Can't make multiple versions of PiPs w ATEM 2ME Broadcast

I am trying to create multiple versions of picture in picture frames using the ATEM 2ME Production switcher. I thought it would be the perfect opportunity to use macros. So I tried my theory using a very simple setup. I created a macro using 1 box and a background. It started with a user pause. When I pressed the macro button nothing happened but a flashing button... which is what I wanted. When I pressed the macro button a second time and fires off the script it showed the configure I had set + the settings of the Super Source which was set in a preset. The preset was a 4 box. So the program window had a 4 box setup with the one box I had manipulated for the macro in it's proper place. Is there a way to make multiple versions of the PiP for instant call up?

Thanks,

Rick

You have to redo every macro to suit what you want. To my knowlage you can't fire a macro inside a macro..

So just build all macro's step by step.

I didn't fire a macro inside a macro. I fired a macro and it ended up being a hybrid of the macro and whatever the Super Source was last set to. If for instance I turned off all the boxes in the SScs the macro would fire with no boxes. If I checked some or all of the boxes the macro would fire with the box I placed on top of the SScs box settings. It is as if the SScs is still linked to the macro. Have you been able to make more than one version of the SScs to be able to call up back to back to back? If somebody can then it's operator error and I'll keep working at it.

Thanks

Rick

You have to touch every single value inside any PIP that is inside the picture.

The macro function records only changes NOT the current state of the switcher! So touch every single value of every Pip while recording the macro and it should work.


Cheers

Robert

I'll make sure I do. Thought I did.

Thanks.

Hi.

Two things.
First. You can use a macro inside a macro. You just run the macro during the recording of the new macro.
Second. There should be a workaround to get all the values for the supersource without the need to manually set all the boxes. Save a startup for the switcher when you have set the supersource. You can then recall the part for the supersource during a macro.

What I am trying to do is make multiple versions of a PiP. The workaround I plan on using for a 2 box is the Upstream Flyaway key. I can scale and position 2 boxes on a background. I haven't had time to try it out but it seems like a different procedure from the SScs.

The problem I seem to have is trying to use the SScs for multiple configurations. If I set it and save as, that still only gets me 1 version. I hate to think I can only bring in one multi box (more than two) per production. It has to be my fault. Maybe I didn't lock the macro at the end and it defaulted to the preset. I would just like to know if anybody has been successful in making multiple Multi-Box configs. If so I can too.

...And your right about the Macro inside the Macro. Grant does a very primitive version of it in his video under support.

Thanks

Rick

After you done the first save as, name it supersource 1 you go ahead and make a new supersource layout and make another save as and give it another name, supersource 2. You can then make two macros. First one that recalls the first saved and then a new macro that recalls the second. That should work. If you need more you just continue to save as and recall as many you need.

It's definitely possible to change from one supersource layout to another with a macro. Tried it today for a project this weekend. Didn't use the recall method today but will try that tomorrow, should be much easier than going in and out of every box in the supersource.

Try it and let me know. I will be in front of my switcher tomorrow and will try your suggestions as well as some of my own.

Thanks

Rick

Just as i thought it's possible to recall a setup using the save as and recall method.
However, depending on how much you have changed the setup, the recall will not be instant. That means that if you have the supersource live when you change the setup you will not get a clean cut. Especially if you have moved the pictures inside a box

That's a problem. I need to be able to cut back to back.

Thanks,

Rick

[Gary Adams]

Hello Rick. It is quite possible to make multiple completely different SuperSource setups and instantly cut between using Macros. While I understand it quite well, I won't say it's super easy the first time. You need to create a good macro by "touching" everything. Meaning you need to set the size and position of each box including boarders and masking on or off to include the source if you want that to change as well. Anything in the Supersource setup that you don't include in a macro will be subject to whatever state it was previously. Once you create a good one, you should be able to power cycle the ATEM and run the macro again and see exactly what you made. You would need to do this for every different setup you want to use. Not trivial but doable. I have two methods. First set up everything in the SuperSource as you intend it to look prior to the macro recording. Now start recording. Use the ATEM Software GUI menus and go through everything in the tab top to bottom. Everything. You need to touch every setup so it is recorded in the macro. If boarders are off, tick them on, then off. For every numeric position, I simply take the mouse. Highlight the number and type it manually on the keyboard exactly as it reads. Hit enter. If a box is on, tick off then on. If it is off, tick on, then off. You will get the idea, but the menu gives you just about everything you need to think about when making a macro for this.

