a HDMI digital link. Or any other digital HDMI link for that matter.

I would not invest heavily on delaying all cameras because of the little delay that comes from the drones.. It won't be 4G. So it won't be 7 seconds,.. Anything in the range of 20 - 500ms i think.. And even at 500ms when used smart (first handcam then drone shot) it will be very oke.. As it does it's own "replay" :lol:
I think you will be suprised how well it goes.. Very differently when you have a wireless camera men in front of a stage at a live concert.. Then lipsync will kill you.. But i think in this situation you will be very oke with a small delay.
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV, ATEM TVS HD, 1M/E 4K, 2M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Hyperdeck Studio Mini, SONY FS7 4K, Ursa Broadcast 4K
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Alexander Kinov

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Re: Adding extra video delay to ATEM switcher. Ideas ?

PostSun Mar 11, 2018 8:16 pm

Thank you very much! :)
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Daniel Binder

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Re: Adding extra video delay to ATEM switcher. Ideas ?

PostMon Mar 12, 2018 4:08 pm

As mentioned, check out the Amimon Connex Fusion system. We have two of those for our mobile steadicams, but they are actually a drone system. The delay is less than 1ms. Signals have been very stable. Range is supposedly up to 1km under ideal circumstances. Used on the ground in the city we get about 300m out of it.
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Alexander Kinov

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Re: Adding extra video delay to ATEM switcher. Ideas ?

PostTue Mar 13, 2018 8:09 am

Daniel Binder wrote:As mentioned, check out the Amimon Connex Fusion system. We have two of those for our mobile steadicams, but they are actually a drone system. The delay is less than 1ms. Signals have been very stable. Range is supposedly up to 1km under ideal circumstances. Used on the ground in the city we get about 300m out of it.

This system could be good investment for the future, also for steadycams (cause we just ordered one), but for now we don't have drones and we don't plan to buy any. For this certain event we hire another (drone) company with all the needed equipment and drone operators, so I'll find out what system they use on the first day of the event.

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