ATEM Constellation Talkback

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rallymatt

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ATEM Constellation Talkback

PostMon May 13, 2019 8:33 pm

Ordered an 8K constellation. Want to use it's now 2 channels of talkback with my existing Talkback Converter 4k's.

Talkback converter 4k has AES mic/headphone in an out. I've never tried to use them for anything. There's no digital (aes) talkback in/out on the back panel of the Constellation that I see, and the manual for it doesn't specify other than plug in an XLR headset to the front of the unit and use the RJ45 on the rear for talkback.

I'm assuming the RJ45 on the back is analog for 4 wire interfaces. Is it possible get out of that RJ45, and interface with my Fiber converters for one of the channels? (Say engineering).

Even better. RJ45 from Constellation to an actual 4 Wire hardwired intercom for the crew in the trailer. Then also to the 4k Talkback converters for the camera team. Maybe this works? Maybe you need to use a SDI audio de-embedder and take channel 15/16 out of one of the outputs and make that into AES and stuff that into the 4K converter?
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Xtreemtec

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Re: ATEM Constellation Talkback

PostMon May 13, 2019 8:49 pm

The RJ45 carries 2x 4W in & out.

The housing is the Ground so use a FTP cable with metal shielded connector.

The pinout is unknown, as it is not described in the manual. :lol: But i do know there are 2x 4W in that connector, production and engineering. But i hope that carry levels or in a future update you are able to set the levels of the in / out of these.

You should be able to couple an existing 4W intercom to the Atem with the Right adapter cable. We will use it with our Clearcom Pico Matrix intercom which is 4W on RJ45. Just need to split out the cable from 1 to 2 RJ45 connectors. :)
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: ATEM Constellation Talkback

PostTue May 14, 2019 4:04 am

Strangely, the Design section of the ATEM Constellation 8K product page says the talkback connector uses an RJ12 connector: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... ion/design
The front panel has an industry standard 5 pin broadcast headset connector plus buttons to enable talkback communication. Then for large broadcast jobs, the rear panel includes an RJ12 expansion connector so you can connect to industry standard talkback systems such as ClearCom or RTS.
RJ12 is only 6-pins, and judging from the picture, the talkback connector pretty clearly looks like an 8-pin connector. RJ12 was used for 4-wire audio on some RTS matrix intercoms, but with 4 pins for audio and 2 for data. 6 pins wouldn't be enough for 2 channels of 4-wire audio.

So I'm guessing that it is actually an RJ45 connector. There have been some uses of RJ45 connectors for 4-wire audio on some Clear-Com and HME intercom system components, usually with the middle two pins (4 & 5) for audio in and pins 3 & 6 for audio out. But there's no real standard for this that I am aware of, so it would probably be best to contact Blackmagic directly to clarify the wiring configuration.
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MambaFiber.com

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Re: ATEM Constellation Talkback

PostTue May 14, 2019 5:04 am

what?? BMD putting out wrong information?! I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!! [sarcasm off]

the TalkBack connector on the Constellation is indeed a RJ45. 2x talk, 2x listen. i have yet to see the official pinout, but it wouldn't be hard at all to suss it out. it's going to be a BMD specific pinout, as I know of no version of RTS or CC that has a 2ch RJ45 connection.

the REMOTE connector on the other hand is indeed a RJ12. it carries the RS-422 port that used to be on a standard DB-9. Switch to RJ12 was made due to limited space on the rear panel.
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rallymatt

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Re: ATEM Constellation Talkback

PostTue May 14, 2019 2:17 pm

Great. Thanks for the info guys. That seems to help with connecting it to a traditional 4 wire intercom. But how about passing that intercom audio into a Talkback Converter 4k and down the fiber to my cameras.

Anyone think that the Constellation embeds the audio on both the RJ45 4 wire interface, and on the SDI channels? So when program is looped through the talkback converter, it automatically sends the audio out over fiber to cam ops? That would be ideal situation. How would you control who you're talking to? From the front face buttons of the converter?
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MambaFiber.com

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Re: ATEM Constellation Talkback

PostTue May 14, 2019 4:35 pm

the talkback converter will replace the ATEM/Constellation talkback with it's own...IMO there should be a way to bypass this so you can use it with a switcher that has it's own talkback. typical BMD shortsightedness :evil:

best solution I have for you is to ditch the talkback converter, and use a Mini Converter Optical Fiber to convert the camera fibers into BNC, which would connect directly to Constellation/talkback. the cameras only embed one comms channel, called engineering on the Constellation. AFAIK there is no provision to get the other talkback channel called production out to their cameras.

and yes, the talkback on the constellation feeds both embedded SDI and the RJ45 simultaneously. on the Constellation, you talk to all cameras all the time-there isn't an individual talk button per camera like the TB converter.
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rallymatt

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Re: ATEM Constellation Talkback

PostTue May 14, 2019 7:50 pm

best solution I have for you is to ditch the talkback converter, and use a Mini Converter Optical Fiber to convert the camera fibers into BNC, which would connect directly to Constellation/talkback. the cameras only embed one comms channel, called engineering on the Constellation. AFAIK there is no provision to get the other talkback channel called production out to their cameras.


