4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

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Michael Odhiambo

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Jan 04, 2018 10:13 am

They are selling the URSA mini and have a picture of the URSA. Reviews are from the URSA original.....

No word since June 2017 (atleast 2 sensors have been fabricated for testing by now)
Tim

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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Jan 04, 2018 10:50 pm

So is this what it has come to? Is the next report going to be a sighting of Sasquatch filming tourists with an Ursa 4.7K?

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Asok Kumar

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Jan 08, 2018 5:12 am

So,even after this much discussion on Ursa4K upgrade and the promised 4.6K turret,why this black magic design company is keeping their mouth SHUT!!!
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robert Hart

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Jan 08, 2018 9:58 am

Ashok.


It may be all about harm reduction for the company. Until the wizards can find a technical solution or the sales-folk can wean the remaining big URSA owners off those still working cameras, nothing more will be said because there will be nothing new to say. There may be too much legal risk exposure from the company even publicly discussing the topic beyond the announcements already made.

I know that 4.6K or more would be a bonus. If it is just the wider field-of-view you want and a bit more low-light performance, you can achieve that with a custo ount and a Metabones 0.71 power focal reducer optical cell when using cinevised DSLR lenses like Zeiss CP2, Xeen, Rokinon/Samyang Cine which do not have rear optical elements closer to focal plane than about 40mm.

Unfortunately, many traditional PL-Mount lenses are not suitable for using with a focal reducer.
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RaviRajah

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Jan 10, 2018 12:31 pm

I do believe that the sensor on this turret would make more money being released on a new camera than being sold alone, and even if released alone they could always push up the price way crazy just to keep ursa users who are complaining quiet.... they are however specs and nice pics of it available here on videotoybox

I also do believe that there is alot of merit in the fact that a major selling point of the big ursa was future upgrade ability , meaning that blackmagic has a commitment to its buyers to keep supporting the camera because this was a feature that added to the high selling price of the big ursa at the time and funds should of been kept aside for this. that being said, should the sensor be released -
the sensor on the URSA would be a game changer and cut sales on the ursa mini , having more features than the ursa 4.6k sensor... , why would people buy a whole new camera that blackmagic hopes to release soon ... maybe we should start a change.org post. ??
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Asok Kumar

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Jan 11, 2018 3:47 am

6 months ago black magic design company CEO told that the development of the turret for the Ursa is going on,but no further news from him yet!!!
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Patrick Acum

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Jan 12, 2018 9:37 am

Exactly, Asok Kumar! If they were planning to quietly drop it, why on earth would you have the coo say this and post it permanently on the board? I recently ordered the adapter from Luca Butrera, hasn't arrived yet, but I pulled the old beast out of its box where its been sitting for a year and did think "This is such a great camera!"
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robert Hart

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Jan 13, 2018 4:37 pm

Patrick. If Luca's adaptor works like the Metabones Ultra optic, I think you will be well pleased along with being able to use EF lenses which my own mod did not enable. - I did not bother as I have Nikons but I probably should have because I also have EF-adaptors.
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Patrick Acum

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Jan 14, 2018 8:54 pm

Im interested to see what frame size it'll compare to. The Ursa 4k is pretty small for s35, the 4.6k is pretty big for s35. I doubt the ursa major with the adapter will hit FF, who knows? I was hoping my sigmas might still cover it, with the booster and a 1.8 zoom, it turns it into an unexpected low light machine!!
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Jan 15, 2018 3:27 pm

I'm still hesitating as to whether to sell the Ursa. Every month that passes means a drop in my potential selling price. A little news is better than no news at all.
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David Hessel

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Jan 16, 2018 12:51 am

Seriously how long has it been? How long overdue is the turret? The URSA is dead, they are not updating firmware and there is a post here showing that replacement part are not even available. BM doesn't give a crap about you they have proved that already, move on or fight back but this blind Faith is rediculous.
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Patrick Acum

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Jan 19, 2018 9:53 pm

I just received the lucadapter today and fitted it to my big ursa. Its really amazing, easily adds a stop or so more light - in fact it seems better in low light now than my mini at 800.
With this mod, that also gives a much more usable frame size, I would settle for BMD at least updating the firmware on the big ursa to bring it in line with the 4k mini, The 4.9 os with this adapter and no black hole sun, would make this still a relevant camera.
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robert Hart

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Jan 20, 2018 2:19 am

The speedbooster is a serious improvement. If BM could do a fix for the black hole sun or in my example magenta hole sun, that would be a bonus.

