Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

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Howard L Hughes

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Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostWed May 10, 2017 1:39 pm

As stated by BM, the pocket cam size and current technology is what is limiting Future progression of the BMPCC. However (in my opinion) the BMCC can merge with the BMPCC to create a more compact BMCC while expanding the BMPCC. These are just some of my ideas.

1. Keep SD cards: the technology (speed & capacity) of SD cards are always being pushed and are great. I can fit 12 SD cards in a case in my pocket. This is great for me when working on a shoot. A bunch of 128GB equals 1.5TB in my pocket.
2. Keep small screen from BMPCC: yes its small but it is perfect for a pocket style. It is clear and sharp. Uses low amount of energy for longer use. Touch screen is not needed so for me it is perfect.
3. Keep sensor size Please: I never knew I would love super 16 until I used it. It gives a great Classic look. You still have great DOF and wide angle shots (Dependent on your lenses).
4. 2.5 K or 3k: This would be great feature to add without competing with the Ursa Line up.
5. 14-15 Stops (dynamic Range): OMG
6. Sensor : the Sensor in the Mini would be a dream but understandable if not achievable.
7. Battery: I would love Sony Np batteries but as long as there are options to power externally I’m fine.
8. Design: a smaller BMCC (may 1/3 or ¼ smaller) with a new BMPCC layout.
9. Pocket Name: look I love how small this cam is but to be honest I never put it in my pocket. The initial purpose is not what it was used for by users. I rig my pocket cam but what is great I can take it off the rig in seconds and start shooting b roll on a monopod. That’s why I love this Cam. If we can keep the essence of this Cam in a BMCC size would be great.
10. Grip: I love the grip. Please Keep in some form.
11. SDI: a must in my opinion. No more HDMI unless it’s the big HDMI (don’t know the type. Think it is A type)
12. Audio: I use an external Recorder but something better than the BMPCC audio is needed.

That’s All I have for now. Thank you for listening!!
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostWed May 10, 2017 2:55 pm

Sounds like a great little camera. If BM came out with it and it had the same image quality I would definitely get one. Maybe two.
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rick.lang

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Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostWed May 10, 2017 6:34 pm

And can we have the URSA Mini Pro's interchangeable mount base to support optional active PL, EF, MFT?

I'm serious, not trying to be sarcastic.


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Denny Smith

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostThu May 11, 2017 2:22 am

Good idea Rick! This camera is a nice idea/deream, but I think it would undercut the Ursa Mini sales, so not likely to happen. It looks like the UM ismthe new mid size camera, replacing the BMCC/BMPC line.
As BM stated, the BMPCC is the small formfactor camera, until upgrading it to 4K becomes viable. I am afraid 2.5K is dead. Oh why has BM abandoned us S16/2K shooters... :o

Any new camera coming to market today, unfortunately, has to be 4K to sell -- this is the unfortunate truth in today's chimerical camera market.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostFri May 12, 2017 2:25 am

I'm not sure, sounds very pessimistic. You can buy heaps of 4K camcorders with awful video look.

But there might be enough folks who appreciate cinematic quality in a small body. Why not make a small S-16 successor with 2.5 or 3K and proper OLPF? It would deliver awesome quality in 2K or HD and still be small and unobtrusive.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostFri May 12, 2017 3:13 pm

I agree Uli, I wish BM or Panasonic would build a smaller FS5 size camera, doesn't need to be a "DSLR" shape either, just a S16 sensor with good IQ. However, except for a very few of us "old guys/gals" there is not much :ugeek: demandmfor 2/3K sensors, the market is/has pushed to 4K sensors, so the Pocket and Micro Cinema are the last of the 2K sensor cameras currently on the market. The next stop is 4K, weather we like it or not! :roll:
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Stefan Gofferje

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostSat May 13, 2017 10:58 am

I'd still plead for a UM(P) with the original BMCC sensor as an entry level camera for amateur filmmakers, small business and alike. Seriously, I don't see the need for 4(.6)k e.g. in wedding work. Lots of TV stations in Europe still only use SD(!) material, so they accept max. HD and mostly scale it down after editing. Particularly for news and current affairs formats. And with a good price it would be a great product to attract new customers to BMD and make them "addicts" :D.
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Alex Klutchevski

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostSat May 13, 2017 12:10 pm

Two versions of URSA micro 4k with native ASA800 and mft mount. One with full sized mft sensor and one with super 16 4k sensor, please. Or atleast one 4k with fullsized mft sensor with super 16 window option.
All with native SD cards. Allow to shoot raw 120fps in 1080p atleast. If the cards can't support writing at 4k raw, then add two SD card slots with simultaneously writing option as done before. Native Sony NP-F sized batteries would be great also. Built in ND filters. Form factor is the same as Ursa mini, but 1/2 or 1/3 smaller.