Yea, but then you'd need to SDI distribute the program feed back into each one of those converters for camera program and talkback.

So instead of having one box, you'd have 9. Plus 9 power adapters with USB and all that mumbo jumbo.
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: ATEM Constellation Talkback

PostWed May 15, 2019 3:30 am

MambaFiber.com wrote:AFAIK there is no provision to get the other talkback channel called production out to their cameras.
The Camera Fiber Converters support 2 channels of talkback audio and have an Engineering/Production switch to control which channel is being monitored. So I assume these units use audio channels 13 & 14 on the SDI program return feed for this (like the ATEM Constellation).

I believe the talkback output is available as a digital output on one of the MADI output channels from the ATEM Constellation, so you could probably use a MADI to AES converter to extract this audio and feed it into the Talkback Converter 4K. MADI to AES converters tend to be pretty expensive though, so probably an audio disembedder like the Teranex Mini SDI to Audio or Mini Converter SDI to Audio would be an easier option though.
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Gary Adams

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Re: ATEM Constellation Talkback

PostWed May 15, 2019 1:31 pm

Apologies for this not being in the manual. Looking at the front of the RJ-45 Talkback Connector (Tab up), Pins 1-8. This will be in the next manual.

1 Eng TX+
2 Eng TX-
3 Prod TX+
4 Prod RX+
5 Prod RX-
6 Prod TX-
7 Eng RX+
8 Eng RX-

Several things to consider. The constellation does support both Production and Engineering channels that are additionally supported with the Studio/Cameara Fiber converter. None of the other ATEMS or the Talkback Converter 4K (or earlier) support the Engineering channel which is on SDI 13/14. Also, the Talkback Converter 4K cannot be used in conjunction with the Constellation Talkback. Either use one or the other as they do not pass everything back and forth. This is the same for other "Talkback Aware" ATEMS like the 2/4ME, TVS HD/HD Pro and 4K Pro. If you are using a separate Talkback Converter then you can shut off the use of SDI 13-16 on the Constellation in the Setup. I hope this helps.

Regards, Gary
Gary Adams
Blackmagic Design
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rallymatt

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Re: ATEM Constellation Talkback

PostFri May 17, 2019 2:31 am

Gary Adams wrote:Apologies for this not being in the manual. Looking at the front of the RJ-45 Talkback Connector (Tab up), Pins 1-8. This will be in the next manual.

1 Eng TX+
2 Eng TX-
3 Prod TX+
4 Prod RX+
5 Prod RX-
6 Prod TX-
7 Eng RX+
8 Eng RX-

Several things to consider. The constellation does support both Production and Engineering channels that are additionally supported with the Studio/Cameara Fiber converter. None of the other ATEMS or the Talkback Converter 4K (or earlier) support the Engineering channel which is on SDI 13/14. Also, the Talkback Converter 4K cannot be used in conjunction with the Constellation Talkback. Either use one or the other as they do not pass everything back and forth. This is the same for other "Talkback Aware" ATEMS like the 2/4ME, TVS HD/HD Pro and 4K Pro. If you are using a separate Talkback Converter then you can shut off the use of SDI 13-16 on the Constellation in the Setup. I hope this helps.

Regards, Gary



Thanks Gary. So just to be clear. Plugging into the constellation with a new XLR headset, won’t pass any intercom through PGM to the Talkback Converter 4k and out to the camera ops.

Only way to talk to cam ops that are connected to Talkback Converter 4k would be to plug headset direct into converter (as I’m doing now) and not utilize the new channel and RJ45 intercom connection options on the new constellation.

If so. That’s kind of a bummer.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: ATEM Constellation Talkback

PostTue May 21, 2019 8:54 am

rallymatt wrote:Thanks Gary. So just to be clear. Plugging into the constellation with a new XLR headset, won’t pass any intercom through PGM to the Talkback Converter 4k and out to the camera ops.

This is a well known issue reported already to BMD and the Developer of this converter 2 years ago! ;)
The problem is that the Talkback converter is build and released before any Atem had Talkback build in.

