ATEM update issues

Questions about ATEM Switchers, Camera Converter and everything live!
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Rob Linger

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ATEM update issues

PostMon Sep 24, 2018 4:13 pm

I have a question about the ATEM software updates. It seems like when a new update comes out, our ATEM software will not work properly until we update our system. This "feature" prevented me from recording a wedding for a friend. I checked on the night before the wedding for any updates, and nothing was showing, then the day of the wedding, sure enough when I tried to open the "Capture" tab in the software, I wasn't able to do anything. I checked on the website, and again sure enough there was an update that was released sometime between the rehearsal the night before and the wedding! I wasn't able to get the update and the desktop video software, along with the latest ATEM firmware all installed in time for recording the wedding!

Is there something I need to disable to prevent this from happening again. It's happened a few times for us, mainly happens while trying to record a church service, which we are able to catch in time to get everything updated and still record the sermon.

Can we get updates, with a notice that we need to update within the next 2 weeks, or something along that line, if there isn't something that can be disabled within the software?

Thanks!
Rob
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Denny Smith

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Re: ATEM update issues

PostMon Sep 24, 2018 6:09 pm

I think you will find ATEM software is not automatically updated, you need to apply any updates manually, as far as I know. Sound like yiu are running in a Windows system, and Microsoft is running Windows system updates automatically, which it does.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Xtreemtec

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Re: ATEM update issues

PostTue Sep 25, 2018 11:13 am

Why did you bother to update anything just before a job.

Get a running setup with the same laptop, atem mixer etc.. Make it work and don't update until you really need to because of a new feature or a bug..

But there is no auto update or so in place.. So that it did not work the day of the wedding is more hardware or computer issue related then BMD that put a new update on their website.. ;)
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Rob Linger

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Re: ATEM update issues

PostTue Sep 25, 2018 5:30 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:Why did you bother to update anything just before a job.


What happens is, it seems like whenever a new update comes out, our ATEM control software will not allow us to open the "capture" tab. This has happened at least 3 times since we purchased the ATEM. This forces us to update, or not use the ATEM! This also happens within days of the update being released. I know this sounds fishy, but something isn't right with it. The software will basically lock us out from using it until we perform an update.

The recording PC is a Windows 10 based computer.
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Thomas Seewald

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Re: ATEM update issues

PostWed Sep 26, 2018 7:53 am

I’m running ATEM control on several PCs. None of them have never updated ATEM control automatically. So I think, that Windows updates causes your problems. They only can happen, when the PC is connected to the internet. No Internet - no update.So I would suggest to keep your control PC away from Interrnet, set it to static IP so a router (better the built-in DHCP-Server) is not needed and connect the PC dircet or by a small switch to your ATEM. If you want to stream, keep the streaming infrastructure (e.g. dedicated streaming PC) in an other network.
thos-berlin - Thomas S e e w a l d
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Xtreemtec

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Re: ATEM update issues

PostWed Sep 26, 2018 9:58 am

I'm with Thomas, Atem software does not cause update issues.. Rather Windows updates that get things corrupted in your machine.. Or some fucky driver issue..

To add to that.. I never trust recording on the PC only.. Always!!! have a backup hardware recorder!! ;)

If for some reason your HDD crashes, or power failure of some kind you lost your recording.. Or even windows updates that is forcing a shutdown.. (Have seen this on a presenter laptop in the middle of his presentation.) He got a message of windows going to restart becuase of some update.. The moment he could walk to the laptop, it was already shutting down.. :lol: :lol:

Were only a few 100 people in the venue.. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Rob Linger

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Re: ATEM update issues

PostWed Sep 26, 2018 11:50 am

Thanks for your thoughts on this!

The ATEM software doesn't actually update on it's own, but it won't let me open the capture tab until I can update it. It doesn't make any sense to me at all, even with Windows updates, that has nothing to do with the "required" ATEM update. And every time this happens, when I go to the Blackmagic update site, it ALWAYS shows that an update was released sometime after our last service, which would be the last time the ATEM was used.

