External mic directly to the BMCC

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Cthe47

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External mic directly to the BMCC

PostThu Feb 08, 2018 4:36 pm

Hello

How can I connect my NTG-2 mic to the BMCC directly without using an adapter. Whould this cable work?

Roland RCC-3-TRXF (The forum does not allow me to post a link. You may google it)

It has a female 3 pin XLR connector at one end and a male 1/4” TRS (wired balanced?) at the other end.

Mant thanks
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Denny Smith

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Re: External mic directly to the BMCC

PostThu Feb 08, 2018 5:58 pm

The BMCC Preamp is too low an output for most mics. You need to use a good preamp between pro XLR mics to get enough preamp level and feed the camera with a line level from the preamp.

If you want to give a direct mic connection a go, you need a balanced TRS to XLR cable.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Cthe47

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Re: External mic directly to the BMCC

PostThu Feb 08, 2018 7:05 pm

Thanks Denny

So this one (Roland RCC-3-TRXF) should work, right?

What preamp would you recommend? The cheapest one suitable for getting enough pream level for BMCC please.

Many thanks
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Cthe47

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Re: External mic directly to the BMCC

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 12:07 am

I was wondering if anyone knows what cables/connectors I should use to connect NTG-2 mic to Tascam DR-60 MKII, and then the Tascam to the camera (BMCC)?


Edit:
Update - It seems I have to use a recorder, record on it, and do the sync in the post; instead of recording on the camera. This is because the signal coming from the recorder to the camera via a 3.5mm to 1/4" cable will probably be "unbalanced".
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Robert Niessner

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Re: External mic directly to the BMCC

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 12:02 pm

The problem is not that the signal is unbalanced - because the cable is very short - the problem is that the output of the Tascam DR-60D MKII is not loud enough to have a good signal to noise ratio in the BMCC.
And the BMCC has some odd low frequency filtering going on in its audio section.

I had this combination of BMCC and Tascam. Just record on both and autosync in post.
Robert Niessner
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John Richard

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Re: External mic directly to the BMCC

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 2:41 pm

JuicedLink makes a small pre-amp that works well with the BMCC. Has XLR mic inputs and 1/4 TRS outputs to the BMCC. Provides very low S/N ratio audio result recorded to the in-camera files.
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Cthe47

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Re: External mic directly to the BMCC

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 5:00 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:The problem is not that the signal is unbalanced - because the cable is very short - the problem is that the output of the Tascam DR-60D MKII is not loud enough to have a good signal to noise ratio in the BMCC.
And the BMCC has some odd low frequency filtering going on in its audio section.

I had this combination of BMCC and Tascam. Just record on both and autosync in post.


Thanks for the comment. Yes I will do that. To record on the BMCC as well, how did you connect your Tascam to the camera? What cables/connectors?
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Cthe47

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Re: External mic directly to the BMCC

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 5:02 pm

John Richard wrote:JuicedLink makes a small pre-amp that works well with the BMCC. Has XLR mic inputs and 1/4 TRS outputs to the BMCC. Provides very low S/N ratio audio result recorded to the in-camera files.


The 1/4 TRS output would be amazing! But I can’t find shops that sell JuicedLink preamp.
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Denny Smith

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Re: External mic directly to the BMCC

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 5:22 pm

JuiceLinkmis out of the preamp business. I use the Sound Devices MidPre, older used models are available (check ebay), and the new model has internal recording as well as great preamps, with enough gain.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Brad Hurley

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Re: External mic directly to the BMCC

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 8:32 pm

Denny Smith wrote: I use the Sound Devices MidPre, older used models are available (check ebay), and the new model has internal recording as well as great preamps, with enough gain.
Cheers


The MixPre line is very popular among videographers, and for good reason; some people are using them for professional recordings of classical music as well (standards are very high in that realm, so if it's good enough for them...). The MixPre-3 is the smallest and lightest; the 6 has a few additional features and of course more inputs.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: External mic directly to the BMCC

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 9:07 pm

Cthe47 wrote:
Robert Niessner wrote:The problem is not that the signal is unbalanced - because the cable is very short - the problem is that the output of the Tascam DR-60D MKII is not loud enough to have a good signal to noise ratio in the BMCC.
And the BMCC has some odd low frequency filtering going on in its audio section.

