4K signal over Ultrastudio 4K 2 and LG 31MU97

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Francesco Parrella

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4K signal over Ultrastudio 4K 2 and LG 31MU97

PostMon Nov 27, 2017 3:46 pm

Hi,

i am thinking to set up this configuration in order to edit and monitoring a 4K signal:

CPU (macbook pro or Imac Pro) -->>Ultrastudio 4K (via Tunderbolt 2)-->>LG 31MU97 (Via HDMI 1.4)

does anyone have some info or experiences about this setting?
Is the HDMI 1.4 of Ultrastudio support output in real4K and/or is the LG able to accept the signal from the Ultrastudio in 4K via HDMI 1.4?

Thank you very much for any advice.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: 4K signal over Ultrastudio 4K 2 and LG 31MU97

PostMon Nov 27, 2017 4:46 pm

UHD will work, but not 50/60p. 4K DCI should work for 24p, maybe 25p.
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Francesco Parrella

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Re: 4K signal over Ultrastudio 4K 2 and LG 31MU97

PostTue Nov 28, 2017 12:44 am

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:UHD will work, but not 50/60p. 4K DCI should work for 24p, maybe 25p.


Thank you for your reply Andrew:

i've found this info from Ultrastudio 4K2 user manual on the web:

1x HDMI type A connector including 3D frame packing, Ultra HD, and 4K support
4K format supported:
DCI 4K 4:2:2 by HDMI


but

HDMI format support:
3840x2160p/23.98, 3840x2160p/24, 3840x2160p/25, 3840x2160p29.97, 3840x2160p30, 4096x2160p23.98, 4096x2160p24


seems that, as you said, US4K2 support 4K DCI over HDMI but only if its p23.98 and p24

i've seen also that over SDI it support:

4K Format Support SDI:
3840x2160p/23.98, 3840x2160p/24, 3840x2160p/25, 3840x2160p29.97, 3840x2160p30, 3840x2160p50, 3840x2160p59.94, 3840x2160p60, 4096x2160p23.98, 4096x2160p24, 4096x2160p25, 4096x2160p29.97, 4096x2160p30, 4096x2160p50, 4096x2160p59.94, 4096x2160p60


and so: to get 4K DCI at 25p into LG monitor could be an option (or the only option) to go from ultra studio to monitor with an SDI-->HDMI 4K(DCI) converter ?

thanks again !
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: 4K signal over Ultrastudio 4K 2 and LG 31MU97

PostTue Nov 28, 2017 1:02 am

4K at 25p only may work- you simply need to try (it works only with some monitors). This is problematic option as it seams to be not in HDMI spec.
4K 50/60p 4:4:4 10bit is outside HDMI 2.0 bandwidth. It only works with DP 1.2, but getting e.g. dual SDI 12G converted to DP 1.2 costs fortune atm. If you happy with 4K 4:2:2 10bit then there is Apantac converter which takes 4x3G SDI and converts into DP 1.2 for up to 60p 4K.
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Francesco Parrella

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Re: 4K signal over Ultrastudio 4K 2 and LG 31MU97

PostWed Nov 29, 2017 11:12 pm

Thanks for reply, very appreciated infos.

But sorry i miss something... i can output from Ultrastudio 4K with 4X3G SDI?
Is the single-link 6G-SDI which support DCI / UHD 4K 4:2:2 splittable in 4X3G SDI connection for the Apantac Micro 4K-DP ?

Actually i am decided to renovate (or maybe is better to say build up :D ) a Full HD/4k editing/grading "suite" and my budget gets me to the config i mentioned in first post even because my output is still mostly Full HD, so monitoring 4K UHD from Resolve and 4K DCI from graphic card is enought at the moment, thinking that it could be improved in the future if needed.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: 4K signal over Ultrastudio 4K 2 and LG 31MU97

PostWed Nov 29, 2017 11:51 pm

If you find splitter :)
Most people run Apantac with Decklink 4K Extreme with its additional 4x3G SDI board.
What is missing on the market is "serious" SDI (6G/12G) to DP 1.2 converter. This would be an answer to so many problems. I think the reason is that currently there is only 1 (or definitely not many) chipset which allow to build such a device.
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Francesco Parrella

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Re: 4K signal over Ultrastudio 4K 2 and LG 31MU97

PostSun Dec 03, 2017 7:51 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:If you find splitter :)
Most people run Apantac with Decklink 4K Extreme with its additional 4x3G SDI board.
What is missing on the market is "serious" SDI (6G/12G) to DP 1.2 converter. This would be an answer to so many problems. I think the reason is that currently there is only 1 (or definitely not many) chipset which allow to build such a device.