Pocket and micro are great, but we need a more proffessional friendly device. I love them, but I am bored with those clunky buttons and settings menu. Bored with those small batteries. I want atleast one XLR on camera. I want a proffessional super 16 Camera from Blackmagic. If that magic camera Will happen, I will buy it even at near the price the Ursa mini 4k.
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Greg Lee

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostSat May 13, 2017 4:15 pm

Yeah, I think an URSA Micro is the only way a smallish camera comes out of Blackmagic again.

Who knows if the tech for a smallish 4K cam is actually not there yet, or if Blackmagic just doesn't want to cannibalize their flagship 4.6K sales. I think, with RED coming out with an 8K camera, we'll see a smaller Blackmagic cam only when the Mini goes up to 6K or beyond. Then, a 4K smaller camera will be different enough from the 6K to keep the products totally distinct.
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GregGreenhaw

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostSat May 13, 2017 4:25 pm

The camera would not even need a screen and you could record to the video assist. They obviously have a new raw format over sdi as displayed in their new ssd recorder for the ursa.

Should really use the ursa sensor and the interchangeable mount.

Allow the video assist or blue tooth control.

Keep the canon battery support plus an aux power in.
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Alex Klutchevski

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostSat May 13, 2017 7:18 pm

GregGreenhaw wrote:The camera would not even need a screen and you could record to the video assist. They obviously have a new raw format over sdi as displayed in their new ssd recorder for the ursa.

Should really use the ursa sensor and the interchangeable mount.

Allow the video assist or blue tooth control.

Keep the canon battery support plus an aux power in.


No no no. Only in camera 12 bit raw or better. Also I don't like how it works now with micro + VA. Instead of controlling the cam through the touch screen, we need to press those tiny buttons on micro 100 times to change settings. So I want exactly a ursa micro with build in touch screen or even better small evf alongside with old school screen for settings like on ursa mini pro.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostSat May 13, 2017 9:35 pm

Alex Klutchevski wrote:
GregGreenhaw wrote:The camera would not even need a screen and you could record to the video assist. They obviously have a new raw format over sdi as displayed in their new ssd recorder for the ursa.

Should really use the ursa sensor and the interchangeable mount.

Allow the video assist or blue tooth control.

Keep the canon battery support plus an aux power in.


No no no. Only in camera 12 bit raw or better. Also I don't like how it works now with micro + VA. Instead of controlling the cam through the touch screen, we need to press those tiny buttons on micro 100 times to change settings. So I want exactly a ursa micro with build in touch screen or even better small evf alongside with old school screen for settings like on ursa mini pro.


I agree, unless BM can do a better job of integrating the VA with their cameras, I would rather see an on camera touch screen to setup the camera. But, if they could completely control the camera from the VA, then I would be perfectly fine with no on camera screen.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostSat May 13, 2017 11:36 pm

Everybody has their perfect touch screen already!
Why not move control completely to smartphones?
We could have the excellent menu system of the bigger cameras while keeping the new Pocket small and cheap. Look at what Zhiyun is doing with their gimbals.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostSun May 14, 2017 12:29 am

Uli good idea! Why not create a phone interface for the VAs? Why not make wireless control a feature of all recording products?
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Leon Benzakein

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostSun May 14, 2017 1:20 am

Can it be possible to use a USB Bluetooth dongle(with an adapter) in the mini USB I/O on the BMD devices?(VA, BMPCC,BMMCC, BMMSC)

https://www.newegg.com/Bluetooth-Adapte ... ory/ID-295

Can firmware be written so that the phone will communicate with the BMD device via Bluetooth?

