Setup for Multicam in a recording studio

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Tbaker

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Setup for Multicam in a recording studio

PostWed Jul 31, 2019 6:07 pm

Hi there I have a four room recording studio and want to offer Multicam video of live off the floor performance with the audio recorded and edited in pro tools and video in Resolve . I’m guessing I’d edit the audio multitrack to a 2 track in pro tools and bring it into resolve. I want to sync all this up with timecode . I’m thinking to mix up 2 P4k and some go pros as well.

I’d like to be able to monitor in the control room. At least the main cameras. So I can have my assistant set up the shot with direction from me and make sure nothing changes during the clip


Any thoughts on best practices much appreciated . I have access and can run required cabling to each room for monitoring . Sdi or hdmi ?
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Tbaker

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Re: Setup for Multicam in a recording studio

PostThu Aug 01, 2019 3:05 pm

If I’m in the wrong forum please let me know.. I realize this isn’t necessarily “live” in the broadcast sense but it’s primarily a static studio type environment so thought this forum would be appropriate. If not let me know. Definite newb

Thanks!
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: Setup for Multicam in a recording studio

PostSat Aug 03, 2019 12:17 am

Are you looking to do a live cut between the different camera angles? Or do you just want to record each camera angle individually and then you will edit them together later in Resolve?

In terms of SDI vs. HDMI, SDI is nearly always the preferred option for longer cable runs.

Which means that you will likely need some HDMI to SDI converters if you want to use GoPros or the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K (rather than cameras with built-in SDI output). Keep in mind the recent GoPros (6 and 7) and Pocket Cinema Camera 4K only output HD (up to 1080p) over their HDMI outputs.
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Tbaker

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Re: Setup for Multicam in a recording studio

PostSat Aug 03, 2019 6:33 am

Dave Del Vecchio wrote:Are you looking to do a live cut between the different camera angles? Or do you just want to record each camera angle individually and then you will edit them together later in Resolve?

In terms of SDI vs. HDMI, SDI is nearly always the preferred option for longer cable runs.

Which means that you will likely need some HDMI to SDI converters if you want to use GoPros or the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K (rather than cameras with built-in SDI output). Keep in mind the recent GoPros (6 and 7) and Pocket Cinema Camera 4K only output HD (up to 1080p) over their HDMI outputs.


Hi Dave thanks for the reply!! No live cuts. I’m thinking I’d be recording only and edit later in resolve ... my cable runs would be under 50 ft so I was thinking hdmi might be easier and less converters. My thought was to run two hdmi to each room and back to a couple 4x1 switches outputting to a pair of small monitors Like BM duo view . With one converter after each switch. I’d only monitor the P4k’s with this setup

Could run sdi cables but that would require more converters.. I’m thinking to use timecode on all in order to keep everything synced up . I’ve been told that’s the way to go to make editing easier and keeping all the audio and video in sync . Just not quite sure how to get timecode into protools but I’m sure it can be done
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Tbaker

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Re: Setup for Multicam in a recording studio

PostFri Aug 09, 2019 7:27 pm

Guess Ill just report back if it all works lol

Thanks
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: Setup for Multicam in a recording studio

PostSat Aug 10, 2019 12:35 am

If you are doing cable runs of more than 15-20 ft, I would probably use SDI. It's just going to be much more reliable, and since it sounds like you are going to be doing HD monitoring anyway, the HD-only HDMI to SDI converters are not that expensive these days.

I'm not sure what switches you are thinking of using, but keep in mind that most of the lower end video switches do not do clean cuts between different video sources. And some can take several seconds to lock to a new video source after switching which may mean seeing a black screen in the interim. This can be pretty frustrating if frequently switching sources frequently while monitoring.

I think you would probably be happier with something like a MultiView HD or MultiView 4 which will allow you to monitor all 4 sources simultaneously in a quad-split view on an HDMI monitor or TV. With the MultiView 4 you could use a 4K screen which would mean each quadrant would be a full 1080p image.

In terms of timecode, the Pocket 4K can read LTC timecode from an audio input, which is nice. The GoPro's unfortunately do not have any built-in timecode functionality, although there are some 3rd party solutions like Timecode Systems SyncBac Pro which add timecode capability to various GoPro models:
https://www.timecodesystems.com/how-to- ... pro-hero6/

You will need a timecode generator of some sort, which could be an external LTC generator (in which case you would feed this into your ProTools system as well as sending this to all of the cameras). You could also probably use the ProTools system as the timecode master. I think the official ProTools solution for this is the Avid Sync HD hardware, but you might also be able to get by with a MIDI Timecode (MTC) to LTC converter like LockStep (https://figure53.com/lockstep) or Horae (https://sononum.net/horae).
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Tbaker

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Re: Setup for Multicam in a recording studio

PostMon Aug 12, 2019 1:22 pm

Hey Dave. Thanks for the further response ! It’s really not a problem to use sdi. I’ll be using a BM smartview duo to monitor my two p4k in the control room. I won’t be doing any cutting or switching live , I’ll just be monitoring what the camera see’s while I’m in the control room. To direct someone else setting up the shot and to make sure nothing changes during recording the shot.