Understood :)
but why BM do not consider to make a I/O card with DP monitor connection? Or maybe they are considering it but is technically not so simple...

get the Decklink means to build up a different CPU which would be also an option (maybe the most reasonable in terms of Q/P) but i don't want to go for Windows, and i am a bit afraid of Hackintosh (for many reasons) ...Linus allure me but i don't know much about that, sincerely i am strongly considering the new iMac Pro and this put Decklink out of choice.
Anyway i still have a bit of time before my decision for the monitor and generally for the system.. and at the moment options are enlarging more than reducing... :D but its ok, is better thinking now than thinking when money are already gone....
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: 4K signal over Ultrastudio 4K 2 and LG 31MU97

PostSun Dec 03, 2017 9:24 pm

Francesco Parrella wrote:Understood :)
but why BM do not consider to make a I/O card with DP monitor connection? Or maybe they are considering it but is technically not so simple...


I don't think its any more difficult than making it with HDMI/SDI (not sure about licensing costs). I think main reason is cable length- such a card could be strictly used only for short connections (although even this can be "solved" by use of fibre based converters). From other hand this is exactly what many "home" Resolve users need. They don't need SDI at all.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: 4K signal over Ultrastudio 4K 2 and LG 31MU97

PostMon Dec 04, 2017 10:59 am

Because of licensing DP and because DP is not a broadcast standard at all..

But i don't get why most monitor manufacturers of 4K screens limit themselfs to DP and not going for the new HDMI 4K standard ;)
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV, ATEM TVS HD, 1M/E 4K, 2M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Hyperdeck Studio Mini, SONY FS7 4K, Ursa Broadcast 4K
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: 4K signal over Ultrastudio 4K 2 and LG 31MU97

PostMon Dec 04, 2017 11:27 am

Xtreemtec wrote:... and because DP is not a broadcast standard at all..


This means nothing for home user.
It's as good as SDI for short connections- it's digital world:) It's even better than SDI as it offers easy/cheap solution for 4K 50/60p monitoring at 4:4:4. SDI can't even do it without dual 12G link which is basically non-existent on monitor side.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: 4K signal over Ultrastudio 4K 2 and LG 31MU97

PostMon Dec 04, 2017 11:51 am

But who said that BMD develops hardware for homeusers? :lol: They develop for the broadcast market.. ;)
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV, ATEM TVS HD, 1M/E 4K, 2M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Hyperdeck Studio Mini, SONY FS7 4K, Ursa Broadcast 4K
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: 4K signal over Ultrastudio 4K 2 and LG 31MU97

PostMon Dec 04, 2017 7:47 pm

Are they actually sell that many more to broadcast than to "home users"?
I would like to know what % sales are strict broadcast and what small/1 man companies.
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Francesco Parrella

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Re: 4K signal over Ultrastudio 4K 2 and LG 31MU97

PostThu Dec 21, 2017 10:27 am

Hi everyone and thanks for reply and infos.

Finally i've got the LG and US 4K and connected everything to my macbook pro late 2013 and works fine in 1080p but i had a strange issue on 4K DCI and UHD visualization:

Both from Premiere CC2017 and Resolve 14 the timeline set to 4K DCI is visualized with a sort of splited screen color, the framing is correct and 4K DCI get all the display area but the image is exactly splitter in correct color on the left and a sort of inverted/BW colors on the right.

Its only happen with 4KDCI and UHD signal via HDMI and a message on the monitor say to check that the HDMI and DP cable is the one included in the package, and it is.
I've already try to change the cable with an Orion Hi speed 4K UHD certified and no changes, still splitterd

maybe someone had the same issue or can advice for some mistake that i am missing on config?

here below how the system is connected:

CPU ->TB1 ->BMUS4K->HDMI->LG
CPU - >TB2-> EIZO CG223W (with DP converter)
BMUS4K->TB2 ->Promise raid system
Promise raid System ->TB2 -> LG Display port
LG -> USB -> USB HUB -> CPU

here below some other useful info:
Mac OS Sierra 10.12.6
Desktop video vers. 10.9.5

thanks for any advice
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: 4K signal over Ultrastudio 4K 2 and LG 31MU97

PostThu Dec 21, 2017 10:35 am

I don't understand your connection description.

Are you sending UHD out BM card over HDMI?
What format? Try 24p for test. 25p DCI may not work.
Go to LG settings and look for HDMI settings. If you see YUV or 422 try forcing this.
Also make sure BM is on dedicated TB2 port. Don't use any chaining.
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Francesco Parrella

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Re: 4K signal over Ultrastudio 4K 2 and LG 31MU97

PostThu Dec 21, 2017 12:11 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:I don't understand your connection description.