I had this combination of BMCC and Tascam. Just record on both and autosync in post.


Thanks for the comment. Yes I will do that. To record on the BMCC as well, how did you connect your Tascam to the camera? What cables/connectors?


I had a technician of a music shop make me a special cable. I have to dig up the order from 2013 to find the specs.
Robert Niessner
LAUFBILDkommission
Graz / Austria
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Blackmagic Camera Blog (German):
http://laufbildkommission.wordpress.com

Read the blog in English via Google Translate:
http://tinyurl.com/pjf6a3m
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Howard Roll

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Re: External mic directly to the BMCC

PostSat Feb 10, 2018 12:00 am

This is the cable.

3.5 mm TRS to dual 1/4" TS

http://hosatech.com/product/cmp-150/

Pretty common just make sure you don't inadvertently get a Y cable or phase cancellation will ensue.
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Cthe47

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Re: External mic directly to the BMCC

PostSat Feb 10, 2018 12:32 am

Howard Roll wrote:This is the cable.

3.5 mm TRS to dual 1/4" TS

http://hosatech.com/product/cmp-150/

Pretty common just make sure you don't inadvertently get a Y cable or phase cancellation will ensue.


Brilliant. Thanks a lot.
I just don't understand why using a Y cable will result in phase cancellation? Yes, the two signals will be identical, but they go to two separate 1/4" jacks, not one.
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Howard Roll

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Re: External mic directly to the BMCC

PostSat Feb 10, 2018 7:16 am

Phase cancellation can happen in a couple of different places, electrically or accoustically. If you have perfect separation between the LR channels and mic 1 is hard panned left (or right) you could be fine with a Y cable so long as you are not using a second mic panned right (or left). Similarly you can't use the insert cable I posted to record dual mono from a single mic because you'll get acoustic (in air) phase cancellation unless you reverse the phase of one channel prior to recording.
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John Richard

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Re: External mic directly to the BMCC

PostSat Feb 10, 2018 2:20 pm

Denny Smith wrote:JuiceLinkmis out of the preamp business. I use the Sound Devices MidPre, older used models are available (check ebay), and the new model has internal recording as well as great preamps, with enough gain.
Cheers


Did not know this. Very sad as it was a great solution and easy on-board mounting. From what I'm reading, Zaxcom is creating a lot of problems with lawsuits for what seems like overly broad patents. Blocking Tascam products as well. JuicedLink was just a very small company started by Robert Rozack who filled some audio needs.
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Cthe47

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Re: Audio recording on both the recorder and the camera

PostMon Feb 12, 2018 11:16 pm

Update:

For those who have this combination for audio recording and want to record on the camera as well as the recorder:
mic with XLR output (e.g. NTG2) + recorder with XLR input (e.g. Tascam DR-60D) + camera with 1/4" balanced TRS jack (e.g. BMCC)

I asked a studio shop today about what type of cables/connectors gives the best result for connecting the mic (NTG2), the recorder (Tascam), and the camera (BMCC or BMPC-4k) to be able to record sound on both the recorder and the camera with the highest possible quality. They suggest using an XLR splitter, and a balanced jack lead.

This is their recommendation:
The best way to get full-quality audio to both the Blackmagic camera and the Tascam recorder is to power the mic via batteries. This allows you to use a standard XLR splitter cable, which you can then adapt to balanced TRS jacks. Basically, it would go:

1.jpg
1.jpg (7.25 KiB) Viewed 184 times

It’s important to note that the above will only work optimally if the TRS inputs are mic level – if they are only line-level, the sound will be super quiet.

For example:
2.jpg
2.jpg (25.44 KiB) Viewed 184 times

I haven't tried it yet.
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Denny Smith

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Re: External mic directly to the BMCC

PostTue Feb 13, 2018 6:37 am

I disagree, the BMCC. If preamp does not have enough gain to support the NTG2 Mic, with an additional load placed on it by the Tascam recorder.
Denny Smith
SHA Productions

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