Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

Wayne, kudos, you certainly know better than I. I’m more focused on what BMD is offering in the limited time I have left on the planet and trying to make the most of that!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well Rick, some of this is just one firmware update away, some one camera update (one year) to improve your life, and the lives of future generations. I'm wondering what this raw over the micro production is, and if a new 4k s16 model if that is coming (might get a good buy for me if it has some form of internal.recording and imagine dome cameras will come down in price when the new 4k pocket ships). A new micro production replacing the existing Micros with new s16 could reach 14 stops native.

I'm trying to figure out (based on dimensions) whether this came is going to fit in to Movi M5 cage. Theoretically cage size is big enough to hold BMPCC 4K but I'm not sure whether it will be possible to get it balanced. Does anyone from BM played with such setup already?

Leon, you complain too much. Going back and looking at the couple of innocent sentences that sparkeded neurotic over reaction which seems to revolve around actual selfishness. You are getting your camera likely when you expect to, whatever they firmware update too, so no problem.

Now, if people listened they would know that the camera has an alledged Sony chip that usually carries an HDR video mode (that chip does). The chip has 14 bit mode, which could slow for 24/25/30 for 4k (going on chatter I'm seeing out there). That, like the chip in the micro production camera, the full lattitude might be getting clipped in the conversion from internal 14 bit to 12 bit mode. Meaning at least one more stop (maybe not completely usable) could be jigged out of it. Yes all this STUFF is useful for future generations if you just stop concentrating on yourselves to support it.

They talk about wide dynamic range, 13 stops is not wide dynamic range. Wide dynamic range is a term used above high dynamic range, so is there something they have up the sleeve here?

Pays to do some reading before complaining about very little.

As far as I'm concerned, this is still the sort of 4k pocket we could had 3 years ago. But despite that, if you don't like my faintly glowing appreciation and recommendation of the 4k pocket here... Now, there are a few of you that just storm around every uplifting ray of sunshine around here.

The pocket is not enough to stop all competitors, but it is at least in the zone
I don't consider the image as good as the old pocket, if it had been (and HDR might get it there) then it would be more in the zone again.

Also, who said resolve cost them $299, that it's actually $1000, or $299, of material value? Instead 9f $10-$20.

Dwane, no, they act like it's a cult. Any truth that challenges their fantasy is not to be tolerated (cult). We would be stuck at the original cinema camera if everybody had gone crazy like this when it came out. We would not even likely have cameras at all if people had gone crazy before the camera was invented. Cult.

Now, I'd better get out here before people turn up with a sharman rattlers, or their supporters with the soccer rattlers.

BM has made a good step to avoid the normal approaching oblivion companies face, but the battle is not one yet. There is still room underneath.

Justin, like Stu said, 4:1 should be sweet. If everything was set up right, ProRes should be sweet. But the reality is colour science starts before light hits the sender, the website is tweaked with performance, then the read out is, and the processing. So, it all effects the image, colours it, the term used in the hifi world. You then have to process it (which ProRes does to some extent itself). But depending on how they set things up, will affect the look. So look, and experiment with the images to see if it will do the extremes you want, and if ProRes or Raw is a suitable starting block. Say, like I did on one of my early jobs. I saw a baptismal in an notch like enclave is the church, with beautiful thin stain glass windows streaming coloured light through in the subtle darkness, so I got that. But would the pocket 4k handle that lattitude with descent colour volume to usefully lift in post to appear as beautiful in real life (I would like to think it would with what I'm advocating).

You might think it is over kill, but testing cameras and reviewing footage before deciding which to use for what, is professional. Don't trust my or other's opinions here, get other's footage and examine it to see if it does what you need. Then untouched samples to grade, while you are figuring how good hands on it is. Getting untouched samples is an issue. The concern is how far you can push things in order to get more than what you need. If the performance response curves are so far off, you can just push it enough to where you want, then what happens when the situation is not good, or you want to do more/different, and need the extra head room. For me, the old pocket had a lovable look I could live with (not seeing that here yet) so grading to some different look wasn't such an issue on the low end.

Any idea what the sync-fueature on the 3.5mm microphone socket accepts?
An LTC signal?
On the left or the right stereo side?
Will the other stereo channel stay usable?
What electrical level would the signal need to have?

With the new Prores RAW codec, it look really interesting !!!

What is the difference between Prores RAW and RAW? Is it the container or more than that?

I’ve been holding off commenting about this beast as I gather my thoughts together over the last couple of days.

