Lens for festivals

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David Johnson

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Lens for festivals

PostTue Feb 06, 2018 5:58 pm

We have the full size URSA and i do have a few Samyang lenses now. 14mm, 24mm and 35mm.
really loving these units for the price they were.

Need something though to cover festivals and events so we can zoom in and out but still need the 1.5 range to let in the extra light.

Recommendations please
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Earl R. Thurston

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Re: Lens for festivals

PostWed Feb 07, 2018 1:17 am

You didn't mention which lens mount, but based your mention of Samyang you probably mean EF.

Zoom lenses for these large-sensor cinema cameras, specifically parfocal zooms, get expensive very quickly. I'm discovering that myself. Prices start around $3,000 and go up -- way, way up -- from there.

The fastest zooms I'm aware of are the Sigma Cine High-Speed Zooms, which are T2. They have two models to cover focal lengths from 18-35mm and 50-100mm. Each lens is $4,000 USD. Unfortunately, two separate lenses makes event coverage a bit impractical.

To get good coverage with one lens, the Canon Cine-Servo 17-120mm T2.95 would be handy, but that's around $27,000 USD

In the middle of the road is the ZEISS 21-100mm T2.9-3.9 Lightweight Zoom at $10,000 USD. Or the Canon 18-80mm Compact Servo at $5,300 USD, but that's a pretty slow lens at T4.4.

Anything under $3,000 will be a still camera varifocal lens, which means you'll have to keep refocusing whenever you zoom.
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rick.lang

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Lens for festivals

PostWed Feb 07, 2018 5:53 am

Word of caution on the Zeiss 21-100 T2.9-T3.9. This lens ramps linearly as you zoom from 21 to 100mm. So half way through the zoom range you’ve list about a half stop. As you continue to zoom, you lose more light until you lose a stop by 100mm. Losing light gradually as you zoom in a continuous shot is unacceptable. Most zooms that ramp, have a range that is a constant aperture and then when you’re close to the maximum focal length, the lens quickly loses light. That’s something you can live with by avoiding shooting longer than the constant aperture range. The Zeiss is a unique design that gradually loses light through all focal lengths. Not acceptable for event work.


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Ryan Payne

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Re: Lens for festivals

PostWed Feb 07, 2018 9:30 am

as far as I'm aware the sigma cinema lenses mentioned above also come in their sigma ART range at around 800 for the 18-35 and 1000 for the 50-100. I'm under the impression that they use the same optics but different housing. Both are 1.8 but without IS and their focal distances are rather limited.

I don't think you'll find a zoom with decent length under 2.8 though. Canon's 70-200 IS 2.8 is highly regarded but might not let in enough light for you. The Sigmas are well usable at 1.8 but lack length unless you can swap them on the fly.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Lens for festivals

PostWed Feb 07, 2018 6:09 pm

I think a better situation is to leave the big Ursa in the Studio, and get the new Boradcast Camera ($3495) and a used HD ENG lens ($900), so total cost would be around $4500. Most event footage winds up on UTube or other internet streaming or Cable TV, so the Broadcast Camera 4K resolution, even on a 1-inch sensor, is more than adequate. The Ursa Shoulder Mount and EVF will fit the Broadcast camers.

I personally, would not want to be hauling a Big Ursa around on my shoulder or otherwise to cover an event, where fast movement and agility are required. The right tool for the job. ENG lenses are f/1.4 to 1.9, and the Broadcast is ISO 400/800.
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Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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David Johnson

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Re: Lens for festivals

PostWed Feb 07, 2018 6:56 pm

Hi and thanks for the replies.

Yes sorry it is EF fit unit.
Thinking about it i would use the unit around 25 tot 50mtrs away from the stage, just focus on the stage event itself and stick with my 70D cameras when moving into the crowds.

Would it with say a Sigma 50-100mm F1.8 DC HSM Art then say add a Canon 2x II Extender EF Teleconverter, thinking it might reach the stage just getting the band and then push on onto a projector
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David Johnson

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Re: Lens for festivals

PostWed Feb 07, 2018 10:32 pm

Denny Smith wrote:I think a better situation is to leave the big Ursa in the Studio, and get the new Boradcast Camera ($3495) and a used HD ENG lens ($900), so total cost would be around $4500. Most event footage winds up on UTube or other internet streaming or Cable TV, so the Broadcast Camera 4K resolution, even on a 1-inch sensor, is more than adequate. The Ursa Shoulder Mount and EVF will fit the Broadcast camers.

I personally, would not want to be hauling a Big Ursa around on my shoulder or otherwise to cover an event, where fast movement and agility are required. The right tool for the job. ENG lenses are f/1.4 to 1.9, and the Broadcast is ISO 400/800.
Cheers


Your right Denny, when i have more funds that is what i will do, for now i only paid £1400 for the brand new big URSA, was sealed unopened from someone who had two given to them (it was their job position within a large corporation)

As its my fist big unit plus very new to this i though it might be a bit of an upgrade to the 70D Canons i use
(i have 3 x 70D and one 7D) hoping to gain more work as well as experience, doing work for free in local area for charities, local events that we might get exposure even if we do not get paid.
A few jobs we have done has helped and paid work is coming in.

Trying to get the most out of this unit before getting an upgrade to better lighter gear.
Two staff and just breaking even, (not paid myself yet for 6 months, luck the wife covers the bills) it is getting there slowly so any help and advice i am grateful for.