My other method is to make one setup using the above method. Save the macros to a disk file. Only if you are into XML editing, you can open this file and make other setups by copying a good macro to a new one and modifying the values. This is not trivial and if you don't understand XML is not a good method. But there are many users where this may benefit.

I'm sure others may provide their input for shortcuts. Hope this helps a bit. When it works it is pretty useful.

Regards, Gary

Thanks Gary, I will do this. I am not familiar with the coding of XMLs but we have people on staff who are and I'v seen online videos of changing the numbers or cutting and pasting lines. It seems much faster than the click on click off technique.

The other issue I'm having is trying to move boxes and or resizing them. The only luck I've had is to nudge pause, nudge pause, nudge pause,nudge pause etc... if I don't nudge pause I get a snap into place. When I do nudge pause, the movement seems to stutter. Is there a secrete to making a smooth box animation?

Thanks for your help.

Rick

It would be nice if in addition to pause there would be function fade time..

Also if you make macro's with audio sliders in it.. It doesn't really go smoothly.. You want to have a fade down for a voice over and you get a CUT to voice over.. Or you need to add a lot of steps in between with enough pause time between them to nicely fade..

[Gary Adams]

The Supersource boxes were not designed to be moved live as you have seen. Moving does take quite a bit of internal processing especially sub pixel moves which the DVE does to make it smooth. The best way to simulate moving boxes is via the XML. I'll try to be simple. Write down the starting position x, y and size values. Then the ending position x, y and size values. Subtract the difference in values and divide by the number of frames you want the move to take place. Now you have the increment value for each move for each frame. You need to consider the + and - values here but I won't go into that. Now in the XML, make a separate position and size grouping with the previous grouping values modified by the increment value you calculated. Then add a 1 frame pause in between. I have done this and it makes a quite large macro. Again, because of the 1 frame pauses, the move will be a bit steppy but it will work. Just not as smooth as the DVE because of the processing. I will also say there are some 3rd party applications that may help a bit in this area and a search of the forum might help.

Regards, Gary

Daniel's correct we don't have an audio dissolve function built in so a similar process to the above would need to be written. That said, write this once and via XML could be modified and inserted in other macros without having to make it all over again. Hope this helps.

Well Animated Super sources are already proven to work well by Baz Leffeler..
It would be great if BMD would be able to do so..

The key is that he calculates the number of frames for the fade.. And accordingly calculates how much movement the box should do per frame.
Quite a good implementation.. And seems the Atem takes it very well..

Check from 2:28 if the YT video doesn't jump to that directly..

Can you create keyframes? I don't think I can. I don't see that in the ATEM software. I thought that might be how the "pause" worked but I didn't have any luck. Are you able to do what he did?

Thanks,

Rick

too bad there's not a keyframe/timeline function for DVE/SS like the big boys have...Baz has proven the hardware is capable so it seems like a re-write of the controls could make this SO much more usable. I find the current macro system VERY tedious.

Ditto. So much I would like to do.

IMHO the first thing that the macro system needs is a "save current switcher state" function. With that you wouldn't have to touch every single value of any mixer feature if yo want to save it into a macro. There could even be a selection screen like the one in the save dialog where you can specify which part of the switcher state you want to save into the current macro. F.e. only the super source.


Cheers

Robert

IMHO the first thing that the macro system needs is a "save current switcher state" function. With that you wouldn't have to touch every single value of any mixer feature if yo want to save it into a macro. There could even be a selection screen like the one in the save dialog where you can specify which part of the switcher state you want to save into the current macro. F.e. only the super source.


Cheers

Robert

Well you can do that already, sort of. You can use the "save as" command and then in the macro recall the saved state. Works perfectly.