UMP or UMB no adjustable line level?

Questions about ATEM Switchers, Camera Converter and everything live!
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Robert Betzner

  • Posts: 441
  • Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:54 am
  • Location: Cologne, Germany

UMP or UMB no adjustable line level?

PostMon May 21, 2018 9:30 pm

Hi,

I just discovered that if I switch the UMP or the UMB to line level on the XLR inputs, you can't adjust the level anymore. The faders in the menu are greyed out and the knobs on the LCD panel aren't working. Is this on purpose? I never had any camera that forced me to a fixed line level input!?

There are many examples where you would need to adjust the line level, like if you get sound from FOH or if you get sound from a non professional -10dB source. Why is it not possible to adjust the level if the camera is switched to line input?


Cheers

Robert
Offline

Ian Henderson

  • Posts: 208
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:05 am
  • Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Re: UMP or UMB no adjustable line level?

PostMon May 21, 2018 9:55 pm

Isn’t line level supposed to bypass the preamps?
Offline

Robert Betzner

  • Posts: 441
  • Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:54 am
  • Location: Cologne, Germany

Re: UMP or UMB no adjustable line level?

PostTue May 22, 2018 6:35 am

That would make no sense on a camera (UMB) that is designed to do ENG work. If you ever recorded a press conference with distributed sound you know what I mean.

We had and still have many ENG cameras here from Sony (PDW800, PDW700) and Panasonic (HPX500, HPX3000, HPX3100). None of them does this. On all of these cameras you can adjust the incoming line level. This is a must in ENG work.


Cheers

Robert
Offline

Denny Smith

  • Posts: 13131
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:19 pm
  • Location: USA, Northern Calif.

Re: UMP or UMB no adjustable line level?

PostWed May 23, 2018 1:35 am

To adjust the line level on the UM, you need a small preamp between the camera and line level input. The camera is set to a Pro balanced line in at Unity, +4dB, which is the balanced broadcast audio line level setting. Most mixers can be set to Unity, and the camera/mixer levels match up. The mic preamps in the camera are by-passed when set to line level, the camera pots only adjust the mic preamps. This works the same on the BM Broadcast Cameras also.
Cheers.
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
Offline

Robert Betzner

  • Posts: 441
  • Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:54 am
  • Location: Cologne, Germany

Re: UMP or UMB no adjustable line level?

PostWed May 23, 2018 2:26 pm

That makes no sense for a camera that is designed to do ENG work. That is a big show stopper for all who want to use the camera for ENG.

You've got plenty of situations where you need to adjust line level on the camera while doing ENG work. And I don't know any other professional camera from any vendor that doesn't allow you to adjust the line level. BMD is "unique" in this case.


Cheers

Robert
Offline

David Hutchinson

  • Posts: 455
  • Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:00 am
  • Location: East Yorkshire, UK

Re: UMP or UMB no adjustable line level?

PostWed May 23, 2018 8:03 pm

I thought surely there must be a mistake, this cant be true so I had to go and check myself. Yep it's true and I have to say this is the first dissapointment with the camera.

While usually you can adjust the levels coming out of a mixer its not always possible.

I'm not even sure it's fixable in firmware as if no physical amp is in the signal path.......
Offline

Denny Smith

  • Posts: 13131
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:19 pm
  • Location: USA, Northern Calif.

Re: UMP or UMB no adjustable line level?

PostThu May 24, 2018 5:59 am

There is a line level balancing amp that is set to Unity level, I believe. However, the camera level pots only control the mic pre amps. I control the line levels on my setup with a Sound Devices Mix Pre which can set inluts to Mic or Line level and control the input levels to the line outputs. Much better control, with added L/R pan controls and mono or stereo mix down.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
Offline

Kevin McGrath

  • Posts: 108
  • Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:26 am
  • Location: St. John's Newfoundland CANADA

Re: UMP or UMB no adjustable line level?

PostThu May 24, 2018 7:04 am

Take a -30db pad and put it at the source and connect to mic level instead then you have controllable mic levels

I have been doing this for years Always had one in my kit saved me several times
Atem tvs , studio converter 4 camera converters, hyperdeck,40x40 videohub. Master control, jvc gy hm700 &170 Jvc gy hm 150 Panasonic aw he50 aw he 2
Panasonic hpx 300. Panasonic hpx 2000 Sony pdw 350 Panasonic HPD24
Offline

David Hutchinson

  • Posts: 455
  • Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:00 am
  • Location: East Yorkshire, UK

Re: UMP or UMB no adjustable line level?

PostThu May 31, 2018 10:13 am

OK so as I become more familiar with the Broadcast camera I realise we may have overlooked that there is an inbuilt -20db XLR input pad which works with both mic and line level.

So even though there isn't fine control over the line level input you can at least reduce it if it's too high.
Offline

Ian Henderson

  • Posts: 208
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:05 am
  • Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Re: UMP or UMB no adjustable line level?

PostThu May 31, 2018 10:16 am

Great. I was in the audio world before coming to video, and my understanding of line level was always that it bypasses the preamps, and goes directly into the console.
Offline

Denny Smith

  • Posts: 13131
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:19 pm
  • Location: USA, Northern Calif.

Re: UMP or UMB no adjustable line level?

PostThu May 31, 2018 5:02 pm

That is my take on this also Ian, all the mixers I have used (Sony Pro, Mackie, and older Broadcast mixers) line level inputs are not feed through the preamps, which are for low level mic inputs only. Some mixers have a line level trim pot, which are basically variable pads, but the input goes directly to the processing amp.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions

Return to Live Production

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Russmun and 49 guests