Thank you
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Ryan Payne

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Re: Lens for festivals

PostThu Feb 08, 2018 1:22 am

A quick look at the Q and A from B and H. For the teleconverter someone mentioned it may require the lens to be at 2.8 - 8 fstop. On top of that I'm not sure if you lose any light or not. For event work I'd lean on the 70-200 canon. Is it really that dark to need 1.8?
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rick.lang

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Re: Lens for festivals

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 5:54 pm

A 2x teleconverter costs you 2 stops of light, no? A 1.4x teleconverter costs you a stop of light.


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Howard Roll

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Re: Lens for festivals

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 6:25 pm

Indeed it does. I wouldn't even mess with the teleconverters.

Superzoom for daytime and a fast zoom or primes for night.
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David Johnson

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Re: Lens for festivals

PostSun Feb 11, 2018 3:40 am

Thanks Rick and Howard,
Will stay away from the teleconverters

We do a bit with our local Rubgy club and i asked if we could video the event yesterday and yes the picture was amazing using the Samyang 35mm lens, it was brighter than thought, i even dropped the ISO down the BM to 400 and still had back off on the lens too, so maybe a 2.5 - 3.5 would be ok. This testing is helping loads.

The only downside was i has not zoom at all, so now i need to find a zoom lens that zoom in and out smoothly
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rick.lang

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Lens for festivals

PostSun Feb 11, 2018 5:21 am

David, if you’re a sole operator of a single camera as I often am, having a 25-35mm prime eases the challenge of maintaining focus considerably. But of course, the ideal is having my Fujinon zoom with an additional operator. The last time I did this, I pulled focus and my assistant followed the action and guided the camera. It worked well most of the time. Usually my assistant pulls focus.

I’ve used a zoom alone but it really is difficult to move the camera while zooming and changing focus. I don’t recommend it. Focus takes priority of course if I can’t do all three functions myself. I have one hand on the Chrosziel Fluid Zoom control to focus and the other hand on the lens zoom stick and cradle the camera body with my arms to follow action.


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Denny Smith

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Re: Lens for festivals

PostSun Feb 11, 2018 5:45 am

David, a goood parfocal, smooth zoom lens *$19-20K) is going to cost more than a new Ursa Broadcast
Kit with a good used Fuji Servo Zoom lens ($7K). Still camera EF zooms are not normally “ smooth zooming” nor are they parfocal ( pneed to be refocused after zooming). The wide zooms like the Sigma 18-35 are fairly smoothand come close, but no real reach on the long end.

If you can deal with f/4.4-5.6, the Canon CompCt Servo Zoom 18-80 is under $6K
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Denny Smith
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David Johnson

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Re: Lens for festivals

PostMon Feb 12, 2018 7:15 pm

My best bet looking around is to wait till i can afford the new unit or go for an all in one kit.
Shame really when you think its such a beast of a unit but not good without the expense of a very high costly servo lens.

Maybe keep an eye for a used Canon CN-E 18-80mm Servo zoom lens, might do the trick unless anything similar comes along cheaper.

Edit:
would this work http://www.newsshooter.com/2016/02/18/c ... ter-pz-e1/
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rick.lang

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Lens for festivals

PostTue Feb 13, 2018 3:05 am

David, the utility of the 18-135mm photo zoom may depend upon how you’ll be using it due to the considerable iris ramping through the focal range. If you’re working in a smaller zoom range for a given shot, it may look alright. But going from a wide to a telephoto in one shot may not look good. At a festival it might work where the wide scene needs a wider aperture but when you zoom in on a face, the face could well be more brightly lit and compensate for the loss of light at the tele end.

Of course the zoom lens is not parfocal and relies on the Canon camera to adjust the focus as you zoom.

That neat attachment for the lens probably won’t work with a BMD camera if it requires communication with the Canon camera. Watching the video, I wasn’t sure if it really needed the Canon camera as an intermediary as long as you weren’t using the app for a remote control.


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David Johnson

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Re: Lens for festivals

PostThu Feb 15, 2018 7:28 pm

well that did not work well. The power zoom adapter PZ-E1 works great on the lens and on the canon 70D but the unit does not power on if not connect to a standard canon unit.

Next plan....
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rick.lang

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Re: Lens for festivals

PostFri Feb 16, 2018 6:32 am

Learning to dislike Canon...


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robert Hart

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Re: Lens for festivals

PostFri Feb 16, 2018 8:02 pm

David.

The B4-Mount for the URSA Mini 4K fits and works with the big URSA 4K PL so long as you are happy with 1920x1080 in windowed mode. Be aware that as I understand things, there are two models of the B4-Mount, one for the URSA Mini 4K and another for the URSA Mini 4.6K and URSA Mini Pro which has a different pattern of screw attachment.

I don't know the attachment arrangement for the big URSA EF model. Someone with an EF Model may be able to advise if the EF-Mount attaches with its four screws directly to the EF turret or attaches to an intermediate adaptor which itself is attached with six screws to the turret as is the case with the PL-Mount version. This clip was shot with a Fujinon ENG lens to windowed sensor.

There is no power output on the big URSA to drive the lens servo motors so it is manual only or using a special power adaptor to drive the lens servos.

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Denny Smith

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Re: Lens for festivals

PostFri Feb 16, 2018 9:16 pm

rick.lang wrote:Learning to dislike Canon...

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Rick, Welcome to my “anti-Canon” club. :roll:
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions

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