Renting an URSA Mini 4.6k

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Trent Garlipp

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Renting an URSA Mini 4.6k

PostThu Feb 16, 2017 4:12 am

Hey everyone,

I'm thinking of renting the URSA Mini 4.6k for my advanced thesis film in college and I have a few questions. I own the BMPCC and really like the image quality and Blackmagic's color science and dynamic range, but I have some concerns about the URSA.

Is there any way to shoot at a lower resolution than 4.6k without cropping the sensor? I really want to finish the film in 1080p or 2K but want the extra detail of the entire sensor, and to be able to get wider shots than the pocket camera. If not, what's a good resolution to compromise and not be cropped too much?

I also want to know what kind of file sizes I'm looking at. I would be shooting prores, not raw, so how much data can I expect after a day of shooting? I can only afford so much as far as hard-drives go and it would be nice to shoot at smaller resolutions to save space, but if that's not possible without cropping an insane amount then I guess I'd have to shoot at one of the higher resolutions.

Also if anybody's rented an URSA mini 4.6K in NYC do you know if they have any issues or if most rental houses have units with the 'better' less faulty sensors? Because I know there was a problem before with some sensors having the magenta corners issue even worse than normal. Basically I want to know if this camera will give me trouble during the shoot.

Okay final question. Is there anything I need to know about this camera, any weird quirks or useful features/exposure tips that I wouldn't already know by having the pocket camera for a few years?

Sorry if this is kind of rambling, I'm really tired.

Thanks!
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timbutt2

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Re: Renting an URSA Mini 4.6k

PostThu Feb 16, 2017 5:37 am

Hello Trent,

Let me address your first main concern: no crop if shooting ProRes. Since you said that is your main codec, then you shouldn't worry as you'll be able to shoot 2K or HD ProRes and use the full sensor. If you shoot RAW then it crops when you go to the lower resolutions.

Next the files sizes can be easily calculated based upon the Apple ProRes Spec Sheet. In general you'll probably shoot either ProRes 444 or ProRes 422 HQ, so you'll be looking at these file sizes...

2K: 444 gets 110 min on 256 GB (2.33 GB per min), and 422 HQ gets 164 min on 256 GB (1.56 GB per min)
HD: 444 gets 126 min on 256 GB (2.03 GB per min), and 422 HQ gets 188 min on 256 GB (1.36 GB per min)

As to renting in NYC I can't quite help with as to who to rent from. Rental houses may be pricier than your budget because you also need to provide proof of insurance in order to rent. If I use my alma mater as an example we did not get provided rental insurance since they intended us to rent out the gear at the school. Your best bet is to find someone in NYC with the rig who is willing to give you a student discount rental deal.

As to your final question: download and read the manual. I can't emphasis this enough for anyone who is not familiar with a camera. It's a good practice to get into because it helps you familiarize yourself with a camera before you get your hands on it.

Good luck!
"Movies are not watched. They are an encounter with a life's experience not your own." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

Cameras: URSA Mini 4.6K EF & Cinema Camera 2.5K EF
Computers: iMac 5K (Late 2015) & MacBook Pro Retina 15.4in (Early 2013)
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Trent Garlipp

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Re: Renting an URSA Mini 4.6k

PostThu Feb 16, 2017 4:26 pm

Thanks for the information.
I just read through the manual and now I feel a lot more prepared, but I have one question that was unclear in the manual:
Can I use false color on the pull-out LCD or do I have to have an external monitor or the BlackMagic Viewfinder to see it? In the manual it's in the section on the viewfinder so I wasn't sure.

Also I'm pretty sure our school has the insurance but I'll have to check.

Otherwise, does anyone else here rent out their camera in NYC? I'd need it for a week-long shoot at the end of April into the very beginning of May.