So In no particular order here they are:

Pocket? Really, this camera is significantly bigger than its predecessor and will not fit in any pocket I have in my clothing. There is nothing discrete about this camera and people are going to know you are filming them. Mini BMCC would seem to be a better name.

The crop factor from the old Pocket has gone, with the exception I suspect of the windowed HD mode although no details of the crop during that mode have been released, they will though presumably be different from the original camera. A full MFT sensor of course means no crop in other resolutions, but what about MFT lens distortions that are corrected ‘in camera’ by Panasonic and co. Does the new Pocket apply these, or maybe Resolve? One of the advantages with the crop was that it only used the middle areas of the lens and missed most of the problems.

The lack of an EVF. For me this is a big issue as I have to wear glasses to read these days and I will have to wear them to use this camera which will be an absolute pain (I also commented on a thread about this). There are plenty of tiny hot shoe mounted ones which could be used if there was a way to attach them, but the idea seems never to have been on the horizon for BM.

The better, brighter touch screen is what we were all asking for, not sure about bigger. Maybe this is the same one as on the UMP so economies of scale may be a factor. And that stills button is sweet!

Grant said that getting these cameras completed in time had been very difficult and there is no doubt that this camera will be spectacular when it is released. Where as the original was in its function quite a basic camera, this new one does everything, and then some. Which is great, but I feel that it loses the ethos of the original Pocket, and becomes a smallish fully featured Cinema Camera. The original Pocket was a ‘no brainer’ impulse buy and I love it. I am not quite so sure about this one, very nice though it appears. At nearly twice the price, and four times the volume (how much heavier?). A pocket it is not. I know Resolve is included, but I think that is to soften the cost.

I think that this camera will sell in droves, and I look forward to more information as we get nearer the release date.

Please don’t get me wrong I really like what BM is doing in the industry, I just feel that this is not the BMPCC v2 I wanted. Perhaps I will grow to really like it.
I hope so.

Steve.

I completely agree with the pocket aspect.
For that I'm seriously thinking of keeping one of my Pocket Cinema Cameras for use with the Panasonic 14-42 power zoom as that combination DOES fit a pocket and is as stealthy as any tourist with a small point-and-shoot still camera.

Being much wider then even the huge GH3/GH4/GH4R/GH5/GH5s,
(I started with the much more compact GH1, then GH2. They fit my hand like a glove. Fitting 3 of them inside
a single camera bag instead of switching lenses.)
I will have to see how well it works out on a shoulder rig.
It could well be, that the monitor is even too big when it's in front of your face.
And how well a Zoom H6 still works as a counter-weight. Maybe it needs to be joined
by some NP-F batteries to keep the rig balanced.

For any handheld work I will keep my GH5.
With IBIS and an entire day on just one battery that's a no-brainer.

So that leaves the BMPC4K as a tripod + shoulder rig camera.
Being able to supply +12V and not need any special solutions to have a backup battery in case
this supply cable fails (e.g. battery grip or Atomos power station on the Panasonic GH line) is a great plus.
Also the external USB recording will completely eleminate the need for an external Atomos recorder for 3h+ live shows. If that fails, the operator can still react quickly and record to SD-card for the remainder of the act.
Hopefully there will be a choice of an unclean HDMI feed, so me as an operator can see the battery+media+recording+focus status as well on a central multiview of all cameras and wake up the operator via voice interkom in case he/she misses a problem.
On the tripod I'll certainly experiment with time code via the 3.5mm jack for syncing up multicams.
Sadly the GH4/GH4R/GH5/GH5s allows for GPS sync via the Android app but the BMPC4K will have
to use some LTC. Hopefully I can rig something up with a Raspberry Pi and a GPS to generate LTC.
That Raspberry Pi will have to be there anyway as a voice interkom system.
(The Blackmagic Tally and interkom -solutions only work via SDI and a Blackmagic switcher.
So they are of no use to a BMPC4K and for a multicam shoot that is not recording for live broadcast
and thus only has a simple multiview but not full switcher.)

I
The lack of an EVF. For me this is a big issue as I have to wear glasses to read these days and I will have to wear them to use this camera which will be an absolute pain (I also commented on a thread about this). There are plenty of tiny hot shoe mounted ones which could be used if there was a way to attach them, but the idea seems never to have been on the horizon for BM.

EVF for film recording?

You never used an actual film camera then?

Steve

I definitely think Pocket is the wrong name for this one. Really this is the new Blackmagic Cinema Camera. The replacement for the original 2.5k. Which is still great, since this is a better replacement.

As for an evf, just get a Zacuto one.

