The BMPC4K Grades

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Marco Solorio

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 3:11 am

Those grades look nice, CaptainHook. Well done.
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CaptainHook

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 3:15 am

Thanks Marco! Hope you're well. :)
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 3:37 am

Yes, excellent example grades CaptainHook. Cheers!
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Scott Stacy

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 4:12 am

Nice job on the canal grade, Mr. Hook.

On another note … I have a late 2012 iMac (top of the line back then) and NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680MX 2048 MB graphics card. I'm showing real sharp still images while grading and then during playback, things go soft. I'm not dropping any frames. Anyone else experiencing this?
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rick.lang

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 4:22 am

CaptainHook wrote:Thanks! I'd actually love to know what lenses Grant used on these, the images feel quite 'painterly'.


Painterly. That's the word. I would use to describe both his clips and your excellent grade.

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rick.lang

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 4:29 am

Scott Stacy wrote:Nice job on the canal grade, Mr. Hook.

On another note … I have a late 2012 iMac (top of the line back then) and NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680MX 2048 MB graphics card. I'm showing real sharp still images while grading and then during playback, things go soft. I'm not dropping any frames. Anyone else experiencing this?


I hope tomorrow, with the release of the new Mac Pro, Peter Chamberlain is able to release an update to the DaVinci Resolve Configuration Guide that indicates his minimum recommended configurations for the Mac Pro. When working with 4K, he may recommend more than 2 GB VRAM. I believe the current guide does mention that 2 GB should handle some grading and playback of HD and 2K but not 4K. My 2009 iMac can't even load Resolve and plays the 4K clips erratically.

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KKenz

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 4:54 am

good on ya mate!..
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CaptainHook

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 5:47 am

Geoff Baxter wrote:It is actually the River Yarra and is famous for being brown!

Oh, i had no idea! I just thought Grant caught it on a bad day, which i guess is 'everyday' then! Thanks.
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 7:40 am

Fun with scaling & cropping Grant's 4K ProRes HQ files in FCP7 (info on the Vimeo page):

https://vimeo.com/82263231

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Michael Sandiford

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 8:23 am

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:Fun with scaling & cropping Grant's 4K ProRes HQ files in FCP7 (info on the Vimeo page):

https://vimeo.com/82263231

-

That image holds up wonderfully even with the vimeo codec.
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Nick Vega

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 8:59 am

I am very surprised by the latitude of the prores files. They grade well!

https://vimeo.com/82269682

Deff not a low light camera, but spectacular otherwise!

Image
Image
Image
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Aaron DeBerry

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 9:26 am

CaptainHook, excellent work!

I'll add my own amateur attempt at grading these files (an attempt at a more natural look):

https://vimeo.com/82268283


It looks like either several clips didn't successfully unpack (Windows users are having some difficulty unzipping the file), or by the time I downloaded the samples some sections had been removed. Either way, I did not see some of the scenes I am seeing in other peoples videos. Hmm ...

Still, I really like the quality of the footage!
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Michael Sandiford

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 9:31 am

Even with the small amount of grades I'm seeing it does look like they've achieved a harmony in the colour and image science throughout the range of cameras.
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Panamatom

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 11:13 am

Even with Mountain Lion these files are not shown with the correct resolution. Only 1364x766 px. This resolution is displayed in After Effects. In Quicktime the resolution looks right, but the file information is still corrupt. In Resolve everything looks right, but I´m a Adobe guy ...
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Dane Meale

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 11:29 am

Wow, this camera looks stunning! Captainhook's grade is truly amazing. Thank you Blackmagic :P
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adamroberts

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 12:45 pm

Had a chance to play with the files this morning while waiting for client feedback on another job.

Files are really nice. More detail than the BMCC due to the resolution. Here are a few screen shots of my take on the shots.

Right click and select "Open image in new tab" to view the 4K jpeg.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
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Jules Bushell

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 1:18 pm

I'm wondering what the ISO and the DR of the BMPC4K are?

Can we measure it from the footage or at least guesstimate?

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adamroberts

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 1:31 pm

At a guess, after playing with the files and without knowing the settings of the camera or what lens was used I'd say:
ISO: 640
DR: 11 stops
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Mark Davies

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 2:06 pm

BM - The footage looks great so when can we have the camera?
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Terry Frechette

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 2:28 pm

Morning:

For those asking what lenses Grant shot with, I know for most of them he used Canon 35 to 70 and 70 to 200 mm lenses. Couple of them he used a different lens, which I will find out.

And Geoff, sounds like you have been on the Yarra. The river walk along the Yarra in Melbourne is absolutely beautiful. Especially at Christmas with all the lights on over the walking bridges. But yes, that is its normal color.

Terry
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sebasti

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 2:45 pm

Finder's properties with QT 10.2 shows 1364x766.

