VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

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Larry Masters

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VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostThu Mar 09, 2017 10:32 pm

So I finally have all of the equipment I need to put this kit together. I may add more later but this is the start. I made a diagram showing how I think I can connect everything through the VideoHub.

This routing leaves me with 26 SDI input, 4 HDMI inputs (routed though Decimator MD-HX or MD-CROSS) and SDI output from the VIdeoHub. I did not add any routing for REF IN or OUT and no output connections for HDMI out of the equipment that has these type of connections.

Blue Lines are inputs to the VideoHub
Red Lines are outputs from the VIdeoHub
Yellow Lines are the 4 HDMI inputs mentioned above.

Swither Rack.png
Connection routing for switcher rack
Swither Rack.png (778.61 KiB) Viewed 842 times


I bought a Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI to apply a LUT to the PGM output. Not sure if this will work well or not.
I may remove the MultiView from the ATEM from passing through the VideoHub and take it right to the SDI panel.
Let me know what you think and if you see something I am doing wrong or could do better.
Last edited by Larry Masters on Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MambaFiber.com

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostThu Mar 09, 2017 10:49 pm

that looks like a very flexible setup, and very similar to several systems we have built here. we skipped the 16in multi viewer as we have the ATEM 2M/E and it has 2x 10 window MV built in. We do send the switcher MV's into the video hub for routing, and this leaves us with 20 video hub outputs to feed everything. 3 SDI outputs would never cut it around here. we also have 2 Audio to SDI embedders on the video hub for final audio mixes to PGM, and 2 dedicated 1x8 distribution DA's - one for PGM and one for AUX1 we always seem to need more outputs of these signals. :D

FYI, reference signals are analog, not digital and not compatible with the video hub anyway...

nice work though, post some pictures when it is built
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Larry Masters

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostThu Mar 09, 2017 11:00 pm

MambaFiber.com wrote:FYI, reference signals are analog, not digital and not compatible with the video hub anyway...

I wasn't planning on routing these through the VideoHub only connecting the units together. Any device that has video output that I do not route through the VideoHub I planned to take out the back of the rack to a patch panel (HDMI).

I could probably remove the MultiView at this point. I may get bigger switcher in the future.

I may not need to loop the HyperDecks back through the system, this would add 5 more inputs. I was thinking about this after posting the diagram. Since I have the DeckLink 4k Pro I might be able to pull any footage that would have been recorded on these devices off and push them back out the DeckLink. My key and fill will be coming from the DeckLink too so I would not be able to output them and a video for playback at the same time.

Waiting for Tom to tell me I should have got the 72X72 :lol:
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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostFri Mar 10, 2017 7:01 am

Larry Masters wrote:Waiting for Tom to tell me I should have got the 72X72 :lol:

It would be a huge headache to rebuild your video system because you needed to upgrade something, just go with the 288x288 :D
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Tom_Bassford

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostFri Mar 10, 2017 9:33 am

I'd loop the Hyperdecks back in so you can route them to monitors.

I'm finding it a little hard to follow your diagram as there is no indication of your sources or final destinations.

How many cameras etc do you have?




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Xtreemtec

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostFri Mar 10, 2017 11:19 am

At the video mixer.. You have 4 sdi in and 4 hdmi in with mini converters.. But i think you mean to say 4x SDI 2 HDMI instead of HDMI 2 SDI ;)

Why would you opt for a 40x40 12G router of $5000 if your mixer and other gear will not go higher then 3G? I would choose the 40x40 router which costs $3000.

I feel your Atem TVS HD is a bit under rated for what your spending on the hardware arround it.. Are you sure you don't want a 1M/E with some more functions... More inputs.. All SDI if needed.. Safes a few micro converters.. And price is justified with the $2000 you saved on the 40x40 router. :D

LUT with the Teranex SDI to HDMI.. You know the LUT will only be applied to the HDMI output?? The SDI output is only a loop true from the sdi input..
But i'm still wondering why you want to do a LUT on your output?? Are you working with Flat / Raw images from your cameras? Becuase then you also will record this into your hyperdecks right?

What cameras are you gonna use?
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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Larry Masters

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostFri Mar 10, 2017 11:58 am

Xtreemtec wrote:At the video mixer.. You have 4 sdi in and 4 hdmi in with mini converters.. But i think you mean to say 4x SDI 2 HDMI instead of HDMI 2 SDI ;)

Yes that was a mislabel.

Xtreemtec wrote:Why would you opt for a 40x40 12G router of $5000 if your mixer and other gear will not go higher then 3G? I would choose the 40x40 router which costs $3000.

I feel your Atem TVS HD is a bit under rated for what your spending on the hardware arround it.. Are you sure you don't want a 1M/E with some more functions... More inputs.. All SDI if needed.. Safes a few micro converters.. And price is justified with the $2000 you saved on the 40x40 router. :D


I am planning to add a larger ATEM in a few months, probably going with the 12G model on this too.