I hope BM finally will upgrade old bmpcc to v1.2 with existing 4K S16 sensor inside (better 13-14stops). Do not want to sell my S16 cine line of lenses (fixed Angenieux, Zeiss, classic cine zooms etc) It's possible to make better cooling approach to 4K sensor than very simple one I have seen in my bmpcc.) (May be it possible to make it a little bit dippers and move heating gradient flow on top of the camera) For documentary, short films old one 16mm camera was the best and finally I personally expect to see something close to exterior (in old dimensions and stуle plus moving screen) as to that of (sony6500) approach.

This one is another class of camera. Great. Not expensive. #Outofpocket.

The pocket is not enough to stop all competitors, but it is at least in the zone
I don't consider the image as good as the old pocket, if it had been (and HDR might get it there) then it would be more in the zone again.

How are you judging the image quality?

The pocket is not enough to stop all competitors, but it is at least in the zone
I don't consider the image as good as the old pocket, if it had been (and HDR might get it there) then it would be more in the zone again.

How are you judging the image quality?

Don't you know? There's a screen shot of a Jpeg from a guy I know who knows this chick. You gotta love ole' crazy Wayne coming on here calling everyone "Cult" members...it keeps the forum entertaining for us.

Seriously though people are grading someone's Jpeg posted online from NAB, and making their judgments on image quality from there.

The internets can be a funny place.

The pocket is not enough to stop all competitors, but it is at least in the zone
I don't consider the image as good as the old pocket, if it had been (and HDR might get it there) then it would be more in the zone again.

How are you judging the image quality?

Yeah I'm curious too please explain Wayne...

Leon, you complain too much.

Thank you for pointing this out. I shall keep this in mind.
I do not know what I would do without people like you in my life.

Marcus, thanks for the morning smile: room in your camera bag for three GHx cameras with mounted lenses so you don’t have to change a lens and the GHx will be used because the battery lasts all day, but no room to carry a few extra Canon LP-E6N batteries and one big BMPCC4K with a zoom lens and leave the other cameras and lenses at home?

It’s perfectly fine for you to use the gear you prefer, no problem, but your critical post read like the script for a standup comedian’s one act play. I enjoyed the irony or satire. I hope it was satire.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For my part: Thank you, Blackmagic. You are pushing the envelope in terms of price and image quality, and I can't wait to get my hands on a Pocket 4k. It's not perfect - no camera is - but it fills in so many needs for a lot of shooters, myself included.

Honestly, my biggest concern: can you produce enough to meet demand without QC issues? I'm excited to get one!

room in your camera bag for three GHx cameras with mounted lenses so you don’t have to change a lens and the GHx will be used because the battery lasts all day, but no room to carry a few extra Canon LP-E6N batteries

The GH5 lasts a day and is bulky.
The GH1/GH2 had smaller batteries and smaller bodies back then.
I had 3 of them for 3-angle interviews (wide shot + 2x over shoulder)
and since I had them anyway, I used them for very convenient still photography (medium range zoom, tele, wide angle) back then. When something interesting happens, just grab the correct body and still catch it before it's over.

I have room to carry extra LP-E6N but it's a step down from the GH5 to run&gun and suddenly have to change the battery at an inconvenient time.

I'm not sure if this question has already been asked, but will the BMPCC specific Metabones to EF speedbooster still work on this camera? (The sensor is a little bigger right?) I would love to get this camera, but I only have EF lenses and having to get a new Metabones is going to make this more of a $2,000 camera for me :/

I was an early purchaser of tbe Pocket..and remember the issues with black and white spots .. i look forward to this camera but will not be an early adopter until it matures and some 3rd party accessories hit market.There will be a need for an external viewfinder attachment or sunshade device. I will also want to see if it will fit on the new DJI Ronin S. Or other gimbal. I still applaude the new product and price point.

This camera can only be compared to other BMD cameras, RED, Alexa, high end Sony, etc. IT'S $1295!!!!!!!! You'd have to refi your house or sell your first born to get one of those other cameras. A kid can cut grass for the summer and pick up one of these when it's available!! I don't understand who these people are that are complaining.... They show up to the forum at every camera release. Are they trolls?

I'm not sure if this question has already been asked, but will the BMPCC specific Metabones to EF speedbooster still work on this camera? (The sensor is a little bigger right?) I would love to get this camera, but I only have EF lenses and having to get a new Metabones is going to make this more of a $2,000 camera for me :/

Unfortunately, the original will not work.

But both the Ultra and XL should work I think, no?

The chip has 14 bit mode, which could slow for 24/25/30 for 4k (going on chatter I'm seeing out there).

