Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

Questions about ATEM Switchers, Camera Converter and everything live!
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mikekay

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Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostSun Dec 03, 2017 3:02 pm

So, I am sitting here with a custom built computer and wiring to use my BMD Quad 2, which is just over a year old - my cost $1600 - for live video recording. I use Vmix for this. About a week ago, when I went on a gig, a weird thing happened. I only had 4 inputs - 1,2,5 and 6 - and thank god they all worked cause it was a 4 camera shoot. Today was to be a 5 camera shoot.

Yesterday I brought the computer in to update the operating, drivers, and flash the firmware on the quad 2 - as the software requested. After updating the OS (W10 PRO 64 bit) I tested vmix for inputs and it was still the same 1,2 5,6....so I downloaded the updated software, installed it - and the quad 2 just disappeared. Great! Can't configure cause the desktop config utility will not see the unit. The drivers appear in device mangler, at least 1,2 5, and 6 appear there...but vmix will not see them, desktop untility does not see them....I am screwed. Tried re-seating the card, uninstall software, install older version - all to no avail. So here is the broken list of BMD gear in the last three years:
Qty -3 Intensity PRO
Qty - 1 Quad 2
Qty 2 - HDMI to SDI mini converter
Qty 1 - Pocket Camera - HDMI output broken......

This is a disturbing trend. All of the issues here are due to crappy manufacturing standards, and the problems are listed all over the internet. I am a small operator and cannot afford to pay that much $$ for a piece of gear that lasts a year and a half.

I am calling BMD out! Even if my Quad 2 is not in warranty, replace it. After numerous searches, I found an exact problem listed by somebody else and it turns out one fan on the Quad 2 is not working....

I purchased BMD dear with the intent of buying quality. I was told by other professionals that this was top notch gear. The list above proves otherwise.

Do the right thing - be a professional company - own up to your problems and make your customers happy. I dare you.
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David Peddicord

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostSun Dec 03, 2017 3:26 pm

Great post.

May I ask how old the Quad 2 is? Are both fans running? From the photo, the fans are 3-wire which mean it is sensing current.

I only own a couple of BMD pieces and they all work fine. However, as I've stated before, what line of electronics can have so many issues and people still buy it?

Cell phones are the only thing I can think of. Crappy reception - well, you just live with it. My new LG phone doesn't sync email right. Live with it.

I read the forum to learn as well as laugh at all the continuing issues.

It's great entertainment.
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mikekay

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostSun Dec 03, 2017 3:32 pm

Both questions are answered in my post. The Quad 2 is a little over a year old, and no, one fan is not working. It may be entertaining to read, but the reality for me is that my business is in trouble because of this. And it is NOT entertaining in any way.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostSun Dec 03, 2017 4:10 pm

1 fan not working is not a good sign.. Then 1 core might overheat.. or a power issue that is powering both the core and the fan from the same power.

But i don't believe that. So i guess 1 of the fans died and then the core stopped working because of overheating.. Or overheating protection..

You say port 1 2 5 and 6 work in vmix ?? See image below for port numbering in Vmix..
The upper 4 ports are running to the upper chip.. So i guess that fan is out right? You might want to test quite brief with changing the fans over to see if the port of the upper fan does work.. But don't keep the cardrunning too long as the lower chip could have issues if you don't force coolit.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostSun Dec 03, 2017 6:51 pm

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Last edited by Denny Smith on Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Denny Smith
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David Peddicord

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostSun Dec 03, 2017 9:19 pm

mikekay wrote:Both questions are answered in my post. The Quad 2 is a little over a year old, and no, one fan is not working. It may be entertaining to read, but the reality for me is that my business is in trouble because of this. And it is NOT entertaining in any way.


I apologize that I inferred that your troubles are entertaining. Not what I meant.

However, if your income depends on it, stop buying crap. But then, how many can afford to buy non-crap? It's a toss up for sure.

