Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the side.

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Terrence Wilkins

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Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the side.

PostMon Aug 22, 2016 3:38 pm

Here is a word of warning to ursa mini 4.6k owners; here is how easy it is to completely write off your camera.

After a small drop, the handle bent the metal inside taking off a chip of the internal pcb. (which according to black magic is un-repairable)

Take the handle off the side, using an extension arm or off completely, because if it drops and hits the right place you will kill your camera.


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Anatoly Mashanov

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostMon Aug 22, 2016 5:23 pm

1) You mean the chip in the row of similar chips just above and at right of the big black screw?
2) After you possibly removed the chip, does it power up? (DON'T power up before you remove the chip!)
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Terrence Wilkins

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostMon Aug 22, 2016 5:35 pm

I've already sent it in to black magic for repair, they said it was un-repairable. This is a warning to other users out there, if you drop the camera and it hits the side handle (in default position) it will self destruct. Happened to some one elses camera here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50383

This thing needs a cage
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Pavel Lavrov

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostMon Aug 22, 2016 6:59 pm

Terrence Wilkins wrote:This thing needs a cage

Maybe it needs better, more solid design/redesign?


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Francisco Rodriguez

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostMon Aug 22, 2016 8:05 pm

Terrence Wilkins wrote:I've already sent it in to black magic for repair, they said it was un-repairable. This is a warning to other users out there, if you drop the camera and it hits the side handle (in default position) it will self destruct. Happened to some one elses camera here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50383

This thing needs a cage


I thought you were the same guy when I saw your post today on BMCuser

I feel for you man.
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Anatoly Mashanov

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostTue Aug 23, 2016 2:28 am

The missing element is possibly the big fat ceramic capacitor. There are many such capacitors in parallel in any computer equipment (design rules state that there should be at least one capacitor per chip) and the single missing capacitor does not decide anything. So if the camera does not power on then it's possible that there is a crack of PCB or some broken chip on other side.
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Terrence Wilkins

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostTue Aug 23, 2016 9:19 am

To reiterate a point, the exact same thing happened to this guy viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50383

I'm talking about a drop less than 70cm this is something that could easily happen to any one, If you have this camera definitely invest in a cage system.
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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostWed Aug 24, 2016 3:58 pm

from Terrence Wilkins.

"So since BlackMagic couldn't fix it, I took it to an electrical engineer today and did a complete tear down.

http://imgur.com/a/u8qLt
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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostWed Aug 24, 2016 3:58 pm

Turns out the main component of the circuit board, (going to take a guess its the cpu? or something similar) Sits right under where the default position of where the handle gets attached. Meaning any knock to the handle (in default position) with just enough force will instantly break the camera."
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Michael McCaffrey

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostThu Aug 25, 2016 1:58 am

Yea this happened to my camera. I dont expect that people believe me when I say it took a soft fall onto the grass, but it did. But the handle hit the ground first. Cracked the case and the camera would not power on. Sent pics to BMD and they said it didnt make sense to send it in because the PCB was probably broken (so clearly they are aware of the potential for this), and any repair cost would be so high it would mean replacing the camera. After some pleading with BMD and some help here, they took the camera back and agreed to at least look at it. They said the internal components tested out fine and repaired the case for $300. The day I got the camera back I had many problems getting it to turn on. One out of 7-10 attempts turned on the camera. Then if it did come on, after 3 seconds it would turn itself off. Then back on, and off. It would cycle on and off 3 or 4 times before staying on. But then it would still turn off between 3-15mins, even if in the middle of recording. So now its back at BMD. Sadly, it does need a cage. Even a bump into a wall or a door with the handle could total the camera. If you leave the side handle on, get insurance or get a cage or both.
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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostThu Aug 25, 2016 3:52 am

This is total BS. This is a $5K camera, not a throw away go pro (which seem to be more robust BTW). I'm sitting here in location on the first shoot with my 4.6K and we've already had a helicoil break from a couple hours of handheld work with a shogun mounted to it.

