23.98p over 59.94psf how to convert back to 23.98p

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Evan Daum

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23.98p over 59.94psf how to convert back to 23.98p

PostWed Jul 11, 2018 9:46 pm

I use the Panasonic UX90 with my ATEM, which is great expect that it will only output 59.94psf HD when shooting 4k internally (it won't output straight 23.98p HD when in 4k mode, though it will when it's in HD mode). I am testing using an MDHX to convert back to 23.98p to go in to the ATEM, and it seems to be working, but I'm concerned about how the field cadences get unwrapped in that scenario. I can't get ANY info on the MDHX's 2:3 removal, and I don't quite understand how you can have a 59.94psf signal with 23.98p on it. Isn't that the same thing as 1080i with a 2:3? What's the difference? Does anyone have any insight in to how this should work? Thanks.
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Howard Roll

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Re: 23.98p over 59.94psf how to convert back to 23.98p

PostWed Jul 11, 2018 10:20 pm

When you say PsF do you mean 60p or 60i? You don't actually have a 59.94 PsF signal from the camera, that's only for 30p. Your signal is probably as you suspect, 1080i with a pulldown. I wouldn't bother converting it back to 23.98 unless you have a bunch of other 23.98 sources. You're adding too many conversion steps.

24p material output from camera 60i
MDX converting back to 24p
24p output of Atem converted back to 60 in the display

You are essentially going back and forth twice. Let the camera convert it to 60 and be done with it unless you have a compelling reason to do otherwise.
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Evan Daum

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Re: 23.98p over 59.94psf how to convert back to 23.98p

PostWed Jul 11, 2018 10:28 pm

I am running the switcher at 23.98p, and that's the framerate the camera is shooting, and that's what I want to end up with. The output and mode of the switcher is 23.98p. If you look at page 68 on the link below, it's 59.94Psf coming out of the camera when running 23.98p at UHD (weird I know). There's also the option of 1080i, but I want to stay progressive through the switcher and for streaming. I'm just wondering if there's any advantage to using the 59.94psf over the 59.94i. I don't understand the difference between 1080i and psf if you have 23.98 content. What's annoying is the camera WILL output clean 23.98p when you're in HD mode, works perfectly with the ATEM, but not when your in UHD mode on the camera. You can get 23.98p UHD, but not 23.98p HD when shooting UHD internally.

https://eww.pass.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av ... _59.94.pdf
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Howard Roll

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Re: 23.98p over 59.94psf how to convert back to 23.98p

PostThu Jul 12, 2018 1:14 am

I looked at it. The HDMI output when recording 4K is either 60p or 60i. 23.98 PsF is 48i and is a rarely used format today, 59.94PsF is not a thing. I prefer progressive formats as well but you're going back and forth so maybe 60i would be best as a 3:2 pulldown and it's reverse are known quantities.

Good Luck
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Evan Daum

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Re: 23.98p over 59.94psf how to convert back to 23.98p

PostThu Jul 12, 2018 1:40 am

I just did some more testing, and the 60p output looks MUCH better than the 1080i output when being converted to 23.98p thru the MDHX. The 1080i image has a very noticeable blur to it, but the 60p version is crystal clear. Thanks for the help, appreciate it.
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Evan Daum

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Re: 23.98p over 59.94psf how to convert back to 23.98p

PostThu Jul 12, 2018 4:30 pm

One more bit of info, if I put the camera in 23.98p HD mode, and record internally at 23.98p 1080, you now have 3 options for the HDMI output on the camera. The options are labelled in the camera's menu as "System", "1080p" and 1080i". "System" will give you an ATEM-compatible 23.98pHD signal, "1080p" will output 59.94p, and "1080i" will output 59.94i. Both the latter have a 2:3 telecine-style frame/field cadence because the camera is running at 23.98. If you run the camera's output through an MDHX set to convert to 23.98p, and then compare the internal recording with the captured output of the MDHX, the 59.94p source is completely identical to the internal recording, so the MDHX is properly removing the 2:3 on the 59.94p output. If you compare the converted 1080i source, it has a noticeable blur to it. Obviously the 2:3 removal on the MDHX is not proper when feeding it a 1080i signal with 23.98p content on it (perhaps field cadence detection requires more processing that it can handle). I just thought I'd post these findings in case anyone else was interested. If you need to do a 2:3 removal on a 1080i signal, the MDHX is not a good choice. It seems to work well with a 60p signal though.

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