Controlable Lenses for the Blackmagic Studio 4K

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John Connard

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Controlable Lenses for the Blackmagic Studio 4K

PostFri Jun 14, 2019 6:57 am

Hello,

After a couple of days of looking through various forums, I still can't find a direct answer to my question therefore I thought I would just ask you directly.

I need a lens that can be controlled (zoom, focus and iris) from behind the Studio Camera 4K using the LANC, with something like Manfrotto RC Pan Bar EX Remote Control for LANC Cameras. The focal length needs to be 100 - 400mm.

I have found a couple of maybes, but I can't find a definitive "Yes, this will work!". The two lenses are the:
- PANASONIC LEICA DG 100-400 MM F/4-6,3 ASPH POWER OIS
- PANASONIC H-RS 100mm - 400mm f/4.0-6.3

Please, let me know if these will work, or maybe another lens that will work and is better.

Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.
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RichardJolly

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Re: Controlable Lenses for the Blackmagic Studio 4K

PostFri Jun 14, 2019 2:40 pm

I don't think the Panasonic 100-400 zoom can be controlled remotely, unless you add an external servo device to turn the zoom ring. I use the 100-300 with the Studio Camera HD and 4K and focus and iris can be controlled from the camera, or from the ATEM software if the return SDI or optical fibre path is connected. From the focus controls on the camera only auto focus can be initiated; iris can be stepped up and down, though ATEM software control will override this.

I use two shorter and lesser Panasonic zooms whose zoom can be controlled remotely from the ATEM software, 14-42 and 45-175, though the control is crude and can be unreliable.

I imagine that it would be possible to adapt mechanical focus or servo zoom controls from older TV lenses, but you would need bars mounted under the camera to mount the devices.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Controlable Lenses for the Blackmagic Studio 4K

PostFri Jun 14, 2019 5:54 pm

While,the Panna-Leica 100-400 is a nice lens, it and its Panasonic counterpart, do not have a Servo Zoom.
The longest focal length res Ge MFT zoom available is the Panna 45-175 Richard mentions.

All of these are still camera zooms, and do not really work very well for TV studio work, except as variable focal,length lens, which you set to the desired field of view/focal length, and leave it there. None of these can be used for a live zoom, as they do not hold focus during a zoom, and need to be refocused each time you change the zoom focal length. So having a behind the camera zoom change is of no real value, except for convince.

You could spend $300-500 to get a remote Servo follow focus setup, with the control brought to the camera operator. The same thing could be done with a traditional follow focus and use a long wip on the FF.

If you want a true TV type zoom, you can change the zoom and maintain focus, you are going to need to spend some $ on a ENG type Cine Zoom, like the Canon EZ zooms, or something similar. Another option is to adapt HD ENG B4 Mount 2/3rd Zoom lenses, which will give you Servo Zoom and Servo focus (on some models), but you will need to get a good B4 to MFT optically corrected adapter (MTF Services or AbelCine) which can cost $1500-2K.

Then you will need a third party adapter box to power the lens, and give you the remote ATEM control, or add on a B4 zoom remote for zoom and focus (uses its own controllers, no Lanc control). By the time you add up the cost, you could just buy a BMD Ursa Boradcast Camera, that is designed to do what you want, has a optically corrected B4 Mount, and yiu can get it paired with a nice ENG zoom designed for the Ursa Boradcast by Fujnion, around $10K for camera and lens.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Ryan Boni

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Re: Controlable Lenses for the Blackmagic Studio 4K

PostSat Jun 15, 2019 12:44 pm

Also, keep in mind that the 35mm focal length equivalent for the Panasonic 45-175 lens that Richard mentioned is 90-350mm (since it is an MFT lens and the Studio Cam is basically a 13mm x 7mm sensor), which gets you mostly into your 100-400mm (equivalent) range .

When you mentioned that you needed a 100-400 lens, not sure if you were thinking that in terms of the focal length of a traditional 35mm lens or an MFT lens.
Public Access Director, Peters Twp Comm TV
Freelance TV Broadcast Camera Op (sometimes Dir, TD, EIC, Video)

ATEM M/E 1, 2 & TVS, Studio & Broadcast Cam, Smartscope/view, Cam Conv, Studio Conv, Talkback Conv, Hyperdecks, Videohub 40x40 & MC
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Denny Smith

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Re: Controlable Lenses for the Blackmagic Studio 4K

PostSat Jun 15, 2019 4:15 pm

Their is no difference in focal lengths on a MFT lens or 135mm lens. What is different between the MFT and 135mm lens is the size of the lens for a given focal,length due to the difference in projected image sizes. The 135mm lens has a larger projected image circle to cover the 24x36mm image area. The BMD Studio Camera while it uses a MFT mount, is actually a S16/1-inch size sensor, so the difference in field of view is around 2.9 times, with a 45mm giving about a 135mm angle of view.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Ryan Boni

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Re: Controlable Lenses for the Blackmagic Studio 4K

PostSat Jun 15, 2019 8:31 pm

Hey Denny,

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that the actual focal lengths were different, I was saying that the "equivalent" focal lengths were different, and thus, the resulting image would be different (as you mentioned), and to keep that in mind. I wasn't sure if the OP was saying that a 100-400mm was needed, based on the actual focal length requirements, or judging that based on the angle of view he was looking to achieve. I assume a lot of people are thinking about angle of view because they are figuring that I am whatever distance from the stage and I want to get a certain framing of a shot and they are looking to express that through a focal length.