Premiere CC opens them as 1364x766. In clip properties it says Frame Size 3840x2160, but says 1364x767 on image size which seems to be how it is interpreted.

There's difference in colour science between 4K and BMCC? Shrine city view clip's grass turns all yellow if you apply filmconvert with BMCC film camera profile.
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Soeren Mueller

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 2:51 pm

sebasti wrote:There's difference in colour science between 4K and BMCC? Shrine city view clip's grass turns all yellow if you apply filmconvert with BMCC film camera profile.


Of course there is.. the sensor is from a totally different "family" of sensors. No matter how hard you work on it you can't just magically get it to "emulate" the exact same BMCC color science (that most of us grew to love!)..
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Theodore Prentice

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 3:11 pm

rick.lang wrote: Can't wait to see what John and Frank and Marco and Rick and Philip and others will hopefully have for us in the next few weeks.



lol, cant wait to shoot for yourself? Its this attitude bmd relys on to market pre-orders and NOT deliver anything on time.

Enough hype and "show us your grades" - we did that with Afterglow, can we get any solid info on when the cameras might ship? Can we get updates to the first camera?

I prefer to (beta) test my own gear, thank you.

With that said, the images look stunning, as expected. Hopefully production units will ship before summer of 2014
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Razor

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 3:56 pm

Grant said "..standard still camera lenses" It sure would be nice to know what the exact lenses were. The shots are great, but still a little on the soft side.
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rick.lang

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 6:42 pm

Theodore Prentice wrote:
rick.lang wrote: Can't wait to see what John and Frank and Marco and Rick and Philip and others will hopefully have for us in the next few weeks.


lol, cant wait to shoot for yourself
...
I prefer to (beta) test my own gear, thank you...


Theodore, I agree, I can't wait to shoot for myself since I know best what I like. But I also am still trying to decide between the BMPC4K and the BMCC MFT augmented with the Speed Booster for BMCC.

I'm hoping in the next month or so, it will be clear which I should buy, and hearing from the people I mentioned will influence that. If I was in a store today, and both cameras were on the shelf, I'd take the BMPC4K. But I'm not, and while the BMPC4K isn't shipping in production volumes, I'm eager to learn what I can from those who have access to both the cameras and will make their own conclusions (without any consensus on their part I expect).

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Ferenc Józsa

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 6:57 pm

CaptainHook wrote:A quick pass in Resolve with a healthy dose of saturation - i can see people LOVING this camera.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image



I love your work CaptainHook, the perfect balance color/contrast/saturation :)
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Mark Davies

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 7:25 pm

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thedest

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 7:37 pm

CaptainHook, what have you done in your grading? Were you trying to create a "look" or were you trying to achieve a natural result? Were you using your LUT?

CaptainHook wrote:Image


All of the colors are off and there is hidden DR. I can also see some softness caused by the lack of local contrast.

Here is an example of a natural correction, trying to recreate natural colors. Nothing especial was done, only basic corrections.

Image

And another comparison. Again, recovering more dynamic range and better colors. There is a pink toning in your midtones. Are you using split toning or are you just pumping the global saturation?

CaptainHook wrote:
Image


Image

In the pier scene you had a great idea. Unfortunately that scene has a BIG blown out spot in the top-right. You have added a purple gradient to hide it. It looks very pleasant. All the colors have been changed, even the color of the pier, but you made an unusable shot usable. Nice work.
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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 8:05 pm

Looks like it still has the Red = Orange issue, unless of course everyone is wearing orange shirts and orange shoes etc..
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thedest

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 8:12 pm

8-)
Razor wrote:Grant said "..standard still camera lenses" It sure would be nice to know what the exact lenses were. The shots are great, but still a little on the soft side.


Thats not a problem with the lens, its a "problem" with the codec and the "colorist".

Remember, thats a 4k video, so it has more detail than your display can show, so even if the lens is soft, the video will have enough detail to give you a REAL 1080p resolution.

The thing is, most people have no idea how to add "local contrast" on ProRes files. They usually use the "sharpening tool" or the "unsharpen mask", and those tools are very tricky. Some people like the soft look though. I dont. I like sharp images.

And the thing is. This camera is giving you all the details you need, you just have to know how to sharpen them.
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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 8:24 pm

Loookin good guys. Some nice grades. Still a bit skeptical until I SEE SOME HUMAN FACES! Skin tone means too much to me to be overlooked but I have high hopes! Can anyone crop in on those runners when they aren't smeared by motion blur to get an idea?

Andy
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CaptainHook

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 8:25 pm

thedest wrote:CaptainHook, what have you done in your grading? Were you trying to create a "look" or were you trying to achieve a natural result? Were you using your LUT?