Xtreemtec wrote:LUT with the Teranex SDI to HDMI.. You know the LUT will only be applied to the HDMI output?? The SDI output is only a loop true from the sdi input..
But i'm still wondering why you want to do a LUT on your output?? Are you working with Flat / Raw images from your cameras? Becuase then you also will record this into your hyperdecks right?


From the product page https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/teranexmini

"The LUTs can also be output on the SDI loop thru output so you can even use Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI as a 3D LUT processor."

If this is wrong I will return it.

Th hyperdecks will be recording direct feeds from camera and other video inputs. The ATEM PGM output will be streamed and recorded to a Hyperdeck mini also. My plan to was to have the Teranex loaded with a LUT to color correct the live feeds and record PGM only.

Xtreemtec wrote:What cameras are you gonna use?


For live streaming on location I have ordered 4 PTXOptics (PT20X-SDI-GY-G2) that I will be using initially, all remote controlled using the HC-JOY-G2. I do not have these yet to test, they should be coming next week. May look at other cameras in the future if these setup does not work well. If someone has advice on better cameras that I can remote control I would not have a problem returning the PTXOptics.

I plan to setup a studio for more controlled streaming/recording and will be seeking advice on the cameras for this when I get there.
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Larry Masters

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostFri Mar 10, 2017 12:11 pm

Tom_Bassford wrote:I'd loop the Hyperdecks back in so you can route them to monitors.

Ok I will leave that as is.
Tom_Bassford wrote:I'm finding it a little hard to follow your diagram as there is no indication of your sources or final destinations.

Sources are the 26 VideoHub inputs, only 4 will be used for cameras and 2 for computer input for now.

Final destinations so far are the 3 output left on the Videohub, the Cube 655 for streaming.
Tom_Bassford wrote:How many cameras etc do you have?

I ordered 4 PTZOptics cameras that will be here next week. I plan to buy some studio type cameras for use in a studio I am setting up for this rig too.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostFri Mar 10, 2017 12:36 pm

Allright.. That awnsers some questions..

But still If you are going for a 2ME Broadcast Studio (The only 12G-sdi mixer they have)
What are you doing with all the other gear..

Gear ____ Max Resolution
Cameras: ___ 1080P60
Decimators __ 1080P60
Hyperdecks __ 2160P30 (6G-sdi)
Cube 655 ____ 1080P60

With that in mind.. What cameras will you upgrade to within 3 years.. (Because economical life of BMD gear is 3 years.. Or less.. Because after the waranty periode it won't get repaired anymore.. So if anythink breaks after waranty you can toss it in the trashbin..

So we have a policy of selling our gear when it almost runs out of waranty and buy new gear to have full waranty again.. So i change out my gear every 2 or 3 years..
With the Ursa and Studio Camera 4K beining the only 12G camera in the market right now.. Consider if you are upgrading to 1 of these cameras within 3 years ;)

And Yes NAB is justy 1 month away.. Maybe there will be more 12G / 4K enabled cameras with decent 4K output.. But we have to wait and see on that one..

Also check this topic From this post Of Tom and downwards.. ;) viewtopic.php?f=4&t=57019#p327675
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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Larry Masters

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostFri Mar 10, 2017 12:40 pm

Yeah my last comment was maybe I should have ordered the 6G vs 12G :D

The 40X40 arrived yesterday, haven't opened so I could send back and get eh 6G version.
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Tom_Bassford

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostFri Mar 10, 2017 1:08 pm

What's the actual point of any of this? Live streaming? Broadcast TV?
In all honesty there is not a single market that is going to be 12g in the foreseeable future. 99% of current broadcast isn't even 3G.

I'd really not worry about 12g over even 6g. Get a system which can do 1080i and 3G and it will make you money for the next 5 years. By which point we might have more idea if 4k is actually going to be a thing or not. (Broadcasters are talking about skipping 4k and going directly to superhivison 8k 120fps! )

I'd downgrade the router to 6g and get a 2me 6g ATEM with the change.



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Larry Masters

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostMon Mar 13, 2017 10:26 am

Tom_Bassford wrote:I'd downgrade the router to 6g and get a 2me 6g ATEM with the change.


Sent the 12g Videohub back on Friday, 6g versions of the VideoHub and ATEM 2 M/E on the way :o

Will be returning the ATEM TV Studio HD today since I no longer need it.
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Tom_Bassford

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostMon Mar 13, 2017 11:29 am

fun :)
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Larry Masters

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostSat Mar 18, 2017 1:46 am

I have most of my kit together now. Still waiting on a couple back panel parts, should have them on Monday then I will post photos from the back of the unit.