Just wanted to make sure that if he was looking for the angle of view that a 100-400mm lens would give on a 35mm sensor that he understood that a 45-175mm MFT on the BMD studio camera sensor is going to give him closer to the field of view he might be looking to achieve than he might think based on its actual focal length.

It's funny to me being a TV guy and dealing with parfocal lenses all my life, and not coming from a film or still background with lots of prime lenses, that when I'm looking at focal lengths on lenses my only concern has typically been "is the wide wide enough and is the tight tight enough?" because I'm always more concerned about being able to include all of the subject or get a tight enough close-up, than what the actual focal length means in terms of, well, actual focal length!

We use those Panasonic 45-175mm lenses on 3 of our 4 Studio Cams, but I actually ended up putting 0.7x wide adapters on them, since much of our programming is in the talk show variety and the 45mm end of the lens was not wide enough, but the other LANC compatible lenses could never get tight enough shots (especially when guests are demoing things).
Public Access Director, Peters Twp Comm TV
Freelance TV Broadcast Camera Op (sometimes Dir, TD, EIC, Video)

ATEM M/E 1, 2 & TVS, Studio & Broadcast Cam, Smartscope/view, Cam Conv, Studio Conv, Talkback Conv, Hyperdecks, Videohub 40x40 & MC
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RichardJolly

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Re: Controlable Lenses for the Blackmagic Studio 4K

PostSun Jun 16, 2019 1:06 pm

Ryan Boni wrote:We use those Panasonic 45-175mm lenses on 3 of our 4 Studio Cams, but I actually ended up putting 0.7x wide adapters on them


Ryan, can you specify make and model of the wide adaptors you use? We do almost exclusively conferences with "pit" Micro Studio cameras on simple remote heads (Bescor variously badged), but they often have to be located against the stage or even on the stage, so sometimes the 14-42 is not quite long enough and the 45-175 is a bit too long, so an overlapping range would be useful.

Have you experienced an issue where the 45-175 cannot be focussed at the wide end? On occasion I have found that the zoom needed to be widened in steps and refocussed at each step, or else it would not become sharp fully wide.

Sometimes with any of the Panasonic MFT lenses, if the focus became stuck and could not be adjusted remotely or on the lens, a simple press of the lens release button (without removing the lens) would cure the problem, for instance with the Panasonic 100-300.

Incidentally, re the Bescor remote pan/tilt head, for those like us doing budget work I recently discovered an infrared version badged as Maxwell https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00ADKR7FS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Though it is not clear from the pictures, the crude and fragile infrared sensor arm can be rotated through about 270 degrees, so the equally cruded and simple handheld remote control can work from different angles, though the range is limited to 15m to be on the safe side. I added an equally low-cost and tiny Lindy infrared wireless link https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01C3ODR14/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 which I have only tested so far up to 20m, but is small enough to be stuck onto the side of the remote head and reach the sensor (which overhangs the side), meaning that only the optical fibre cable is required to reach the camera and not the Cat5 I use with other Bescor for the 7-pin DIN cable control. I will be trying this in a bigger conference room soon and hope the wireless link will work over the typical 30-50m of a big conference centre. One drawback is that the wireless link will not always move the head continuously, so don't expect to follow a wandering speaker with this setup!
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Denny Smith

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Re: Controlable Lenses for the Blackmagic Studio 4K

PostSun Jun 16, 2019 5:04 pm

No worries, it is all good Ryan. I was just clarifying the issues involved.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Ryan Boni

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Re: Controlable Lenses for the Blackmagic Studio 4K

PostSun Sep 15, 2019 2:48 pm

Sorry Richard, somehow I missed your question.

The 0.7x wide angle adapters that we have on our Panasonic 45-175 lenses are made by 16x9 Inc. and are the 169-HDWC7X-46.

We've had good results from them, but we are also usually them mostly in our studio where we're using a lot of light.

You had also asked about trouble getting focus at the wide end of the lens, I'd have to agree, although again for us some of it is helped by the studio lights - but getting it focused is still pretty touchy.
Public Access Director, Peters Twp Comm TV
Freelance TV Broadcast Camera Op (sometimes Dir, TD, EIC, Video)

ATEM M/E 1, 2 & TVS, Studio & Broadcast Cam, Smartscope/view, Cam Conv, Studio Conv, Talkback Conv, Hyperdecks, Videohub 40x40 & MC

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