Thanks guys.
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Dom Dycaico

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Re: Renting an URSA Mini 4.6k

PostThu Feb 16, 2017 4:35 pm

Trent Garlipp wrote:Thanks for the information.
I just read through the manual and now I feel a lot more prepared, but I have one question that was unclear in the manual:
Can I use false color on the pull-out LCD or do I have to have an external monitor or the BlackMagic Viewfinder to see it? In the manual it's in the section on the viewfinder so I wasn't sure.

Also I'm pretty sure our school has the insurance but I'll have to check.

Otherwise, does anyone else here rent out their camera in NYC? I'd need it for a week-long shoot at the end of April into the very beginning of May.

Thanks guys.


if the URSA that you're going to rent use OS4.0 or higher, you can assign one of the shortcut buttons (F1/F2) to trigger false color (flip out lcd, front sdi and/or rear sdi).

good luck on your thesis :)
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: Renting an URSA Mini 4.6k

PostThu Feb 16, 2017 5:29 pm

I think BorrowLenses and LensRentals rent out Black Magic cameras. Most rental houses won't, the rates wouldn't be enough to justify carrying them given their prices.
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rick.lang

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Renting an URSA Mini 4.6k

PostThu Feb 16, 2017 5:47 pm

Be sure to update your firmware if the rental house hasn't already done that (ask them to do it) and if you rent the Blackmagic Viewfinder, it also needs to have firmware updated. Don't forget to do a Black Shading Calibration with the body cap on (waiting perhaps 10 minutes after turning the power on).

I shoot ProRes 444 XQ 12 bit most of the time and the choice is yours to shoot full sensor resolution or any lower resolution downscaled (as you prefer) or windowed which effectively gives you a longer focal length when you crop the sensor. But having the full sensor, 4608x2592, will give you the wider angle of view and arguably be more 'cinematic.' I record mostly in 2K with that Super 35 angle of view.

You likely will want to be sure you have an IR Cut filter (best) or use IRND filters (which may suffice) as you know the BMD cameras can be susceptible to IR pollution.


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Jamie LeJeune

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Re: Renting an URSA Mini 4.6k

PostFri Feb 17, 2017 3:42 am

rick.lang wrote:You likely will want to be sure you have an IR Cut filter (best) or use IRND filters (which may suffice) as you know the BMD cameras can be susceptible to IR pollution.



+1 to this advice

If you're using the EF model with stills glass, the best cost effective solution I've found is to pair a Hoya IR cut with the SLR Magic Vari ND II. If going this way, I recommend getting step up (or step down) rings to get all your lenses to a single filter thread size (77mm is usually a good size to go with) so you can roll with a single filter set.

Or, if you have more cash and a mattebox, John Brawley recommends Lee ProGlass Cine IRND filters:

https://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/2017/01/21/irnd-filters/
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Adam Silver

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Re: Renting an URSA Mini 4.6k

PostFri Feb 17, 2017 5:10 am

For renting you could try http://www.sharegrid.com. You pay for insurance and rent from a local owner.

Adam
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Trent Garlipp

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Re: Renting an URSA Mini 4.6k

PostFri Feb 17, 2017 5:45 am

We get a set of PL mount zeiss CP2s in our school's camera package that I was planning to use with the Ursa Mini 4.6k... what IR and ND solution would you guys recommend for those lenses?
Any rental places offer them? I currently have a 77mm Hoya IR cut filter for my BMPCC but the CP2s have a wider filter threading than that for sure.
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John Brawley

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Re: Renting an URSA Mini 4.6k

PostFri Feb 17, 2017 1:43 pm

Yes you can shoot 1920 from the full 4.6K sensor and you can do it in ProRes.

1920 is magnificent from the Ursa Mini 4.6K.

I would urge you to find a way to do 444 ProRes as the extra bit depth really makes a huge difference in colour correction.

And yes, you can choose to see false colour on the LCD screen, the main SDI output or the EVF SDI output, or all three.

You should look to rent some IR ND's as well. Go for Nisi, Mitomo TRUE, Lee CinePro or Firecrest. You need larger filters and a mattebox to go with your CP's, like the PSR 4 x 5.65" size.