I believe that Sound Devices does this for the Wingman App.

https://www.sounddevices.com/news/sound ... uts-at-ibc
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Denny Smith

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostSun May 14, 2017 3:09 am

First, the USB port is wired to a processor board that can only interact with the BM Udater firmware on a computer, so no two way comes for camera control or a Bluetooth dongle, as the port is also not powered, which a Bluetooth dongle would require. So this is a non starter.

Next, BM has stated, no new cameras with less than 4K resolution, so no cutdown 4.6K sensors either, or cameras with less than 4K. BM is looking for the next generation small 4K sensor for their next small size camera.

Meanwhile, mostmof these requests can be filled now with one of the Ursa Mini models, all will shoot a widowed HD,mthe 4.6 several widowed options, including 2K, or you could buy a used Bolex D16 for $3500. :roll:
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Leon Benzakein

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostSun May 14, 2017 5:13 am

Denny Smith wrote:First, the USB port is wired to a processor board that can only interact with the BM Udater firmware on a computer, so no two way comes for camera control or a Bluetooth dongle, as the port is also not powered, which a Bluetooth dongle would require. So this is a non starter.

Next, BM has stated, no new cameras with less than 4K resolution, so no cutdown 4.6K sensors either, or cameras with less than 4K. BM is looking for the next generation small 4K sensor for their next small size camera.

Meanwhile, mostmof these requests can be filled now with one of the Ursa Mini models, all will shoot a widowed HD,mthe 4.6 several widowed options, including 2K, or you could buy a used Bolex D16 for $3500. :roll:


As they say in the old country " Nou daar's 'n ding".
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Denny Smith

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostSun May 14, 2017 5:28 am

No, no there is not, kep un dinging :!:
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Thomas Thiele

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostMon May 15, 2017 5:59 pm

Denny Smith wrote:just a S16 sensor with good IQ.


Why not MFT? If is uses MFT-Lenses already? -> More wide angle.

Denny Smith wrote:The next stop is 4K, weather we like it or not!


You can easely convert it down during primary color grading in resolve. Even with enough flesh for reframing.
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Jaco Spies

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostMon May 15, 2017 7:14 pm

Leon Benzakein wrote:
As they say in the old country " Nou daar's 'n ding".


"Jou lekker ding"

"Jou ma se dinges"

"Jou sleg ding"

So many uses, so little time..

Denny Smith wrote:shoot a widowed HD


Denny Smith wrote:several widowed options


Sounds interesting Denny.
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Leon Benzakein

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostMon May 15, 2017 7:35 pm

Jaco Spies wrote:"Jou lekker ding"

"Jou ma se dinges"

"Jou sleg ding"

So many uses, so little time..


"Ding, Dong, the Witch is dead"




Jy moet make time, cos watch my takie here comes a spark.

Why is no-one on this thread showing the BM Micro Cinema Camera some love and respect? :?: :idea:
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Denny Smith

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostWed May 17, 2017 2:46 am

Jaco, na' Bad ding -- now dats som ding! Very good reply sir, by the way.

Leon, we are :!: the Micro is a great little camera, has the S16'sensor, MFT mount for lenses, which takes a nice PL afspter for shooting S16 lenses, like the Super Speeds. I have both models, na dats som ding! :roll:
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rick.lang

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostWed May 17, 2017 4:10 am

Should I be watching Airplane! again so I can understand this stuff.


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Greg Lee

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostWed May 17, 2017 5:21 am

I would have loved to buy the Micro, but it's just so aggressively anti-user-friendly in its design, I just can't do it. If the horribly awkward buttons could have been bypassed by using the touch screen on the Video Assist, I would've been a buyer.
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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostWed May 17, 2017 5:55 am

Yes, we all wished the VA could link to the Micro to do this. But akim and Phil's Micro remotes are almost as good.

Rick, just pronounce the phrases out loud, think a cross between a US southern accent and the Caribbean islands. Da it man!
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David Peterson

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostWed May 17, 2017 9:59 am

An URSA Mini Pro with the BMCC MFT sensor/mount which is priced at say US$2K (so much higher than the Micro/Pocket, but cheaper than the other URSA Mini cameras) I'd drool over buying.
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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostWed May 17, 2017 6:27 pm

True David, but BM has already stated any new camera they make, will need to be at least a 4K sensor, so the BMCC 2.5K sensor is "end of life", not coming back in a new camera body. However, a Ursa Micro with 4K (with a 2K window option, and a MFT mount would fill the bill. Meanwhile, the Ursa Mini 4.6 shooting in a 2K window is our olnly current option, for the next year at least.