Here are a few images of the MD converters attached to a sliding shelf in the bottom of one of the cases.

IMG_9631.jpg
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IMG_9633.jpg
IMG_9633.jpg (365.88 KiB) Viewed 416 times


And a full front photo of the kit.

IMG_9650.jpg
IMG_9650.jpg (339.71 KiB) Viewed 416 times


Now I just need to decide on which ATEM panel I will be purchasing.
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MambaFiber.com

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostSat Mar 18, 2017 2:26 am

nice build...what kind of stuff will it do? were you with Cross Creek?
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Xtreemtec

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostSat Mar 18, 2017 7:18 am

What sliding monitor is that?? I like it!! Searching for a while now for a solution.
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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Tom_Bassford

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostSat Mar 18, 2017 9:30 am

I'd be concerned about heat with everything racked like that.

Check the heat flow direction of the Hyperdecks and the Atem. If the fans are blowing in opposing directions you will cycle heat round and round and cook everything.

I'd put your Mac mini in another case with a dedicated monitor giving you space for a 1u fan intake at the front of your case, I'd put the fan between the atem and the router. I'd add a 3u exhaust fan to the rear at the top behind the Hyperdecks.




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Larry Masters

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostSat Mar 18, 2017 3:00 pm

Xtreemtec wrote:What sliding monitor is that?? I like it!! Searching for a while now for a solution.


This is the monitor http://lilliputweb.net/rm-1730s.html I bought it from this reseller on EBay http://www.ebay.com/usr/carmate1?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

B&H also has it, but my offer was about $200 less than they sell it for. It shipped directly from Lilliput to me.

I also bought this 4K monitor http://lilliputweb.net/bm230-4k.html from the same reseller on eBay and saved about $200 on it too.
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Larry Masters

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostSat Mar 18, 2017 3:09 pm

One thing to keep in mind, the sliding monitor is 20" deep. I had to use a total of 8 1/2' nylon spacers, 4 on the front and 4 on the back to get this to work in my SKB case. I am able to put the covers on the cases with this spacing, tried using a 1" spacers on the back and it pushed the unit out too far forward to close properly.

IMG_9550.jpg
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Last edited by Larry Masters on Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Larry Masters

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostSat Mar 18, 2017 3:19 pm

Tom_Bassford wrote:I'd be concerned about heat with everything racked like that.


Tom,

This is the rack fan I am using. It seems to be circulating the air out of the rack properly.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... Panel.html

The fan has a temperature sensor and the speed of the fan is regulated by it. This fan is very quiet too.

I have not used this kit in production yet so really don't know what the heat will be like, I will be running more trial tests before putting it into full production. I also added thermometer to each case. so I can monitor the hear buildup and make changes as needed before using it in real life scenario. You can see attached to the VideoHub in the bottom case and the wireless mic receiver in the top case.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01H1RDJOI/
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Larry Masters

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostSat Mar 18, 2017 3:20 pm

MambaFiber.com wrote:nice build...what kind of stuff will it do? were you with Cross Creek?


No, I am just starting out. I have taken advice from others on this forum to get an idea of what the kit needed.

Thanks everyone!
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Scott Smith

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostMon Mar 20, 2017 3:39 pm

My setup look very similar . ..
Image

;)

(EDIT: For the record, that is a pic i found online, and not my actual equipment. It was a joke. Also for the record, i am not saying my setup is much better. : ) )
Last edited by Scott Smith on Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BMD Stuff I use: ATEM 2-M/E, 4 x ATEM PS 4K, Broadcast Videohub, 6 Hyperdeck Pros, 4 Hyperdeck Shuttles, Multidock, Smartscope Duo, Smartview, Intensity Extreme, Decklink Studio, and lots of Miniconverters and Open Gear Converters.
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Larry Masters

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostMon Mar 20, 2017 5:18 pm

Scott Smith wrote:My setup look very similar . ..
;)


Scott,

That looks scary :o

I just received the rest of the things I needed to complete the kits today. I will post updates when I am done. I did move some things around and have 3 cases now, 2 8u and 1 6u. It is coming together.
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MambaFiber.com

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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostMon Mar 20, 2017 11:18 pm

we've all been there... :roll:

20160411_124707.jpg
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Re: VideoHub / Switcher Rack setup

PostTue Mar 21, 2017 7:15 pm

You should consider adding HDMI Outputs from the Decimators. If I followed correctly, you have opted for the 2ME switcher. If this is correct, consider adding the 6x aux to the router. Then if you route your cams to the auxes, you automatically have program audio embedded. Audio and audio monitoring is a weak link in this layout. You've dropped the MV, so add those router outputs to your IO panel. You may wish to get a DMON4s for your camera op. Route the 4 cams to this unit, set a monitor in front of your cam op, and they have all they need to point the cameras.

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