I've searched this over and over again, and it appears that we are the only ones dealing with this. I was hoping that someone here would have some thoughts on this.

Unfortunately we aren't blessed with a large budget, and are limited with the amount of PC's, so removing the machine from the internet isn't an option.

The bigger problem though is why I can no longer load the resulting mp4 file into my video editing software (Sony Movie Studio 14), when I was able to before the last ATEM update. I have uninstalled and reinstalled the ATEM and the Desktop Video software, without a change. I may need to go back a few revisions and reinstall that. I can't see that the file specs changed anywhere.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: ATEM update issues

PostWed Sep 26, 2018 12:10 pm

The Atem software wont be the problem.. But there are reported problems over time with a few versions of Desktop video..
Might be that you upgraded to a version of Desktop video that is not working ok for your cpature card in combination with your computer.

Go back a few versions of desktop video.. Get it stable and dont update your software again..

It can be a real cat and mouse game when it comes to drivers and Windows 10 updates.. Because windows tend to do security updates that affect a lot of hardware.. We install every 2 months or so our lighting control software in our OBV.. because every security update of the server in our OBV for some reason that driver gets blocked again and we have to go into safe install mode again to re-install the software.. :roll: Buit this is a pure evil windows issue..
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Thomas Seewald

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Re: ATEM update issues

PostWed Sep 26, 2018 4:11 pm

Sorry, I didn‘t found the model name of the used ATEM. The only one, which can connected to a PC to capture (by USB) is the old Television Studio. For all other models are dedicated devices necessary e.g a PC with a Decklink card. When I‘m right, all updates for ATEM TVS after version 7.2 or 7.3 dont change anything - no update needed. So which model you are using ?

Is it really needed, that the control PC is connected to internet after checking the function until end of event ? If no, disconnect the PC from internet and maybe use static IPs to prevent the usage of a router. You can connect the PC direct to ATEMs.

Do you try to capture and stream from the same input at the same time ? Maybe the streaming software locks the acces from Media Express / ATEM comtrol.

Maybe think about the following ideas.

1.) For only controlling an ATEM, there is no horsepower necessary. A refurbishesd laptop or PC for 200,- €/$ would do a good job.

2.) For recording, I primary use a Hyperdeck harddisk recorder. I don‘t trust PCs for critical applications.

3.) For secure, I run a DV tape recorder. no HD, but in case of an issue better than nothing....

4.) I don‘t know, what cameras are used. When normal DLSr or video cameras, I would do an ISO recording on their SD-cards. In case of an issue with the normal recording, you could edit in postproduction. It costs additional time, but saves the production...

I know, every of this ideas cost money, but I think for preventing issues, some kind of additional stuff is necessary. The cheapest way may be the ISO recording inside the cameras.
thos-berlin - Thomas S e e w a l d
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Rob Linger

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Re: ATEM update issues

PostWed Sep 26, 2018 5:38 pm

Thomas Seewald wrote:Sorry, I didn‘t found the model name of the used ATEM...


Thanks for the info Thomas!

You are correct, we are using the original ATEM TV Studio. We bought it maybe 2 years ago.

98% of our recordings are of our Sunday morning church service, and really aren't that crucial. If we miss a Sunday morning, it really isn't that big of an issue. However it's that 2% that is crucial, and if we miss recording those events, then there is trouble.

Looks like I need to budget in for a separate recorder. We are a simple, local church, not a production studio, but we want to make sure that when we want something recorded, it is going to work.

Like I said before, I do need internet access on that PC, so removing it from the network isn't an option.

Looks like I'll have to live with the software dying every time BDS releases an ATEM update, even if it has no relevance to our original TV Studio, and make sure that it gets installed before anything important is missed.
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Gary Adams

Blackmagic Design

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Re: ATEM update issues

PostWed Sep 26, 2018 5:52 pm

Hello Rob. Just to be clear in case I don't understand the issue. Our software releases will never cause any of our devices to change unless you download and install that software release. Nothing about our software releases is automatic. It is up to the user to download and install the software. The operating system may or may not be causing issues when the OS downloads and installs without your permission. Or are you seeing something different?