The Sony data sheet, only lists a 24 fps readout for 14 bit, and in a particular resolution unsuitable for DCI 4K:

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products ... cjk_e.html

For those of you who are not regular RSN readers or contributors, here's a 15 minute NAB interview with Grant who talks about the new camera and also, his impressions of ProRes RAW:

petty.PNG (298.84 KiB) Viewed 27010 times

https://www.redsharknews.com/production ... resolve-15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... QHH-o_rmK8

I think BM should remove word "pocket" from the name.
Pocket size is Sony RX 100 or anything smaller, not this camera.
They can says- it's camera for small pockets when it comes to price though

For those of you who are not regular RSN readers or contributors, here's a 15 minute NAB interview with Grant who talks about the new camera and also, his impressions of ProRes RAW:

petty.PNG

https://www.redsharknews.com/production ... resolve-15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... QHH-o_rmK8

Don't really get what Grant is talking abut regarding ProRes RAW.
It's RAW data, just compressed like CDNG. No idea what is this thing about LUTs etc.

For those of you who are not regular RSN readers or contributors, here's a 15 minute NAB interview with Grant who talks about the new camera and also, his impressions of ProRes RAW:

petty.PNG

https://www.redsharknews.com/production ... resolve-15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... QHH-o_rmK8

Grant says is relation to the BMD philosophy: "I want to free them from the big old Post houses where the guy that ran it was Psychopath who's only claim to fame was a big bank loan!"

Crikey, I hope he's not talking about me! HaHa!

The lack of an EVF. For me this is a big issue as I have to wear glasses to read these days and I will have to wear them to use this camera which will be an absolute pain (I also commented on a thread about this). There are plenty of tiny hot shoe mounted ones which could be used if there was a way to attach them, but the idea seems never to have been on the horizon for BM.

Add an EVF and the price would go up a few hundred or more. There are enough of us that would be fine without an EVF and the lower price. Me included. I think you are overlooking that you can attach an EVF, monitor, etc to this... so you can still add one, just doesnt come built in. So give me a $1000 camera, let me add whatever I want as I rig it up.

At nearly twice the price, and four times the volume (how much heavier?). A pocket it is not. I know Resolve is included, but I think that is to soften the cost.

Nearly 2x the price? It is the same price... what am I missing? It is $1000. You get a $300 studio license with it. I guess maybe they could have just offered it at $1000 and no studio, but its far easier to give a license to software than take off $300. Most people buying these will want to use Resolve.. some will not of course. But that it comes with it, and how good 15 is (or will be when it is final) is a bonus to me as I was going to buy the Studio license anyway. Is it really 4x the mass? I thought about 2x, but I havent held either in my hand so not sure. Agreed though that this is not a pocket. Actually, unless I am missing something, it is a better 4K camera than the current $3K 4K cinema camera they sell. So like someone else said, they should have just called it the new 4K Cinema Camera.

Hi Justin,

I said four times the volume, I don't know how heavy it is, but I can imagine. Most of the EVFs I have looked at via this forum cost more than the camera. I was hoping to user a cheaper consumer one as it would only be for framing.

As to the cost. Here in Australia I think my pocket cost about AU$1100, this new one is AU$1900 near as, which is still fantastic value without Resolve. It is though a fully featured cinema camera, and in a different league to the original pocket.

Steve

Has anyone noticed (unless I am gravely misktaken) that this camera, on paper at least, meets the requirements for Netflix partner productions?

I've just started a separate thread called: "Things that I wish the great new camera that you all want to talk about had that it doesn't".

It's also the perfect place to dive deeper into the hot button issue: "Amazing specs, incredible price but I could never shoot with a camera that looked like that, what was Grant thinking!!??"

Marcus, you’re a good man. Appreciate your earlier response. I was just having some fun with you about that stand-up comic routine. Forgive me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The internets can be a funny place.

As I often say, the world is a playground for idiots. Keep smiling

For those of you who are not regular RSN readers or contributors, here's a 15 minute NAB interview with Grant who talks about the new camera and also, his impressions of ProRes RAW:

petty.PNG

https://www.redsharknews.com/production ... resolve-15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... QHH-o_rmK8

Grant says is relation to the BMD philosophy: "I want to free them from the big old Post houses where the guy that ran it was Psychopath who's only claim to fame was a big bank loan!"

Crikey, I hope he's not talking about me! HaHa!

I'm sure he's not talking about JUST you

Oh, Now, you all want to to talk to me. You know I've got a life don't you? I can't just spend all day long typing replies to you guys.