If you are offering up a new lens to the camera which looks like it could go a bit close to the speedbooster optic, cut a paper disk and put in between the new lens rear element and the speedbooster front element.

Leave the paper disk small enough that it can slip around a little bit but large enough in diameter that the centre of the lens elements will always be covered. Put the paper disk in whilst the camera is in its normal operating position.

Fit the lens as normally. Turn the camera upside down and give it a slight shake. Place the camera with the lens facing directly upward.

Dismount the lens whilst the camera is facing directly upwards. If the paper disk has not moved and remained in a new position against the top edge of the space it sits in, there is a fair chance the paper was trapped between the two glass surfaces and could not move when the camera was turned upside-down.

If the paper cannot move because it has been trapped, it is likely that the rear element of the lens and the front element of the speedbooster will touch and become damaged.
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David Hessel

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Jan 20, 2018 3:10 am

The black hole sun on the 4k is not fixable in camera. Unlike the pocket camera which had the ability to differentiate between an overloaded pixel and a dark pixel the 4k sensor has now way of reporting if a pixel is dark because it is overloaded or dark because it should be. Only software that attempts to determine if it is one or the other is possible. As such there is a risk for false positives and BM wisely has added the fix as a post processing solution in resolve giving the user more control and options. In short black hole sun fix will probably never happen in camera.
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robert Hart

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Jan 20, 2018 3:51 am

The black/magenta hole is an enduring memory then. It was a good notion whilst it lasted but not impossible to deal with. Overcooked thin misty cloud does sort-of faint green-khaki things to the blue sky seen through it but that is a matter for the cameraman to manage properly.

The extra ISO400 or so does require a little re-learning for the likes of myself.
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Patrick Acum

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Jan 20, 2018 12:28 pm

That's a shame about a software fix for the purple hole sun - I can't see it in my viewfinder, only if Im using the big screen It's quite a specific shade of magenta, and being that it's always surrounded by other pixels that are clipping, I would have thought they could safely code for those circumstances. Even if it was unpredictable, it could be a switchable in an os update. The mini 4k with the same sensor I believe does not exhibit the phenomenon.
If the turret is not coming, I'd be happy with the camera now with the extra stop if the OS could be brought into line with the mini 4k. Having the option to use luts would be a huge bonus - in addition to having the option of monitoring luts, I'd also like to see the option of recordable baked in Luts for fast turnaround.
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Norbert Bielan

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Jan 20, 2018 4:35 pm

The 'Version 2' sensors - which are supposedly tweaked a bit - don't have the sun spot. The 4K URSA Mini and the V2 turrets have this sensor. Maybe V1 URSA owners can find V2 turrets on the used market if it's worth it...
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Asok Kumar

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Jan 21, 2018 2:10 am

I don't understand why bmd is discontinuing the big Ursa,if the body weight is the problem,the arri Alexa is equal or more weight than Ursa,the newly launched Sony Venice with all the ESSENTIAL accessories weight more than Ursa,and this much extensive discussion on the Ursa turret reveal how much the handsome Ursa is in the people's heart!,ower Grant pretty is not hearing it,or purposefully he is shutting his eyes and ears closed?
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David Hessel

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Jan 21, 2018 2:50 am

Asok Kumar wrote:I don't understand why bmd is discontinuing the big Ursa


The answer is simple BM is a business if there was enough demand for the big URSA they wouldn't be discontinuing it.
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Jan 21, 2018 6:15 am

Asok Kumar wrote:I don't understand why bmd is discontinuing the big Ursa,if the body weight is the problem,the arri Alexa is equal or more weight than Ursa,the newly launched Sony Venice with all the ESSENTIAL accessories weight more than Ursa,and this much extensive discussion on the Ursa turret reveal how much the handsome Ursa is in the people's heart!,ower Grant pretty is not hearing it,or purposefully he is shutting his eyes and ears closed?
Here's the real reason: it's for the wrong audience. It's designed for an Alexa user who doesn't care because he/she gets to use an Alexa, but priced for people who don't know what an Alexa is. The Mini fits BMD's market perfectly... because it suits their needs and budget, since most are one person crews.