JB
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Tommaso Alvisi

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Re: Renting an URSA Mini 4.6k

PostFri Feb 17, 2017 1:53 pm

John Brawley wrote:1920 is magnificent from the Ursa Mini 4.6K.


Hey John, thanks for chiming in!

I like the BM colors but I find the 4.6K is somewhat too sharp so did you find the 1080p keep this more under control?

I mean are the (albeit rarer) artifacts present @ 4.6K like moire and aliasing absent @ 1080p ProRes 444?

How clean is it really? Like almost perfect or simply you just notice artifacts less because it's scaled down??

I don't need resolution, I need color information and smoothness with the least artifacts possible...

Thanks again John!
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rick.lang

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Re: Renting an URSA Mini 4.6k

PostFri Feb 17, 2017 4:08 pm

If you want a little wiggle room in post to reframe, shoot 2K 2048x1152 downscaled from the full sensor and add those clips to an HD 1920x1080 timeline with the clips centred, no cropping. Then you can reframe or apply stabilization in Resolve for a better deliverable. Downscaling does seem to take the edge off real edges, but actually can enhance detail as compared to shooting HD in a window.


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Jamie LeJeune

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Re: Renting an URSA Mini 4.6k

PostFri Feb 17, 2017 9:17 pm

John Brawley wrote:You should look to rent some IR ND's as well. Go for Nisi, Mitomo TRUE, Lee CinePro or Firecrest.
JB


I own a complete set of Firecrest ND, and they work great on the pocket and original 2.5K, but they don't seem to cut enough IR on the 4.6K compared with the Hoya IR filter. Do you find that the Firecrest are as good at cutting IR on the 4.6K as the other options you listed?
Last edited by Jamie LeJeune on Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rick.lang

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Re: Renting an URSA Mini 4.6k

PostFri Feb 17, 2017 11:03 pm

Thanks, for the heads-up on that, Jamie. I'll watch for that when my NiSi Nano IRND arrive since they also may behave the same as the Firecrest.


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Trent Garlipp

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Re: Renting an URSA Mini 4.6k

PostWed Mar 01, 2017 12:58 am

John Brawley wrote:You should look to rent some IR ND's as well. Go for Nisi, Mitomo TRUE, Lee CinePro or Firecrest. You need larger filters and a mattebox to go with your CP's, like the PSR 4 x 5.65" size.

JB


Can anyone recommend a place to rent any of these in NYC? I'm finding it difficult to find any of them

Would these suffice?

https://www.lensrentals.com/rent/4-x-5.6-tiffen-hot-mirror-irnd-filter-kit
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rick.lang

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Renting an URSA Mini 4.6k

PostWed Mar 01, 2017 5:02 am

Stronger Tiffen ND filters seem to have a noticeable colour cast on BMD sensors. There's another thread here on ND filters that includes a recent video by Tom Antos using Cavision and Tiffen filters. The Tiffen cost more than the Cavision and don't perform as well on Tom's URSA Mini 4.6K camera. Try to find the NiDi Nano or Formatt-Hitech Firecrest as John suggested. I've posted a video review of the NiSi and will be reshooting that in a more complete review within two weeks.


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Trent Garlipp

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Re: Renting an URSA Mini 4.6k

PostThu Mar 02, 2017 8:04 pm

I seriously can't find any of those filters anywhere here to rent, do you guys all own them?
This is becoming a problem, as I definitely can't afford to buy a set of IRNDs when we're just renting the camera.

Seems like an oversight on the rental houses that rent out full URSA mini 4.6k packages with accessories but no filters that are actually usable.

Has anyone had any luck renting IRNDs for this camera in NYC? Or anywhere else?
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rick.lang

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Re: Renting an URSA Mini 4.6k

PostThu Mar 02, 2017 9:25 pm

URSA Mini Pro 4.6K available and shipping now includes IRND. Might be an option for some!


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