I didn't use my LUT that's i've shared no. I was just quickly playing with the footage and seeing how far I could push it. I mentioned on BMCUser I wasn't really concerned about pushing the highlights etc, and at times trying to maintain DR looks/feels boring to me and in this case going for neutral/natural didn't interest me. Since there's no story attached to the images, i pushed around the colours and just had fun. :)
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Marcel Beck

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostThu Dec 19, 2013 8:48 pm

for once I skip a day to check the forum and all mayhem breaks loose, jeez that looks amazing! I cannot wait for the 4k cam! Super grades!
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostFri Dec 20, 2013 2:05 am

Tried to replicate CaptainHooks look of the River Yarra, close but not quite :?:

Hooks
Image



My attempt
Image
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Art Roberts

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostFri Dec 20, 2013 2:48 am

All these grades look awesome. And the differences depend on the look you are after. I lean more towards Adam's, because I prefer the warm look. I detect the use of the qualifiers tool in Resolve in isolating the skies and subsequently ramping up the saturation. CaptainHook's grade is a more cooler, mid-day kind of look, which in no doubt is marvelous.
Seeing all these images at 4K for 4K; coupled with global shutter, and then having two BMCC EFs in my arsenal, both valued at 6K, I feel weak at the knees, having troubled nights, palpitations .......I FEEL SCREWED.
May eventually cut my loses, sell one of my EFs and spring for one of these.
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Joe Gonzalez

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostFri Dec 20, 2013 2:49 am

As usual, you have the best grades Hook. Awesome :D
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostFri Dec 20, 2013 3:01 am

Art Roberts wrote:All these grades look awesome. And the differences depend on the look you are after. I lean more towards Adam's, because I prefer the warm look. I detect the use of the qualifiers tool in Resolve in isolating the skies and subsequently ramping up the saturation. CaptainHook's grade is a more cooler, mid-day kind of look, which in no doubt is marvelous.
Seeing all these images at 4K for 4K; coupled with global shutter, and then having two BMCC EFs in my arsenal, both valued at 6K, I feel weak at the knees, having troubled nights, palpitations .......I FEEL SCREWED.
May eventually cut my loses, sell one of my EFs and spring for one of these.


Hey Art, I also lean more towards warmth or neutral colors since most of my clients have no clue as to what options they have, but I (as did Captainhook) wanted to see how far I could push these Prores HQ files, and I must say it was fun trying to replicate Captainhooks look, But nothing I would normally do for a client unless they "Let me loose" and let me do something more artistic.

Fact of the matter is using Resolve is such a joy, just have fun with it.
Update: what i meant to say is that working with The cinema 2.5K and now the 4K Prores in Resolve 10 (light or Full) has been a joy, and I look forward to working with the BM Production cameras 4K raw soon!


As far as you feeling week in the knees I feel you have many great options, and I would think about it before jumping the gun.
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostFri Dec 20, 2013 4:13 am

Joe Gonzalez wrote:As usual, you have the best grades Hook. Awesome :D

I actually like my grade better, but like they say beauty is in the eye of the....No not beholder just a decent monitor :lol:
Just kidding (except I do like my grade better) I did all my work in resolve 10 light, on my laptop, I agree Hook has the looks :D
Why do you think i even tried to replicate it?
Last edited by Darryl Gregory on Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Samjack

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostFri Dec 20, 2013 4:15 am

thedest wrote:
Image

Image



Most of the gradings so far look videoish or similar to stills from a P&S camera but yours are amongst the few that is good enough comparable to what one would expect from a dSLR stills. Welldone.
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostFri Dec 20, 2013 4:21 am

We can talk for years about CC and Grading, simple fact is...If it's new & interesting and or pleasing, or something that feels and fits the shot (Transformers Block Buster Bluish Teal Look) then it will be accepted by many, I find it a little over the TOP, but that's probably because I'm older and love film, and a true movie cinema fan.

The days of watching a beautifully shot film/on film is losing it's luster, and that is sad,
today we can watch HD images on our new LED TV's that look almost 3 dimensional @120hz, that's not good for Cinema, but for Sports?? yeah It's great!.

Movie theaters need to stay alive, the hole point of going out on Saturday night to see a movie was that it looked awesome compared to the old TV's we all owned years ago,
Now?.. You have TV's as large as some small theater screens in your living room, and that's not the bad part, the bad part is...It's is no longer Cinema, It's ULTRA HD, this is not good for Cinema/Film lovers and enthusiasts.

Now my point for this post was that the BM Cinema 2.5K looks a lot more like Film, so all of you who think that you purchased the wrong camera now that we are seeing what the Production camera is capable of...Relax, or buy both, I am, In fact Will own the BMCC EF, BMCC MFT, and the BMPC 4K,
Why?? Because they are all priced to fit in my business plan.
Last edited by Darryl Gregory on Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostFri Dec 20, 2013 4:51 am

Dmitry Kitsov
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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostFri Dec 20, 2013 5:01 am

Dmitry Kitsov wrote:http://youtu.be/69OqdW7iC80


Nice Dmitry, I like that it is neutral and that objects in the foreground have more detail, saturation/color, it's what it should look like from the human eye, distant objects have clouds/smog/etc that lend to degradation in saturation and clarity.