It would be nice to have a switcher to decide which feeds I put on the smart view duo .. I was thinking hdmi. Because I see a lot of inexpensive hdmi switches but not sdi .. but the smartview duo is sdi so that part is easy and I can just use the converter right after the camera

I bought a timecode systems bundle with 2 syncbac pros and also a three pack of ultra syncs for the p4k’s and another DSLR I have .. I have to pick up one more syncbac pro yo have all the cameras covered by timecode.
Just have to figure out how to bring the timecode into a pro tools session from the pulse. I found a lemo to xlr adaptor so maybe I can record timecode from the pulse unit as audio and convert it in resolve like I think you have to do with the p4k timecode recorded via 3.5mm input. Pulse is still a week out as far as delivery .. 2 P4K. Arriving tomorrow!

With the pulse I can control the go pros from the control room individually as well thru their Blink hub.. pretty cool. Hope it all works. I know I have some learning curve to deal with


Dave Del Vecchio wrote:If you are doing cable runs of more than 15-20 ft, I would probably use SDI. It's just going to be much more reliable, and since it sounds like you are going to be doing HD monitoring anyway, the HD-only HDMI to SDI converters are not that expensive these days.

I'm not sure what switches you are thinking of using, but keep in mind that most of the lower end video switches do not do clean cuts between different video sources. And some can take several seconds to lock to a new video source after switching which may mean seeing a black screen in the interim. This can be pretty frustrating if frequently switching sources frequently while monitoring.

I think you would probably be happier with something like a MultiView HD or MultiView 4 which will allow you to monitor all 4 sources simultaneously in a quad-split view on an HDMI monitor or TV. With the MultiView 4 you could use a 4K screen which would mean each quadrant would be a full 1080p image.

In terms of timecode, the Pocket 4K can read LTC timecode from an audio input, which is nice. The GoPro's unfortunately do not have any built-in timecode functionality, although there are some 3rd party solutions like Timecode Systems SyncBac Pro which add timecode capability to various GoPro models:
https://www.timecodesystems.com/how-to- ... pro-hero6/

You will need a timecode generator of some sort, which could be an external LTC generator (in which case you would feed this into your ProTools system as well as sending this to all of the cameras). You could also probably use the ProTools system as the timecode master. I think the official ProTools solution for this is the Avid Sync HD hardware, but you might also be able to get by with a MIDI Timecode (MTC) to LTC converter like LockStep (https://figure53.com/lockstep) or Horae (https://sononum.net/horae).
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: Setup for Multicam in a recording studio

PostTue Aug 13, 2019 4:28 am

There are some relatively low cost SDI switches like these:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=10320

But as with the low cost HDMI switches, these will have a delay in switching sources which may black out the screen for several seconds until the switch locks to the new source. So I wouldn't really recommend this, as I think it will be frustrating to use for monitoring purposes.

I think you'd probably be much better off with either a second SmartView Duo, or an inexpensive HDMI monitor and a MultiView 4 HD so that you can monitor all four sources simultaneously. Even something like a 22 inch 1080p HDMI monitor with a quad split multiview would give you four quadrants that are both larger and higher resolution than the SmartView Duo screens.

In terms of timecode, the Timecode Systems Pulse has two LTC timecode output ports. The LEMO connector has dedicated timecode input and output pins. The BNC connector can be set to output LTC timecode, video reference sync (genlock), or wordclock. LTC timecode is usually just an unbalanced audio signal, so you can use adapters or splitters if needed to adapt to different connector types.

The Pocket Cinema Camera 4K will read LTC timecode from the audio input and stamp the video files with this timecode. This is not usually recorded as an audio track. You can feed the timecode as an audio signal to ProTools and record it as an audio track if you want to, but if you use an LTC to MIDI timecode converter, then you can have the recordings stamped with the input timecode (in the file metadata) without needing to record a separate audio track for this.
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Tbaker

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Re: Setup for Multicam in a recording studio

PostTue Aug 13, 2019 1:23 pm

Thanks for all the great advice Dave! The LTC to Midi converter sounds great. I never use midi so not sure how to input it to pro tools but I’ll figure it out.. thanks again for all your help!


Dave Del Vecchio wrote:There are some relatively low cost SDI switches like these:
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=10320

But as with the low cost HDMI switches, these will have a delay in switching sources which may black out the screen for several seconds until the switch locks to the new source. So I wouldn't really recommend this, as I think it will be frustrating to use for monitoring purposes.

I think you'd probably be much better off with either a second SmartView Duo, or an inexpensive HDMI monitor and a MultiView 4 HD so that you can monitor all four sources simultaneously. Even something like a 22 inch 1080p HDMI monitor with a quad split multiview would give you four quadrants that are both larger and higher resolution than the SmartView Duo screens.

In terms of timecode, the Timecode Systems Pulse has two LTC timecode output ports. The LEMO connector has dedicated timecode input and output pins. The BNC connector can be set to output LTC timecode, video reference sync (genlock), or wordclock. LTC timecode is usually just an unbalanced audio signal, so you can use adapters or splitters if needed to adapt to different connector types.

The Pocket Cinema Camera 4K will read LTC timecode from the audio input and stamp the video files with this timecode. This is not usually recorded as an audio track. You can feed the timecode as an audio signal to ProTools and record it as an audio track if you want to, but if you use an LTC to MIDI timecode converter, then you can have the recordings stamped with the input timecode (in the file metadata) without needing to record a separate audio track for this.
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Tbaker

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Re: Setup for Multicam in a recording studio

PostTue Aug 13, 2019 11:03 pm

Looks like Lockstep can do the job Ill give that a go!

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