Regards, Gary
Gary Adams
Blackmagic Design
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Rob Linger

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Re: ATEM update issues

PostWed Sep 26, 2018 6:12 pm

Gary Adams wrote:Hello Rob. Just to be clear in case I don't understand the issue. Our software releases will never cause any of our devices to change unless you download and install that software release. Nothing about our software releases is automatic. It is up to the user to download and install the software. The operating system may or may not be causing issues when the OS downloads and installs without your permission. Or are you seeing something different?

Regards, Gary


Gary, thanks for responding!!!

Here is what we have been seeing from the very first update of the ATEM software after we purchased our ATEM TV Studio. I will start up the ATEM Control software, and try to start the capture (older software, before the newer tab for capture), and I wouldn't be able to go in and create a file name or even a save to directory. The software would open, and look normal, but it wouldn't "function" (I couldn't click on the setup or record buttons), until we installed the latest update, which always happened to be released at some point since our last Sunday service recording (within the previous 7 days). Just about all, if not all updates also required a firmware update, and then we were told to install Desktop video. This has happened maybe 5 or 6 times since we put the ATEM into service, with every instance coming within a week of the most recent ATEM software update, per the dates listed on the ATEM update webpage.

The computer that I have the ATEM installed on is an i7 based Dell desktop, running Windows 10. I am using 2 canon vixia video cameras, one is a hf g20 and the other is a hf g30. I also am grabbing a powerpoint feed from a laptop plugged into the ATEM, via HDMI. I have been using this setup for the last year, and before that we had a cheaper Canon camcorder along with the hf g20 camera.

I know that none of this makes sense, but it is what we've been dealing with now for close to 3 years. I'll need to look at the actual purchase date to verify the time frame.

Rob
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rogersuski

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Re: ATEM update issues

PostWed Sep 26, 2018 8:21 pm

Are you saying that the ATEM software would not control the switcher until a reinstall of the ATEM software, or just the capture function was disabled? And you have the First Version of the ATEM (skinny with the heat sink fins on the back) that allowed for recording via the USB 2.0 port?

Are there any other computers that connect to the switcher in the "off times" that may be running a different version of the software/firmware?

Is the computer under any sort of management?

It sounds like some drivers are being disabled each week prompting you do reinstall. Of course, you're downloading the newest one, which would require a firmware update.
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Rob Linger

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Re: ATEM update issues

PostThu Sep 27, 2018 12:01 pm

rogersuski wrote:Are you saying that the ATEM software would not control the switcher until a reinstall of the ATEM software, or just the capture function was disabled? And you have the First Version of the ATEM (skinny with the heat sink fins on the back) that allowed for recording via the USB 2.0 port?

Are there any other computers that connect to the switcher in the "off times" that may be running a different version of the software/firmware?

Is the computer under any sort of management?

It sounds like some drivers are being disabled each week prompting you do reinstall. Of course, you're downloading the newest one, which would require a firmware update.


Hi Roger.

To answer your questions...

Yes, we are still using the original ATEM, with the heat fins on the back.

No other PC's connected to the ATEM, however we did assign the ATEM a network IP address, maybe I should pull the ATEM off the network?

As for the management question, see above about being connected to the network.

We don't need to install the software each week, but when it does lock down the capture portion of the software, it's always within a week of the latest ATEM software update. The ATEM is mainly used on Sunday mornings, so as an example, if I recorded last Sunday without an issue, and I got in this Sunday, and I'm unable to set the capture settings, I know to go to the BDS website and search for an update, and sure enough there is always a new update that came out sometime within the last week.

Rob
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Thomas Seewald

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Re: ATEM update issues

PostThu Sep 27, 2018 4:16 pm

BM don‘t update automatically, but Windows does.

So I think, that the Windows updates resets configuration values, which are used and needed from BM, to defaults. The after the issue manually forced BM update do nothing more than reset the values to the needed ones.

So I would suggest to switch off automated Windowes updates for a try....
thos-berlin - Thomas S e e w a l d

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