But as the other poster stated, even top rated gear needs servicing. I've changed numerous fans in Biamp and other gear. But only a year old? Not good at all. You should be able to spec the fan and change it yourself.
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Matt Certa

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostTue Dec 05, 2017 5:38 pm

A thought came to mind. Ive seen a fair amount of PC cards get fried from grounding or voltage issues on the SDI cables.
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Zach Schuster

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostTue Dec 05, 2017 9:15 pm

Matt Certa wrote:A thought came to mind. Ive seen a fair amount of PC cards get fried from grounding or voltage issues on the SDI cables.


That's a good point. I had two Sony cameras with failed HD-SDI outputs, both within a year of purchase. Sony repaired them under warranty and suggested having all equipment off when connecting the BNC to the HD-SDI port.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostTue Dec 05, 2017 9:19 pm

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Last edited by Denny Smith on Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sander Vreuls

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostTue Dec 05, 2017 9:33 pm

Denny Smith wrote:This is a good practice for all equipment connected with BNCs, it is easy to get a got to ground short when connecting them if you are not careful. Also, most SDI connections are not designed to be “plug n play”like HDMI is. But even with a camera, I would connect all the bits together first, then power them up, especially camera and monitor setups.
Cheers


I'm sorry, I have no idea where you got this information but it's total bull.

Everyone in the broadcast world has been hot plugging BNC's since the beginning of time. Especially in the digital world it's no problem at all.

It's impossible in a live production environment to turn off all equipment just to hook something up. Total and utter rubbish.
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mikekay

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostTue Dec 05, 2017 11:58 pm

Thanks for all the information and posts. It appears that BMD is going to RMA the card, I have not had time to follow up yet....but it also struck me as strange that I have been asked to change my name in the forum. I use Mike Kay for all business stuff. It is my email address, on my business cards and I use this in forums all over the world - with no issues. I'm not trying to hide anything nor appear as someone I'm not, Mike Kay is me for business.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostWed Dec 06, 2017 6:37 am

I was not referring to the “broadcast world” where the techs know what they are Doing.
Goodbye
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostWed Dec 06, 2017 11:24 am

Sander Vreuls wrote:
I'm sorry, I have no idea where you got this information but it's total bull.

Everyone in the broadcast world has been hot plugging BNC's since the beginning of time. Especially in the digital world it's no problem at all.

It's impossible in a live production environment to turn off all equipment just to hook something up. Total and utter rubbish.

Heey Sander can you kill the OBV power for a moment.. I need to hook up another monitor. :lol:

Been hot plugging SDI for 8 years now. Even 12G-sdi what we test a lot these days here in the workshop. Never gone wrong with me..
Offcoarse i can think off people that build custom supply voltage units, Don't do propper grounding, Earth issues, PAT testing ect ect, Yes i believe if you have a voltage difference somehow of more then 40/50 Volts you can potentially kill some hardware when connecting..
But in a normal enviroment were everything IS CE TUV or FCC tested and aproved. And common sense will have you back on a lot of things ;)
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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dpictMEDIA

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostWed Dec 06, 2017 3:06 pm

I'm sorry, I have no idea where you got this information but it's total bull.


A very modern way to have a constructive conversation and share a different view point. In keeping with Sander's established way of "web talk" his "Total Bull" statement is "Total Bull" yes, SDI is designed to be "hot swappable" but I have had equipment failure due to different ground issues when working with long cable runs and/or when some truck engineer forgot to properly ground his rig. Maybe the way to look at this is: If you trust the way the system is installed or setup hot swap away. If you don't know who has been working on the system or they appear to be a clown ... hot swap at your own risk.
Last edited by dpictMEDIA on Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Matt Certa

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostWed Dec 06, 2017 4:36 pm

I had a tech physically get shocked from a SDI cable coming from a TV truck last year. Blew one of my DA's in the process.
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Sander Vreuls

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostWed Dec 06, 2017 9:47 pm

Grounding issues are indeed possible with BNC. Which is why everyone is always happy when we have fiber between us (the truck) and the light or floor position.