It will be interesting to see what the new Panasonic camera announced at NAB will pan out to be, 30 some days and counting....
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Jaco Spies

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostThu May 18, 2017 10:39 am

rick.lang wrote:Should I be watching Airplane! again so I can understand this stuff.


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This might help:



However severely sanitized.
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Leon Benzakein

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostThu May 18, 2017 2:38 pm

Jaco Spies wrote:
rick.lang wrote:Should I be watching Airplane! again so I can understand this stuff.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



This might help:



However severely sanitized.


:lol: :roll:
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostThu May 18, 2017 4:41 pm

Denny Smith wrote:True David, but BM has already stated any new camera they make, will need to be at least a 4K sensor...


Denny, would you happen to remember where BM stated this?
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Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostThu May 18, 2017 5:35 pm

Thanks, Leon. Ah, youth! My brain is starting to work just like my camera. The brain's 'sensor' can record off-speed at 120 fps, but then memory 'playback' is at 30 fps so I can catch the audio (and the dance moves)!


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Denny Smith

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostFri May 19, 2017 6:05 am

Gene Kochanowsky wrote:
Denny Smith wrote:True David, but BM has already stated any new camera they make, will need to be at least a 4K sensor...

Denny, would you happen to remember where BM stated this?


Gene it was in this thread, viewtopic.php?f=2&t=58574
pg 1 about half way down in a reply by John Paines, shows in an interview clip with BM employee Tim S. at NAB. The statement regarding the Pocket camera and that 4K was the next step for a update is at 5:20 in the interview.
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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostFri May 19, 2017 5:51 pm

Thanks Denny. If Sony can figure out how to make a UHD camera in a form factor the size of the RX100M5 and a6500 I can't help but think it won't be too long before BM comes out with something the same size of perhaps a bit larger. Certainly much smaller than the UMP.

I'm an old and feeble guy so I really like the small cameras.
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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostFri May 19, 2017 9:02 pm

Perhaps,but the Sony cameras do not record ProRes or Raw, and this is the limiting factor, as the less compressed the codec, the higher bitrate the sensor needs to be, and the more heat it generates.
BM could make a 4K camera like the Sony A6300 or a GH5, but why? Image resolution is more than UHD or 4K, it is also bit depth, and exposure latitude, and this is where BM is beating the Panny and Sony cameras for IQ, along with better recording codecs.
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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostSat May 20, 2017 1:34 am

Denny Smith wrote:BM could make a 4K camera like the Sony A6300 or a GH5, but why?

I'm not asking BM to make a 4K camera or even a 2.5K camera like Sony or Panasonic. Those companies already make those cameras, and they are nice cameras. When I use a VA4K with my RX100M5 or a6500 I get 14 stops of dynamic range, 422 10 bit and prores. And the color science approaches my PCC or MCC but not quite. I don't get 422 12 bit raw, but my understanding is that is coming in the GH5.

So I guess my point is that what BM has to sell in terms of their cameras is not necessarily their resolution or bit rate or even codecs, but their color science. Because it looks like the lower end cameras are catching up on their resolution, bit rate and raw output. Keep in mind that many of them have larger sensors than UHD and down res their images for a better picture.

So if color science is not only what separates BM from the lower end pack, it soon could be.
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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostSat May 20, 2017 4:04 am

Gene Kochanowsky wrote:
Denny Smith wrote:BM could make a 4K camera like the Sony A6300 or a GH5, but why?

I'm not asking BM to make a 4K camera or even a 2.5K camera like Sony or Panasonic. Those companies already make those cameras, and they are nice cameras. When I use a VA4K with my RX100M5 or a6500 I get 14 stops of dynamic range, 422 10 bit and prores. And the color science approaches my PCC or MCC but not quite. I don't get 422 12 bit raw, but my understanding is that is coming in the GH5.

So I guess my point is that what BM has to sell in terms of their cameras is not necessarily their resolution or bit rate or even codecs, but their color science. Because it looks like the lower end cameras are catching up on their resolution, bit rate and raw output. Keep in mind that many of them have larger sensors than UHD and down res their images for a better picture.