Let's see if I don't miss anybody out.

The pocket is not enough to stop all competitors, but it is at least in the zone
I don't consider the image as good as the old pocket, if it had been (and HDR might get it there) then it would be more in the zone again.

How are you judging the image quality?

color, tonality.

The pocket is not enough to stop all competitors, but it is at least in the zone
I don't consider the image as good as the old pocket, if it had been (and HDR might get it there) then it would be more in the zone again.

How are you judging the image quality?

Don't you know? There's a screen shot of a Jpeg from a guy I know who knows this chick. You gotta love ole' crazy Wayne coming on here calling everyone "Cult" members...it keeps the forum entertaining for us.

Seriously though people are grading someone's Jpeg posted online from NAB, and making their judgments on image quality from there.

The internets can be a funny place.

Seriously, if you can't................ Nothing crazy about it, but crazy you would. Typical self denial c.... behaviour.

The pocket is not enough to stop all competitors, but it is at least in the zone
I don't consider the image as good as the old pocket, if it had been (and HDR might get it there) then it would be more in the zone again.

How are you judging the image quality?

Yeah I'm curious too please explain Wayne...

Just did. What's this asking again??

Leon, you complain too much.

Thank you for pointing this out. I shall keep this in mind.
I do not know what I would do without people like you in my life.

I humbly thank you for this Leon.

The chip has 14 bit mode, which could slow for 24/25/30 for 4k (going on chatter I'm seeing out there).

The Sony data sheet, only lists a 24 fps readout for 14 bit, and in a particular resolution unsuitable for DCI 4K:

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products ... cjk_e.html

Didn't stop Arrii from making a living doing it. So don't you want rhe option of an extra nice mode along side dci modes? What's the point?

What screen shot, what chick. Now you guys can .... off.

Wow, record time. It really is a lot quicker to just treat people like tossers. Wow, you guys are really teaching me something. Can I get you in your handle contract negotiations for me, just got to avoid anything technical.

The lack of an EVF. For me this is a big issue as I have to wear glasses to read these days and I will have to wear them to use this camera which will be an absolute pain (I also commented on a thread about this). There are plenty of tiny hot shoe mounted ones which could be used if there was a way to attach them, but the idea seems never to have been on the horizon for BM.

Really? The ones from Canon EOS-M, Nikon 1, and Olympus E-PL all have their own proprietary connectors, and among them, only Olympus VF-2 had cable connection, instead of pins hidden in their modified ISO 518 hot shoe. Also, usually these external EVF for stills are only XGA = 1024x768 (advertised as 2.36 million dots). Even the SXGA ones (3.68 million dots) are rare, and tend to be firmly attached to the camera.

And with HDTV resolution, BMD does produce one of the higher resolution EVF ones out there, for Ursa.

Oh, I missed one

idiots. Keep smiling

Me too Kim.

The issue with using BM’s excellent EVF with a HDMI on the new Pocket (or any HDMI only camera) is you need a SDI/HDMI Converter (another box with power needs). On the up side, the Wooden Camera mod kit makes the EVF nice and compact. It would be grand, if BM makes a HDMI, 7.2 VDC version of their EVF.
Cheers

Thank you thank BM for adding RAW stills! Yes we've always been able to pick out a RAW frames from hundreds but this is so much more efficient

Craig, finally looked at the RedShark interview you posted where Grant discusses ProRes raw at about 6:36 into the video. Grant makes the point that ProRes raw is missing the colour science that BMD includes in their cameras and in Resolve.

Difficult to judge the “problem” until we can actually work with ProRes raw in concert with Resolve, but I think he’s glossing over a potential benefit of what ProRes raw HQ is about and that is it appears to be applying efficient ProRes compression algorithms to a single channel of presumably lossless 12bit raw data... with the missing colour science applied by the post production software according to the particular camera profile that generated the ProRes raw HQ file.

Yes we have lossless compression on CinemaDNG and we have lossy but ‘visually lossless’ compression with CDNG 3:1 and 4:1 raw that matches the space savings of ProRes raw, but at this point I’m thinking the detail of ProRes raw HQ will match the detail of uncompressed CDNG raw at a considerable savings in space.

I may be missing his argument so apologies if I’ve misinterpreted Grant. The important takeaway for me is that BMD will be considering ProRes raw/HQ where all these things will be discussed and balanced.

And I still wonder if a ProRes XQ will emerge from Apple and what will it mean if ProRes raw HQ is already 12bit raw. Is that waiting for 14bit sensor data or 14bit log data?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Deleted