Since then all new Atems have Talkback function build in. But still the FW of the 4K Talkback converter is not updated to have a Pass-trough function from Atem.
Which prevents the 4K talkback converter effectifly be used in any multicam system that has a modern Atem which you want to connect with 4W to a intercom matrix. :cry:
Also The talkbackconverter 4K on 12G will work perfect with an Atem. But due too missing Payload indentifiers on 6G and 12G it does not play very well with other 4K hardware :roll: This is also known and proffed to BMD. But unfortunatly no FW update be seen since..
Which is a pity because that 4K Talkback converter would be an Excellent 8 channel 12G fiber converter for most 4K Atem setups..
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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Gary Adams

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Re: ATEM Constellation Talkback

PostTue May 21, 2019 8:00 pm

Essentially, the Talkback Converter 4K and Constellation (as well as other Talkback aware ATEMs) do the same thing (mostly) and do not work together. So you can use one or the other for talkback but not both.

Regards, Gary
Gary Adams
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Xtreemtec

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Re: ATEM Constellation Talkback

PostTue May 21, 2019 9:13 pm

True Gary. But What if you want to use the Talkback converter as a 8 channel fiber converter to bring your Ursa's or Studio camera 4K's into the Atem.

If you want to do this now with use of the 4W Talkback of the Atem 4ME / 8K you have to build a shelve and put 8 fiber converters mini on the shelf.. Add an SDI splitter for PGM splitting.

This could also be done with the 4K talkback converter for a good price in a 1RU rack space with 1 simple firmware modification. ;) BMD could make that product so much future proof and sell a lot more of them ..
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Simon Bachofen

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Re: ATEM Constellation Talkback

PostThu Jun 13, 2019 3:01 pm

@Xtreemtec

You are absolutely right. I would like to use it but I can't.
Also the Talkback Converter doesn't work with 1080p50 together with the new Studio Fiber Converters, you can't control the cameras anymore, but in 1080i50 it works. A bug since the beginning and no firmware update so far…
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GerbrandOudenaarden

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Re: ATEM Constellation Talkback

PostMon Dec 02, 2019 8:30 pm

For those who want to make their own interface cable and are confused by the naming of the signals:

1 Eng TX+ (audio from cameras to intercom matrix)
2 Eng TX- (to intercom matrix)
3 Prod TX+(to intercom matrix)
4 Prod RX+ (from intercom matrix to cameras)
5 Prod RX- (from intercom matrix)
6 Prod TX- (to intercom matrix)
7 Eng RX+ (from intercom matrix)
8 Eng RX- (from intercom matrix)

If you only need one intercom channel you only need to connect pins 3-6.

Do you want to connect an RTS intercom system, then you cannot use a normal UTP cable to connect the intercom matrix analog (4-wire) port to the ATEM Constellation. Instead, cut one RJ45 connector of, get rid of the orange and brown wires, and connect the remaining wires like this:

pin 3: solid blue
pin 4: white-green
pin 5: green
pin 6: white-blue

This side connects to the ATEM Constellation.

To connect both the engineering and production channels to an RTS intercom system, take a second UTP cable and connect the blue and green pair to pins 1, 2, 7 and 8 in addition to the connections above as in the photo. Again, this side connects to the ATEM Constellation. The two other RJ45 connectors go into the analog (fourwire/AIO) sockets on the matrix.

IMG_0062.jpg
Interface cable for RTS AIO to ATEM Constellation (both production and engineering)
IMG_0062.jpg (923.41 KiB) Viewed 129 times


I've tested this today (see photo) and both intercom channels now work flawlessly. I am using an RTS ODIN intercom system, ATEM Constellation and BMD URSA Broadcast cameras.

Regards,
Gerbrand Oudenaarden
Engage! TV / Studio Westhaven

Gary Adams wrote:Apologies for this not being in the manual. Looking at the front of the RJ-45 Talkback Connector (Tab up), Pins 1-8. This will be in the next manual.

1 Eng TX+
2 Eng TX-
3 Prod TX+
4 Prod RX+
5 Prod RX-
6 Prod TX-
7 Eng RX+
8 Eng RX-

Several things to consider. The constellation does support both Production and Engineering channels that are additionally supported with the Studio/Cameara Fiber converter. None of the other ATEMS or the Talkback Converter 4K (or earlier) support the Engineering channel which is on SDI 13/14. Also, the Talkback Converter 4K cannot be used in conjunction with the Constellation Talkback. Either use one or the other as they do not pass everything back and forth. This is the same for other "Talkback Aware" ATEMS like the 2/4ME, TVS HD/HD Pro and 4K Pro. If you are using a separate Talkback Converter then you can shut off the use of SDI 13-16 on the Constellation in the Setup. I hope this helps.

Regards, Gary

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