So if color science is not only what separates BM from the lower end pack, it soon could be.



I think we're a long way from consumer cameras like the Gh5 doing 12 bit RAW.

It's the first I've heard that they're doing that in the GH 5. You sure about that ?

People keep using this other brand camera that can't even do 4k for it's colour science too. That seems to count for a lot.

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rick.lang

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostSat May 20, 2017 4:07 am

... a subtle reference to ARRI.


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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostSat May 20, 2017 7:03 am

John Brawley wrote:
It's the first I've heard that they're doing that in the GH 5. You sure about that ?



John, granted it's just a rumor

http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-gh5-will-re ... late-2017/
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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostSat May 20, 2017 7:16 am

Gene Kochanowsky wrote:
John Brawley wrote:
It's the first I've heard that they're doing that in the GH 5. You sure about that ?



John, granted it's just a rumor

http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-gh5-will-re ... late-2017/



Gene. That's a rumour site. The rumour you linked doesn't even mention 12bit or RAW.

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostSat May 20, 2017 5:25 pm

Gene Kochanowsky wrote:
Denny Smith wrote:BM could make a 4K camera like the Sony A6300 or a GH5, but why?

When I use a VA4K with my RX100M5 or a6500 I get 14 stops of dynamic range, 422 10 bit and prores.


How on Earth are you getting 14 stops out of your RX100m5? I'd love to know, I have one. Shooting S-Log2 seems to give me 11-12 at best...
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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostSun May 21, 2017 10:00 pm

Greg Lee wrote:
Gene Kochanowsky wrote:
Denny Smith wrote:BM could make a 4K camera like the Sony A6300 or a GH5, but why?

When I use a VA4K with my RX100M5 or a6500 I get 14 stops of dynamic range, 422 10 bit and prores.


How on Earth are you getting 14 stops out of your RX100m5? I'd love to know, I have one. Shooting S-Log2 seems to give me 11-12 at best...


That was a figure based off a spec I read someplace. Maybe I got the RX100M5 confused with the a6500. So I don't really know, but I am gonna try to measure the range produced by the combination of the VA4K and RX100M5.
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John Brawley

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostMon May 22, 2017 12:09 am

Gene Kochanowsky wrote:
That was a figure based off a spec I read someplace.


Gene, you should know better than to just sprout stuff like this as fact. Not to be too blunt, but the claims you made about RAW and 12 bit claims weren't right either.

Good luck with measuring DR. No one has yet worked out a way to do it that is agreeable to all. Make sure you document how you do it.

JB
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Uli Plank

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostMon May 22, 2017 3:36 am

IMHO the best way to measure it is shooting a Xyla 21 from DSC.
Unfortunately that thing is expensive and needs a pitch black studio.
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Tomas Stacewicz

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostMon May 22, 2017 7:19 am

John Brawley wrote:Not to be too blunt, but the claims you made about RAW and 12 bit [in the GH5] claims weren't right either.


A few years ago, there were rumors circulating that 12-bit RAW would be implemented into the GH4 with a firmware update. That never happened. Instead V-Log arrived.
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John Brawley

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostMon May 22, 2017 10:09 am

Uli Plank wrote:IMHO the best way to measure it is shooting a Xyla 21 from DSC.
Unfortunately that thing is expensive and needs a pitch black studio.


Yes.

It needs to be done properly. Not only that, but you'll still get differences in opinion on what's acceptable noise. Some will see 14 stops and some will see 12.

DR is a subjective measure. One mans noise is another mans shadow range.

I personally think that noise should also be evealuted in MOTION. Your perception of noise changes from a still frame to one that's moving but no one ever shoots DR charts like that either.

JB
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostMon May 22, 2017 1:04 pm

John Brawley wrote:
Gene Kochanowsky wrote:
That was a figure based off a spec I read someplace.


Gene, you should know better than to just sprout stuff like this as fact. Not to be too blunt, but the claims you made about RAW and 12 bit claims weren't right either.

Good luck with measuring DR. No one has yet worked out a way to do it that is agreeable to all. Make sure you document how you do it.

JB


John, I agree with you. I should qualify statements I make if I do not have complete knowledge.
I did state that the GH5 info was a rumor.