It's one thing to sacrifice build quality for price, it's another thing to fail to support your users. Why won't they just replace your PCB? It can't cost them the whole price of the camera. Surely there is some value in what is left. To fail to support repairs on even a paid basis on a camera that is essentially new makes this a very expensive, disposable toy. How can Cannon ship a dozen DSLR's under the price of the 4.6K and easily offer repairs while BM just tells customers 'shrug, sorry, buy a new one'.
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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostThu Aug 25, 2016 4:57 am

The new Canon DSLR is now $3500, nothing is inexpensive anymore! But a 5K camera should be repairable. Even Panasonic did repairs on the AF100, another $4K camera in its day. But the old formula in camera equipment being used professionally was, "if the repair exceeds 1/2 of the original cost, then you replaced it with a new unit". Same holds true here, unfortunately.
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Lee Jackson

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostMon Aug 29, 2016 2:45 pm

Kinda makes the heft and extra weight of the big ursa a lot easier to swallow.
At least it is for me after hearing of the many issues with the mini.
The big ursa is built like a tank..... two tanks.

I think I can win a shot put competition after shooting with this camera.
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Que Thompson

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostMon Aug 29, 2016 6:56 pm

i think this puts me out of the ursa mini market. it's too large of an investment to lose so easily.
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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostMon Aug 29, 2016 8:31 pm

Que, a thousand people are enjoying the URSA Mini so don't be too concerned about a couple of accidents. Insurance brings peace of mind.


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Tony Uhlin

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostMon Aug 29, 2016 9:30 pm

rick.lang wrote:Que, a thousand people are enjoying the URSA Mini so don't be too concerned about a couple of accidents. Insurance brings peace of mind.


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+1
well said, Rick.
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Michael McCaffrey

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostFri Sep 02, 2016 4:24 am

Que Thompson wrote:i think this puts me out of the ursa mini market. it's too large of an investment to lose so easily.


My employer was considering an UM4.6k as well until this happened. The fact it broke with such a slight fall (he saw it happen), and combined with Blackmagic's initial unwillingness to do a repair for me turned him off for good.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostFri Sep 02, 2016 12:48 pm

Tell him to get an URSA Major, they are really massive …

On a more serious note: I don't know a camera of the same size, weight and prize that would take it harder than this one. Sure, an Arri, maybe a Red might accept harder knocks. But if you go for Ursa Mini, just take the handle off, put it on a nice shoulder rig or any other support and enjoy good pictures for a great price!
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Tristan Pemberton

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostSat Sep 03, 2016 1:15 pm

Moral of the story... don't drop your camera. Just don't.
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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostFri Sep 09, 2016 4:10 am

I just recently watched my camera slip off a Pelican case and roll twenty feet down a rocky hillside until it came to a stop on a ledge. All I could do was watch in horror, surely That camera was toast I thought. But to my amazement, the camera had suffered barely a scratch, and worked perfectly! The saving grace was the Vocas 435 matte box and my DIY Arca Swiss top and bottom rails. The EVF got a couple of scratches, but also still worked fine! They acted as a roll cage and protected the camera. I had no handles attached anywhere. I feel the outcome would have been different if I had any handles attached. That side mounting point on the camera seems especially vunerable.

Below is a frame grab from a scene I was shooting that was near the location where my camera took a twenty foot tumble: This camera is tougher than one might think, but it does have an Achilles Heel in the form of that side handle mounting point, I was very lucky!
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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostFri Sep 09, 2016 2:25 pm

The camera image is fantastic and really is not that difficult to protect those possible "weak joints"
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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostFri Sep 09, 2016 2:27 pm

In this here, takes care of the most painful of all.
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Benton Collins

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostFri Sep 09, 2016 2:53 pm

Terrence Wilkins wrote:Here is a word of warning to ursa mini 4.6k owners; here is how easy it is to completely write off your camera.

After a small drop, the handle bent the metal inside taking off a chip of the internal pcb. (which according to black magic is un-repairable)

Take the handle off the side, using an extension arm or off completely, because if it drops and hits the right place you will kill your camera.

Image


I would bet that this mounting point could be strengthened by adding epoxy putty in the vacant areas that surrounds this point. It looks like there just isn't enough material to fully support this area if it gets a bump when the handle is attached.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostFri Sep 09, 2016 5:12 pm

I think epoxy would just pop out in a impact. Epoxy by itself is not structural.
DS
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Benton Collins

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostFri Sep 09, 2016 5:16 pm

Denny Smith wrote:I think k epoxy would just pop out in a impact. Epoxy by itself is not structural.
DS

There is structural epoxy putty available for plumbing and other metal repairs. It's quite different that just epoxy glue.
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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostFri Sep 09, 2016 5:24 pm

Yes I know, I have used fiber re-enforced epoxy in marine applications. But when epoxy gets exposed to heat, it softens and looses its structural properties, as well as its bond. The inside of the UM would be a very warm place for epoxy. But, given the right type, it might work. I think the partial cage solutions shown above look stronger, and solves the problem nicely.
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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostSat Sep 10, 2016 9:12 am

Looking how it is damaged, it is obvious that the mechanical design of that part is less than perfect.