Both are good cameras, but the big Ursa isn't a great seller to people who mostly operate as one-person-bands because it was designed around a crew rather than singleton.

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Ben Mart

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Jan 21, 2018 7:59 am

Asok Kumar wrote:I don't understand why bmd is discontinuing the big Ursa,if the body weight is the problem,the arri Alexa is equal or more weight than Ursa,the newly launched Sony Venice with all the ESSENTIAL accessories weight more than Ursa,and this much extensive discussion on the Ursa turret reveal how much the handsome Ursa is in the people's heart!,ower Grant pretty is not hearing it,or purposefully he is shutting his eyes and ears closed?
Have I missed an something??? please can you point to where BMD say they are discontinuing the big ursa turret. Thanks in advance.

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Ben Mart

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Jan 21, 2018 8:05 am

Patrick Acum wrote:I just received the lucadapter today and fitted it to my big ursa. Its really amazing, easily adds a stop or so more light - in fact it seems better in low light now than my mini at 800.
With this mod, that also gives a much more usable frame size, I would settle for BMD at least updating the firmware on the big ursa to bring it in line with the 4k mini, The 4.9 os with this adapter and no black hole sun, would make this still a relevant camera.
Hi Patrick

Please could you post some footage would love to see it in action. And thoughts on it...is it soft around the edges?
Also do you think the mosaic moire filter would fit with it - if they still make one to fit the ursa major?

Ta.

Thx

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jefferypeterson

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Jan 22, 2018 1:45 am

I had a Version 2 URSA and it still had the sun spot. The Mini did not.

Norbert Bielan wrote:The 'Version 2' sensors - which are supposedly tweaked a bit - don't have the sun spot. The 4K URSA Mini and the V2 turrets have this sensor. Maybe V1 URSA owners can find V2 turrets on the used market if it's worth it...
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haseebdistorxian

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Jan 22, 2018 3:46 am

Norbert Bielan wrote:The 'Version 2' sensors - which are supposedly tweaked a bit - don't have the sun spot. The 4K URSA Mini and the V2 turrets have this sensor. Maybe V1 URSA owners can find V2 turrets on the used market if it's worth it...



v2 has the blackhole sun problem, they say they have given the fix on resolve by clicking on black highlight, but there are many places where that option completely fails, had to use aftereffects to fix it many times
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VicHarris

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Jan 22, 2018 5:52 pm

jefferypeterson wrote:I had a Version 2 URSA and it still had the sun spot. The Mini did not.

Norbert Bielan wrote:The 'Version 2' sensors - which are supposedly tweaked a bit - don't have the sun spot. The 4K URSA Mini and the V2 turrets have this sensor. Maybe V1 URSA owners can find V2 turrets on the used market if it's worth it...



Exactly. My UMP has the black hole sun in certain situations. You are never going to 100% never have it appear in certain situations. It happens in Alexas too, well I can't confirm that on the Alexa Mini or Alexa 65 :)
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Asok Kumar

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Jan 23, 2018 3:03 am

But the version2 Ursa is only EF Mount,not pl Mount,my Ursa with v1 Mount is pl Mount,I went to upgrade it to v2 version PL Mount,how it is possible?
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Jan 30, 2018 10:37 am

Patrick Acum wrote:I just received the lucadapter today and fitted it to my big ursa. Its really amazing, easily adds a stop or so more light - in fact it seems better in low light now than my mini at 800.
With this mod, that also gives a much more usable frame size, I would settle for BMD at least updating the firmware on the big ursa to bring it in line with the 4k mini, The 4.9 os with this adapter and no black hole sun, would make this still a relevant camera.


Is it possible to get a thread going about the Lucadapters for URSA Regular? I could only find a facebook page.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Jan 30, 2018 5:31 pm

yes that would be great. i asked the luca via e-mail about using it in the ursa but his answer was very vague:
"Yes, if the Ursa have the EF mount in theory it's possible but I never test it."

is there sample footage of the speedbooster on any ursa-mini 4.6k or ursa?
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robert Hart

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Jan 31, 2018 8:56 am

Thomas.