I'm already happy that the analog era with ground loops going through your screen and humbuggers are gone.

But in general (blanket statement here) SDI is hot pluggable.
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Jack Fairley

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostWed Dec 06, 2017 10:06 pm

Matt Certa wrote:I had a tech physically get shocked from a SDI cable coming from a TV truck last year. Blew one of my DA's in the process.

I've been shocked a couple times touching BNC connectors that were somehow carrying current. Can't imagine the gear likes it any more than I did.
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Asgeir Hustad

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostThu Dec 07, 2017 8:07 am

Well, if you have ground loop issues, any copper connection will give you trouble, no matter whether you hot swap or connect before powering up. Since HD-SDI is not transformer coupled, unlike ethernet etc, and not isolated, like fiber would be, you can have trouble if the different circuits powering gear doesn't have the same ground reference, although it's surprisingly robust.

I've had issues where the control room had one circuit and the cameras were on another, separate circuit with a ground fault - after that I generally run even the cameras and all converters on a UPS from the control room.

Jack Fairley wrote:
Matt Certa wrote:I had a tech physically get shocked from a SDI cable coming from a TV truck last year. Blew one of my DA's in the process.

I've been shocked a couple times touching BNC connectors that were somehow carrying current. Can't imagine the gear likes it any more than I did.


Well, with only the gear connected, there probably weren't a connection to ground, so the equipment wouldn't in fact sense anything wrong. Only when you touched it did a low impedance connection to ground appear, and you got zapped. This is where an RCD can save lives!
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Steinar H. Gunderson

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostThu Dec 07, 2017 11:16 pm

Sander Vreuls wrote:Grounding issues are indeed possible with BNC. Which is why everyone is always happy when we have fiber between us (the truck) and the light or floor position.


I find it sad that the TV world is so slow to move to fiber. I mean, Blackmagic launches a new 8K60 (!!) card, and chooses quad-link 12G-SDI over BNC without providing a fiber option? And fiber converters are somehow $1000 per pair?
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Howard Roll

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostFri Dec 08, 2017 10:34 am

Jack Fairley wrote:
Matt Certa wrote:I had a tech physically get shocked from a SDI cable coming from a TV truck last year. Blew one of my DA's in the process.

I've been shocked a couple times touching BNC connectors that were somehow carrying current. Can't imagine the gear likes it any more than I did.


More likely you were shocked touching the BNC ground while handling other gear that was energized. Lighting trusses and stages can easily become charged. Video signal cable not so much, the nominal signal range is about 1.1v. When dealing with power, ground can be just as dangerous as current.
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Sander Vreuls

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostFri Dec 08, 2017 2:55 pm

Steinar H. Gunderson wrote:
Sander Vreuls wrote:Grounding issues are indeed possible with BNC. Which is why everyone is always happy when we have fiber between us (the truck) and the light or floor position.


I find it sad that the TV world is so slow to move to fiber. I mean, Blackmagic launches a new 8K60 (!!) card, and chooses quad-link 12G-SDI over BNC without providing a fiber option? And fiber converters are somehow $1000 per pair?


Sadly, BNC is a lot more rugged for the price. Sure you can get tactical fiber, but that's uneconomical for short lengths. What is done mostly is to go from your OB truck to the field/studio with multicore tactical fiber, and then go BNC from there.

I'm not sure I want to hook up a simple monitor with fiber at this point.
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Steinar H. Gunderson

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Re: Dear Blackmagic - the magic is over

PostFri Dec 08, 2017 7:27 pm

Sander Vreuls wrote:Sadly, BNC is a lot more rugged for the price.


I'd say that with 8K, the economics of price start to change a bit. 12G-SDI-capable cable (especially over long lengths!) isn't that cheap anymore, and now you need four cables, at four times the price.

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