Damage.png
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A bigger rosette plate outside the camera would provide plenty of additional strength, it would be quite easy fix and I think sufficient.

Simplest DIY solution probably would be to put indicated size 1.5 mm duraluminium plate between the camera and rosette plate.

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I have seen only pictures of the camera, so can not really say, probably better if it would be made to fit, not just a plate, so maybe not quite DIY and why would one do something like that for a new camera... well I would after seeing this thread if I had the camera and if no-one provides a better solution, maybe BMD should.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostSat Sep 10, 2016 1:38 pm

Well, this is not the pocket and I don't see myself working a lot with just the handgrip on the camera. Hard to keep it stable for any extended period.
I'd foresee using it on the shoulder or on the tripod, just taking that grip off the side.
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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostThu Oct 19, 2017 3:09 am

Terrence Wilkins wrote:Here is a word of warning to ursa mini 4.6k owners; here is how easy it is to completely write off your camera.

After a small drop, the handle bent the metal inside taking off a chip of the internal pcb. (which according to black magic is un-repairable)

Take the handle off the side, using an extension arm or off completely, because if it drops and hits the right place you will kill your camera.


Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


You wouldn't happen to still have the bricked camera, would you? I'd be interested in buying it for parts...
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Krzysztof Gluszek

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostFri Oct 20, 2017 6:54 pm

Oh my... very sorry about your camera...

The first time i see the inside of UM, what do you think about moisture/rain getting through the upper vents to the heatsink? Are the internal circuits exposed to the water or there is a protection of any sort?

Do you think that such a smallrig side plate would protect the camera from such a damage?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SmallRig-1854- ... +ursa+mini


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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostMon Oct 23, 2017 3:27 pm

This looks like a solution yes.. As this smallrig plate covers most of the side panel.. When in impact the plate will hit the whole side.. And not focus all energy on the roset..

So the chance of hitting the roset mount to break and kill the PCB is much less likely..

Still it is preferred to not drop the camera right ;)
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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostThu Nov 09, 2017 6:02 pm

I just bought this Smallrig side plate for my Ursa Mini Pro and installed it today. It doesn't seem to want to sit straight on the side of the camera. I mean the teeth in the rosette on the plate don't seem to line up correctly with the rosette on the camera to allow the plate to install without either tipping forward or rearward. Is something wrong with my plate? Also the Allen wrench that came with the plate doesn't fit well, its too loose. I used a different Allen wrench out of my toolbox that fit snugly into the Allen head of the bolt. I think this was an issue of metric vs. English.

But my main concern is that the plate doesn't sit level on the side of the camera. Are they all like this?
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Denny Smith

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostThu Nov 09, 2017 6:35 pm

I would send it back! Typical poor quality control.
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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostFri Nov 10, 2017 12:00 pm

A side note on the side plate: I bought this SmallRig plate through ebay and requested to return it to the seller cinemarig. They/he/she returned all of the money I spent for the plate into my paypal account and said I did not have to send the plate back, that I can keep it as a gift. I just want to give them credit for good customer service, beyond what I expected (I expected a hassle). I like the basic design of the plate, especially the built in cold shoe, I just didn't like it to be crooked when attached to the camera. I believe that it is completely functional, just not "pretty", but maybe its my head that is crooked. Also, I don't want to start a flood of returned products for them, I only want to say that they treated me well.
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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostFri Nov 10, 2017 2:55 pm

Mike Proulx wrote:A side note on the side plate: I bought this SmallRig plate through ebay and requested to return it to the seller cinemarig. They/he/she returned all of the money I spent for the plate into my paypal account and said I did not have to send the plate back, that I can keep it as a gift. I just want to give them credit for good customer service, beyond what I expected (I expected a hassle). I like the basic design of the plate, especially the built in cold shoe, I just didn't like it to be crooked when attached to the camera. I believe that it is completely functional, just not "pretty", but maybe its my head that is crooked. Also, I don't want to start a flood of returned products for them, I only want to say that they treated me well.
Mike


Hey mike, I️ don’t have this plate but wondering if the rosette mount could be turned to align the teeth better by removing the 4 screws and rotating the rosette. It’s what I️ would try if I️ saw the teeth pattern being slightly different around each of the 4 screws. Might be something to look at.