Here are a couple of clips originated on a big URSA which has the Metabones "Ultra" 0.71 Speedbooster optic installed with Nikon still lenses mounted. The clips should only be regarded as a hint of what Patrick may achieve with his adaptor. The Metabones optic is not identical with the Luca adaptor but is very close.

The clip quality is not ideal as I had to play back via the SDI port to a HD recorder from the camera to get clips which my editing computer can cope with.

Last edited by robert Hart on Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Jan 31, 2018 8:59 am

Apologies in advance for the lighting and audio. Patrick in the UK is a far more accomplished practitioner of the visual arts than I.

The lenses used were a Nikon 28mm F1.4 and a Nikon 50mm f1.4. The room was very small and available workspace was very limited.

Like the previous clip, I had to play out to a HD recorder. The bars top and bottom cover text which appeared on the HD playback. I forgot to set the overlay display to "off"

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Jan 31, 2018 3:46 pm

"Live Production, Camera and Broadcast Update Please join us at 10am PST on Thursday 1st February"

Tap my slippers and hope the yellow brick road leads to a URSA Turret announcement.

If they announce a TKIP Ethernet switcher that has up-gradable fiber optic transceivers with enough bandwidth to handle 8K I would also be ecstatic and on the edge of my seat.

I am still waiting for the turret upgrade BMD please only call your products up-gradable if it is true.
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Donnell Henry

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Jan 31, 2018 4:41 pm

Brian I knew I saw you on the yellow brick road.. I guess we’re both headed in the direction of the Ursa turret. :D C,mooooon blackmagic !!!!!!
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Patrick Acum

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Jan 31, 2018 9:26 pm

Such flattery Robert!!
Im a bit busy at the moment, but I'll try and post a clip next week, even if it's something just at home. I did a show called Autopsy of a Fatberg last week. It was disgusting. Anyway, the vibe was supposed to be akin to stranger things so we were in an abandoned factory, scientists in hazmats, kino tubes all over the place, low levels and haze. I used a couple of 4.6ks, the pocket and I even got out the big ursa. I didnt really spend much time with it, but from a rough glance, 400 iso now seems pretty much on a par with the exposure I was getting on the 4.6s at 800 iso, so I 'd guess nearly a stop gain. I also used the 11-16 on it for a wide and it looked sharp enough on the corners, maybe a bit softer but it's probably now wider than the lens is made to cover, certainly bigger than aps-c ,as the Rokinon 16mm vignetted.
It would be really great to get luts activated on this camera, on the facebook page Pedro Ferreira has created a cool lut to match the sensors. A bit of help with the nuclear highlight roll off would be awesome.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 02, 2018 12:31 am

Seriously? Not even a mention?
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Donnell Henry

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 02, 2018 1:38 am

Gavin_c_clark wrote:Seriously? Not even a mention?


Let's see what happens at NAB
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 02, 2018 2:30 am

Patrick, I don’t want to derail this thread, but I think you found the Rokinon 16mm vignettes on the 4.6K sensor. Are you talking about the Rokinon 16mm T2.2 Cine DS Lens? I’ve been told by Rokinon that this APS-C lens actually has a 30.0mm image circle so it should cover the 4.6K sensor with its diagonal of 29.08mm.


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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 02, 2018 12:42 pm

Gavin_c_clark wrote:Seriously? Not even a mention?


At this rate, the only new turret I would expect for the Ursa would be a B mount.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Feb 03, 2018 12:58 pm

and ARRI just announced a new camera. Thanks Grant
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4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Feb 03, 2018 6:23 pm

Gobbling up everything posted on the new Arri Alexa LF, LPL, and Signature primes. The new 4.5K sensor (very strange 4448x3096, with 0.00825mm photosites) will have met Netflix requirements I believe. Someone called it the Arri Netflix camera and that might just stick!

The LPL was designed with a 62mm opening and 44mm FFD, so the new Signature primes could offer a fast T1.8 with a telecentric lens design. Arri pulls out all the stops! Hope John Brawley gets to use this one.