Also full disclosure, I make mistakes. I try to acknowledge them when they become known to me.

Thanks for your vigilance.

I am very grateful that you would post here with all of us. You are a great asset and I have learned a lot, lot, lot from you. Thanks for sharing, thanks for your patience.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostTue May 23, 2017 12:28 am

John Brawley wrote:
Uli Plank wrote:IMHO the best way to measure it is shooting a Xyla 21 from DSC.
Unfortunately that thing is expensive and needs a pitch black studio.


Yes.

It needs to be done properly. Not only that, but you'll still get differences in opinion on what's acceptable noise. Some will see 14 stops and some will see 12.

DR is a subjective measure. One mans noise is another mans shadow range.

I personally think that noise should also be evealuted in MOTION. Your perception of noise changes from a still frame to one that's moving but no one ever shoots DR charts like that either.

JB


John, What do you think of this experimental setup? It will be crude but I think it will be effective.

1. Using the following set of nd filters construct a test apparatus similar to the Xyla21
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... y_Gel.html
2. Since I'll be using gel ND filters the chart will be illuminated from behind using a light constructed from one of these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DX ... UTF8&psc=1
3. Aluminum foil painted black will be used for the opaque parts of the apparatus.
4. I will setup the apparatus so that it will flip up and reveal the light so an image can be taken of the light intensities illuminating the gels.
5. Then an image will be taken of the apparatus back illuminated.
6. Steps 4 and 5 will be repeated a dozen times or so to take a statistical sample to examine variation in light values over the course of the test.
7. I will use a program that will allow me to review the frames and measure light intensities in bit values. (Not sure if Resolve has this functionality)
8. All this will be recorded in a spreadsheet for analysis.
9. Maybe I'll write up a paper and post it on the board.

If light uniformity is in question I could construct a slit in the light and move it across the apparatus to use the same light source for all stops.
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Johan Cramer

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostTue May 23, 2017 1:22 pm

Gene Kochanowsky wrote:When I use a VA4K with my RX100M5 or a6500 I get 14 stops of dynamic range, 422 10 bit and prores.

No, you only get 8bit wrapped in 10bit ProRes. And only 12.4 stops dynamic range with the RX100V according to DxOLabs: https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare ... _1128_1127
And that dynamic range will only be preserved when you record in Slog for which 8bit doesn't provide sufficient color depth. So your choice will be either an 8bit Rec709 image with 8-10 stops dynamic range, or an 12/14 stops Log image recorded in 8bit which after Rec709 transformation (with a LUT or colorspace transformation function) will result in a 7bit image at best, with visible tearing in the histogram and banding in color gradients.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostTue May 23, 2017 1:42 pm

Johan Cramer wrote:
Gene Kochanowsky wrote:When I use a VA4K with my RX100M5 or a6500 I get 14 stops of dynamic range, 422 10 bit and prores.

No, you only get 8bit wrapped in 10bit ProRes. And only 12.4 stops dynamic range with the RX100V according to DxOLabs: https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare ... _1128_1127
And that dynamic range will only be preserved when you record in Slog for which 8bit doesn't provide sufficient color depth. So your choice will be either an 8bit Rec709 image with 8-10 stops dynamic range, or an 12/14 stops Log image recorded in 8bit which after Rec709 transformation (with a LUT or colorspace transformation function) will result in a 7bit image at best, with visible tearing in the histogram and banding in color gradients.


According to the Sony specs, the RX100M5 and a6500 output 4:2:2 10 bit on their HDMI ports.
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Johan Cramer

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Re: Future Pocket Cam is a New Cinema Camera

PostTue May 23, 2017 2:43 pm

Gene Kochanowsky wrote:According to the Sony specs, the RX100M5 and a6500 output 4:2:2 10 bit on their HDMI ports.

No, they don't. No Sony consumer camera does. You're definitely mistaken.

EDIT: Here are Sony's official specs -
https://www.sony.com/electronics/interc ... ifications

"HDMI OUTPUT
3840 x 2160 (30p), 3840 x 2160 (25p), 3840 x 2160 (24p), 1920 x 1080 (60p), 1920 x 1080 (60i), 1920 x 1080 (50p), 1920 x 1080 (50i), 1920 x 1080 (24p), YCbCr 4:2:2 8bit / RGB 8bit"
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