I like this kind of color correction, well done.
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostFri Dec 20, 2013 5:17 am

Geoff Baxter wrote:I find it interesting to speculate on whether the grades look like film or television, particularly when it is very difficult to get hold of a piece of film negative that has actually been shot in a cinema context, of the same subject.

I did a lot of film grading in the past, and to be honest, there was a lot of garbage shot by so-called film professionals, and a fair bit of it was not up to the standards we see today in electronic cinema.

Geoff

It is all subjective Geoff, I rely on my minds eye, I have seen plenty of films in my life time here in Los Angeles in the most up to date theaters and technology and projectors, I.E IMAX, Cinerama Dome etc, and around the world during my travels.

But let me answer your point Geoff, Many films have now been Digitized (not Colorized) and that is how we can differentiate, or compare color & grading from our past and compare it now.
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Dmitry Kitsov

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostFri Dec 20, 2013 5:50 am

Darryl Gregory wrote:
Dmitry Kitsov wrote:http://youtu.be/69OqdW7iC80


Nice Dmitry, I like that it is neutral and that objects in the foreground have more detail, saturation/color, it's what it should look like from the human eye, distant objects have clouds/smog/etc that lend to degradation in saturation and clarity.

I like this kind of color correction, well done.

Thanks, was a quick one, did not do any shots matching
Dmitry Kitsov
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostFri Dec 20, 2013 5:56 am

Geoff Baxter wrote:
Darryl Gregory wrote:But let me answer your point Geoff, Many films have now been Digitized (not Colorized) and that is how we can differentiate, or compare color & grading from our past and compare it now.


True, but how many of them have been digitised from the original neg.? Most features are released many generations of print removed from the original. I spent most of my working life in the city depicted in those shots, and I figure I know the locations reasonably well, some even intimately. A lot of neg of those places passed through my telecine chain and in all honesty, I don't recall them ever looking that good.

As a case in point, no-one has yet got the colour of the river right :D

(That is an observation, not a criticism)


Honestly i have never seen the river, but from what i hear? the color of coffee comes to mind, but that's the point? isn't it?, you have seen it with the human eye, I have never.

Here is my old attempt from yesterday, just a simple quick one node CC.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/47206314/00086400.mov

Do not try and play it over the browser, save file to your Mac or PC.

PC use right mouse click, and choose "save link as"
Mac?? I think it is the APPLE button and left click?? lol I forgot
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Kholi Hicks

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostFri Dec 20, 2013 6:53 am

Geoff Baxter wrote:
Darryl Gregory wrote:But let me answer your point Geoff, Many films have now been Digitized (not Colorized) and that is how we can differentiate, or compare color & grading from our past and compare it now.


True, but how many of them have been digitised from the original neg.? Most features are released many generations of print removed from the original. I spent most of my working life in the city depicted in those shots, and I figure I know the locations reasonably well, some even intimately. A lot of neg of those places passed through my telecine chain and in all honesty, I don't recall them ever looking that good.

As a case in point, no-one has yet got the colour of the river right :D

(That is an observation, not a criticism)


Actually found this to be an interesting thought. The color of the river. I've never seen it...
Image

I am curious what it looks like in real life.
Last edited by Kholi Hicks on Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:02 am, edited 6 times in total.
Kholi Hicks
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostFri Dec 20, 2013 6:57 am

Kholi, are you tired, or did you just repeat yourself and didn't know it? :D
Your post reads kinda like the script from Deja Vu (2006) :lol:
UPDATE: Never mind It's either I'm tired or seeing double lol

Goodnight!
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostFri Dec 20, 2013 7:03 am

Ahh you fixed your last post, good, I thought I was losing it. :D
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Darryl Gregory

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  • Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:49 am
  • Location: LA

Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostFri Dec 20, 2013 7:06 am

I would like to hear from Grant about the color of the river the day he was there.
Anyway It's been fun, but I need sleep.

Good night all!
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Kholi Hicks

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  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:23 pm

Re: The BMPC4K Grades

PostFri Dec 20, 2013 7:11 am

Geoff Baxter wrote:It is a very ordinary brown, varies in shade according to the time of year. In that shot there should be a fair amount of blue reflected sky, but in the shaded areas the brown would be quite noticeable.


Got the still uploaded... different than the other forum.

I could see the blue in the water from the sky, bodes well for color separation once you get down to it.

Also re: sky detail (someone else posted it) you can't keep that detail without forcing the rest of the image to go murky/dark. It's a window or you lose it IMO.

Grads (in camera) are still pretty relevant these days. xD
Kholi Hicks
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