Mitch


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Krzysztof Gluszek

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostFri Nov 10, 2017 11:16 pm

Recently i have bought this smallrig sideplate for um46k and it fits like a charm.
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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostFri Nov 10, 2017 11:36 pm

Just to add here as a general note on SmallRig from personal experience: I’ve not had a problem with them or their products. At first I stuck with simple items like cold shoe adapters, plates, screws, etc., for years without issue. I recently preordered their Zacuto/Movcam/Shape-lookalike shoulder mount kit — I guess intended for FS7-like cameras — for my DVX200, along with a dog bone and wooden grip. Work lovely. I even left a nice review on their website. So, from their little bits to their more complex products, plus generally dealing with their sales/support people asking persnickety questions, over the years I haven’t had a problem with SmallRig.
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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostFri Nov 10, 2017 11:51 pm

yes, Mitch, I was going to try loosening the rosette screws on both the camera and the plate to see it there was any "play" and maybe be able to turn one or the other or both enough to get the plate to straighten up. But maybe, as you suggested, it will work if I turn the whole rosette a notch or two. Its not way far off, but its definitely not straightly lined up, as in the pictures I've seen on their website. I will get to it tonight or tomorrow.

I don't want to be a whiner, I just want life to be perfect, lol. Anyhow, I can't complain now, after what they did for me.
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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostSat Nov 11, 2017 6:12 pm

SmallRig has gotten better, but still has QA issues from one batch to another, and their screws are not always hardened alloy or stainless steel, and can tweak if you are not careful. Never has an issue with Wooden Camera accessories, for me that difference counts.

That said, the SmallRig’s new low profile monitor bracket looks interesting.... :roll:
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Jason R. Johnston

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostSat Nov 11, 2017 7:56 pm

Well, yeah, Wooden Camera. If SmallRig made their version of Wooden Camera’s D-Box, I wouldn’t even look at it. There are some things (juice, communication, and recording media) you don’t ever go cheap on. Not that there isn’t expensive junk out there, of course, but generally you do ‘get what you pay for’. (Note: also never had a problem with WC, and their support and sales teams are lovely.)

I was happy when the SR shoulder mount fit snug with my genuine Sony VCT-14 plate. Okay, cool. But, electronic stuff? Nope. You go to Wooden Camera. If I do wind up going with an Ursa Mini Pro by the end of the year, I’ll also be investing in their D and C boxes. I was considering the SR side plate for UMP, but now I’m not so sure.
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Mike Proulx

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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostSat Nov 11, 2017 10:04 pm

well, I'm not able to get the plate to align the way I think it should with the top of the plate parallel with the top of the camera and the slanted edge parallel with the angled edge of the camera near the rear SDI connectors or the front edge near the front SDI. Its close but it still looks "off" to me. It is tightly attached and secure, so no problems there, its just the cosmetic fit that bothers me. I'm going to live with it, especially considering what I paid for it. I am thinking this plate was designed for the UM 4.6, before the Pro - I'm wondering if there is any difference in the rosettes or how they are positioned on the cameras. Again, not super important. I could get my dad to drill 4 new mounting holes in the plate rosette if I really wanted, he's skillful in such detailed work, but by that time I'll probably forget all about it. I just wanted to let you all know the final outcome of my non- problem.
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Re: Warning Ursa Mini 4.6k Owners, take the handle off the s

PostTue Mar 06, 2018 11:05 am

This thing just happened to me as well, the camera was stored in a padded camera bag when it rolled out from the boot of a car, far from a major crash since it was in a padded bag. Took it inside, not a scratch on the thing. Tried to start it, i could feel the fans on my hand, but no signal on the monitors.

Just got the verdict from the support, "beyond economic repair".

No matter how careful you are, there are others around you and thing will fall, tip over and dent. Insurance.

I really love the result i can get from the URSA mini pro and what the company is doing with the camera landscape. But i definitely hope that BM will take this thread in to consideration for future development. Looking robust is not the same as being robust.

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