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Michael Odhiambo

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Feb 03, 2018 10:02 pm

So, the 4.6 Turret isn't working on Big URSA. The 4K turret V1 & V2 is. Whats the possibility of getting this new 4K sensor in the URSA camera? It has new color science and extended DR which could mean a nicer image...in theory. Being big URSA isn't a run and gun, I have many applications for it in the studio.

So Tim en em, can we have this sensor as an "upgrade " option? Just slap it on the turret and ship as we continue waiting for a 4.6 Turret.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 04, 2018 7:06 pm

Michael Odhiambo wrote:Whats the possibility of getting this new 4K sensor in the URSA camera?

Before BM stopped selling Ursas, I sent an email to BM asking this very question. Their reply was the only way to get a turret was to buy an Ursa with it. In hindsight, they were dumping inventory. The Ursa factory is closed and shuttered. If they can't sell a loose turret that they used to make, there is no chance the 4.7K turret will ever ship.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 05, 2018 5:57 am

Alas it seems, I am to run an institution for orphaned cameras, SI2K ( plus non-op spare for parts ) and a big URSA 4KPL.

Nevertheless the big one works well enough and like the SI2K, a speedbooster optic and modern SSDs seem to give it renewed utility. It would be nice to be able to ease a hoof in through the Netflix door but the 4K sensor does not get there.

The dies and moulds for the big URSA body/turret forms by now have probably been consigned to scrap so we may not see its likeness again.

If the VR bandwagon really takes off, existing planar camera tech may soon enough be fetched out of dumpsters, then tumbling and clattering around our own soon-to-be third world alleyways towed with its cables by street urchins. I never thought HDCAM would be so fated but there you go. It happened so fast.
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Feb 07, 2018 6:57 pm

rick.lang wrote:Gobbling up everything posted on the new Arri Alexa LF, LPL, and Signature primes. The new 4.5K sensor (very strange 4448x3096, with 0.00825mm photosites) will have met Netflix requirements I believe. Someone called it the Arri Netflix camera and that might just stick!


Netflix is probably the main reason that this camera exists at all :)

BTW, the 4.6K UM and UMP cameras are also Netflix certified.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Feb 07, 2018 7:28 pm

As is the full size ursa 4.6k (and has been for about a year)

Maybe Netflix got all the turrets lol
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Feb 07, 2018 9:10 pm

Gavin and rick ..we’ll call them the Netflix turrets :D
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Michael Odhiambo

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Feb 08, 2018 9:10 pm

Didn't think this was possible. EF to PL adapter. Only problem is its an expander, not a reducer. Would have been interesting to use on the URSA if it was a PL reducer.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1385403-REG/tokina_tc_16exp_ep_cinema_1_6x_expander_ef.html
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haseebdistorxian

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 6:00 am

Why dont anyone develop a third party company turret for ursa i am sure many people will fund it, iam so disappointed that bmd failed us, i had hope until now, they are ignoring big ursa like it didnt exist, well atleast give your final verdict so we face reality
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rick.lang

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 5:32 pm

The turret for URSA includes the mount and the sensor. Not too many third-parties will know how to integrate their own sensors into the URSA system and integrate it with the BMD processors. Remember the turret is more than a mount.


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haseebdistorxian

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 5:37 pm

Well maybe, but i ant seeing turret coming ever, they have stopped mentioning it now
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Donnell Henry

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Feb 10, 2018 12:06 am

If it doesn’t show up by Nab.. then i’d Start getting worried. I do have a feeling they’re working on some sort of large format camera. A big brother to the mini. Maybe 16 stops of DR, with a whole new color science. I’m still waiting on the turret. If they can get whatever they need to get out of the turret they’re working on..it will once again shake up the industry. Alexa is just getting in on the Netflix game ..the 4.6k minis are already accepted cameras by Netflix standards. There’s nothing out there like the form factor of the big Ursa ..now imagine that with an upgraded sensor ..15 stops or above or 4.6k or above resolution. You still get to have 3 people work around the camera for larger productions ..what really hurt this camera is the 4K sensor they have in it now ..black hole sun ..Dynamic range ..Fpn in some cases. The form factor was and still is genius. Hopefully we get this update soon. BM Don’t let us down on this.
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