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Noob question : Why Fusion ?

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Sjur Pollen

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Re: Noob question : Why Fusion ?

PostWed Feb 21, 2018 7:09 pm

bill890 wrote:
I am completely new to VFX and I am wondering what the following statement does mean:

"where your Alembic files aren't referenced and readed from files ....."


Bill


I think he means that if you import an alembic scene file to fusion, it does not update in fusion if you make changes to the original file (in your 3d software.) In Fusion, the data from the alembic scene is ported into the .comp file, and not read from the original alembic file. If you change your alembic scene in your 3d software, you have to import it to fusion all over again and manually reconnect nodes, shaders etc.

(BTW, since you say you are completely new to vfx, an alembic file is a format used to export complex 3d geometry/animation from a 3d software to for instance a compositing software like fusion.)
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daniel.partzsch

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Re: Noob question : Why Fusion ?

PostThu Feb 22, 2018 7:16 am

Noel Froger wrote:Don't forget than After Effect just fall appart the more your project goes complex.
On every project with it there's a point where you just regret haven't picked a node based one. Plus the linear workflow is a joke.

BUT, there's a point where fusion just fall appart too where you regret not using nuke or AE. For me this is where your Alembic files aren't referenced and readed from files
or when you need (95% of the time) a project file outputing different time range and sequences (hello AE or Nuke, bye fusion)
or the horrible exr channel/workflow
or working linear with every tool compatibles

So yeah each App have their weakpoint...
If I remember correctly, alembic files are updated automatically if you're import them via a tool separately instead of using the import scene option. The downside is that you have to place them manually in your scene I think though... But at least you have the anchors on the right spot then.

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daniel.partzsch

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Re: Noob question : Why Fusion ?

PostThu Feb 22, 2018 8:00 am

I really like Fusion for its quality and the nodal workflow and I also can see that there are lots of tools that would enable you to work more often on mograph like projects as well. I mean you definitely can do it but for me a couple of thinks are just too cumbersome when it comes to animation and timing things:

1. I am a visual person who needs to see what's going on. While in the flow you have a nice overview that's definitely not the case for the timeline. The lines are just too close to each other so that I can often not really tell on which line I am currently working. Maybe I am just used to the ae diamonds but for me the key frames are just too thin. When I am placing the timeline indicator on top of them I can not even see them anymore and grabbing them gets harder as well so that I often find myself moving the indicator away. Sliding keyframes around to me also doesn't feel very robust somehow. Could be a personal thing.

2. Despite working with nodes is certainly great on its own, for a timeline I just prefer a fixed bottom to top order like in ae. Evertime I need to make adjustments to a tool my selection ist lost and the next time I select the tools I want to animate the order is different. I know you can use filters and certain criteria to define the order however I don't want to manually click 10plus tools evertime in the right order all over again. I wish you could store ore lock a selection (order) somehow.

3. I often need to make loops so I need to be able to easily treat a complete tool setup as one footage element just like a precomp in after effects which I can easily reuse, cut and slide around as desired. The only way I know how to do this in fusion is using the keyframes on a time stretcher node which unfortunately renders super slow imo. Retiming stuff in general is always taking its time to render which makes it hard to just quickly tinker around with it.

4. An essential part of my workflow in After Effects ist using Keysmith to adjust the velocity values of multiple keyframes at once without needing to go to the graph editor. Would be great to have the option in the timeline as well to adjust the handle lengths and angles of multiple keyframes at once.

For these kind of projects I think ae is definitely the better option to go. Although, as said, because of the quality I would very much prefer to use fusion more often. Maybe someone has some better practice examples for these points...?
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alan bovine

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Re: Noob question : Why Fusion ?

PostThu Feb 22, 2018 1:05 pm

daniel.partzsch wrote:1. I am a visual person who needs to see what's going on. While in the flow you have a nice overview that's definitely not the case for the timeline. The lines are just too close to each other so that I can often not really tell on which line I am currently working. Maybe I am just used to the ae diamonds but for me the key frames are just too thin. When I am placing the timeline indicator on top of them I can not even see them anymore and grabbing them gets harder as well so that I often find myself moving the indicator away. Sliding keyframes around to me also doesn't feel very robust somehow. Could be a personal thing.



Right click in the timeline and select "All line size" and set it to Large og Huge to your preference.

daniel.partzsch wrote:2. Despite working with nodes is certainly great on its own, for a timeline I just prefer a fixed bottom to top order like in ae. Evertime I need to make adjustments to a tool my selection ist lost and the next time I select the tools I want to animate the order is different. I know you can use filters and certain criteria to define the order however I don't want to manually click 10plus tools evertime in the right order all over again. I wish you could store ore lock a selection (order) somehow.


No remedies for this one; Fusion just works differently than AE. Come to love the node based view of working and layering in the Flow instead of the timeline and you'll be speedier than ever.

daniel.partzsch wrote:3. I often need to make loops so I need to be able to easily treat a complete tool setup as one footage element just like a precomp in after effects which I can easily reuse, cut and slide around as desired. The only way I know how to do this in fusion is using the keyframes on a time stretcher node which unfortunately renders super slow imo. Retiming stuff in general is always taking its time to render which makes it hard to just quickly tinker around with it.


* Precomp using the right-click Cache-to-disk option, then add a time offset / speed node to retime.
* Precomp using the saver and loader approach (more sane option) then add a time offset / speed node to retime.
* Duplicate node with time offset.

daniel.partzsch wrote:4. An essential part of my workflow in After Effects ist using Keysmith to adjust the velocity values of multiple keyframes at once without needing to go to the graph editor. Would be great to have the option in the timeline as well to adjust the handle lengths and angles of multiple keyframes at once.


You can still manupulate the majority of the attributes of a curve simultaneously, just not the tangents specifically. But you can set the ease in and out using the right click Smooth/linear/Flat etc option

And you can hit Shift-B to do some pretty complex transformation of your curves using the box tool. Including weird perspective(!) transformations.


daniel.partzsch wrote:For these kind of projects I think ae is definitely the better option to go. Although, as said, because of the quality I would very much prefer to use fusion more often. Maybe someone has some better practice examples for these points...?


Fusion is RIDDLED with hidden options to make it work more or less exactly how you want it to. Spend a little time right clicking and you'll find a lot of goodies not mentioned in the manuals...
Last edited by alan bovine on Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sjur Pollen

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Re: Noob question : Why Fusion ?

PostThu Feb 22, 2018 2:12 pm

For me the best thing about Fusion is that I achieve flow state each and every time I use it. *Ba-dum ching!*
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Marc Gasser

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Re: Noob question : Why Fusion ?

PostWed Feb 28, 2018 12:42 am

@Alex Uzan:

First few weeks in Fusion, you will miss all the 3rd party plugins you bought for After Effects.
A few weeks later you realize that you can build all the things you are missing from AE plugins right inside Fusion and with Reactor you just got an amazing resource for "plugins".

After years on AfterEffects / OSX I switched to Linux, due the lack of missing Nvidia drivers on OSX so I was forced to learn Fusion. First few weeks where totally pain in the a**, now I cant imagine how I did all this things in After Effects.

As all other people saying, small company just cant afford a Nuke license....

Go for it.
Fusion rocks.
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