Are you sending UHD out BM card over HDMI?

yes both UHD and 4KDCI clips and timelines, always splitted when monitoring is set to 4K DCI or UHD. If i set to 1080p no problems

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:What format? Try 24p for test. 25p DCI may not work.


as timeline i've tried UHD 25 and 4K DCI 25 and 24p
as clip i've tried with r3d raw 50 conformed 25p, MXF 25p, dng 50p comforted to 25, 1080 50 to 25p (even when i select the clip the visualization is splitted, also when i monitoring in 4K DCI with 1080 footage is splitted... actually looks like a cable problem also because Monitor message said to check for it.

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Go to LG settings and look for HDMI settings. If you see YUV or 422 try forcing this.
Also make sure BM is on dedicated TB2 port. Don't use any chaining.

LG does not have HDMI option to set, on BM card details the signal over HDMI is "4K DCI 25p, 10-bit YUV 4:2:2"

I've check the config of monitor, BMcard, and CPU connection with a friend of mine who has the same monitor and card connected to an iMac with 10.11 OS ad it works at 4KDCI 25p timeline scaling down 4.6 dng ursa mini pro footage.

i've clean as much as possible the connection and make a try with CPU connected to BM card via TB and BM card to LG via HDMI and raid system to CPU via TB. still splitted.
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: 4K signal over Ultrastudio 4K 2 and LG 31MU97

PostThu Dec 21, 2017 6:38 pm

Project setting are not necessarily aligned with monitoring settings.

Try 24p UHD project with monitoring setting set for sure to 24p.

Also- render 24p UHD ProRes file and try plying it with MadiaExpress.
Doe monitor report what signal it's getting?
Does your BM support RGB 24p UHD? Try setting this in monitoring setting.
Have you tried 2nd HMDI input?
Does monitor work fine when connected over DP straight to Mac?


Manual lists:
HDMI Max Resolution 4096 x 2160 @ 24 Hz, but 25p may also work.
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Francesco Parrella

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Re: 4K signal over Ultrastudio 4K 2 and LG 31MU97

PostWed Dec 27, 2017 12:59 pm

Andrew Kolakowski wrote:Project setting are not necessarily aligned with monitoring settings.

Try 24p UHD project with monitoring setting set for sure to 24p.

Also- render 24p UHD ProRes file and try plying it with MadiaExpress.
Doe monitor report what signal it's getting?
Does your BM support RGB 24p UHD? Try setting this in monitoring setting.
Have you tried 2nd HMDI input?
Does monitor work fine when connected over DP straight to Mac?


Manual lists:
HDMI Max Resolution 4096 x 2160 @ 24 Hz, but 25p may also work.


Hi Andrew,

once again thanks for your time.

i've tried all the HDMI port and also connecting the LG directly to the Mac Book pro via HDMI or DP and the 4K visualization is correct. Is not a cable problem because i've tried 3 different cables and always give me the same message with no results, than i've made a lot of tries with different timeline and clip formats (not mixing clips or settings) also using media express and set a little clip at 24p proress 422 and no way to monitoring correctly (is still splitted setting the timeline and/or monitoring at 24p or 25p). BUT the correct monitoring colors comes when i set the monitoring at 23,98p for UHD or 4K DCI. This is the only way to view the clip or the timeline without the splitting issue on LG. I've tried in media express using 24p clip, from Resolve if i set monitoring at 23.98 the frame is not splitted anymore. Even from Premiere CC2017 if the timeline is set to 23.98 the visualization is correct.

I've checked the BM Ultrastudio 4K specs and should be able to output a 4K signal up to 25p in UHD via HDMI
is it possible that BM card (Ultrastudio 4K) dose not output the UHD or 4KDCI signal at more than 23.98 fps via HDMI? or maybe is the LG that can't interpretate the signal from US correctly when its higher than that?

thanks again
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Andrew Kolakowski

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Re: 4K signal over Ultrastudio 4K 2 and LG 31MU97

PostWed Dec 27, 2017 2:18 pm

Hmmm- 24p (as well as 23976p) should work for sure from BM and LG side. When it comes to 25p then this is problematic on both BM and specially LG, which lists max HDMI resolution as 4096x2160 24p in manual.

Try this. Connect LG directly to Mac HDMI port. Go to settings and change it to 4096x2160 24p. Is this working?
You can also download SwitchResX and force 4096x2160 at 25Hz (if Mac doesn't list this mode itself)- is this working?
You may simply have incompatibility issue between BM and LG. BM devices have many issue with HDMI. You have tons of complains and strangely not only with Pc monitors, but even TVs. I only guess this is BM issue as they keep releasing new drivers with notes about "more devices supported over HDMI".

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