BMPCC 4K - lenses question

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Him-ch

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BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostTue Jul 31, 2018 7:51 pm

Absolutely new to Black Magic products, have preordered the forthcoming BMPCC 4K. I plan to buy either a 17mm 1.8 PRO and 75mm 1.7 Olympus or a Olympus 12-40 F2.8 zoom and the 75mm..

My question I will be newish to movie camera. I used to have a Sony Handycam years ago. Which lenses does every one use the most Fixed or zoom? I want to take holiday video (people, landscape), sport (paragliding/motor-sport).

Is the M.ZUIKO ED 40-150MM F2.8 PRO too big - not good for video?

Looking forward to your thoughts I will appreciate your help in deciding.
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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostTue Jul 31, 2018 8:32 pm

I think you are better off with the Zoom, also consider the Panny/Leica 12-60 Zoom, gives you more reach, and this Zoom is parfocal and has very quiet focus/iris motors. It a,so has OS to help steady long shots.
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Alex Delfont

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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostTue Jul 31, 2018 9:23 pm

Hi

If you are taking mainly holiday and travel videos mostly for the memories there may be more suitable cameras out there? Like the Panasonic micro four thirds cameras? Have you considered them?

They have a lot of features that are helpful for those situations, the G85 for instance, IBIS, weatherproof, articulated screen, time-lapse features etc.

But if you are set on the Blackmagic look, then consider a zoom maybe. I got by with the Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8 for a long time on its own. It is easily wide enough for any landscape, and you can get a bit closer to subjects on the long end and get reasonably shallow depth of field. It also has OIS so if you are doing handheld stuff it will help a lot. If you plan to just use the BMPCC4k with a non stabilised lens and handheld, its going to be shaky.
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Him-ch

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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostWed Aug 01, 2018 2:06 am

Interesting replies thank you, food for thought. So it seems zoom with stabilisation would be better. I would of course do some handheld as well as with a monopod or tripod.
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rick.lang

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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostWed Aug 01, 2018 5:43 pm

Look around this section the forum as this same question has been discussed or the other threads will have relevant information. Handheld without stabilization pretty much means you should be shooting with a fairly wide angle such as the zooms starting at 12mm. Be wary of anything that has a long zoom range if you expect it to give you good results handheld. Fine when you’re on a tripod.


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Him-ch

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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostThu Aug 02, 2018 5:03 pm

rick.lang wrote:Look around this section the forum as this same question has been discussed or the other threads will have relevant information. Handheld without stabilization pretty much means you should be shooting with a fairly wide angle such as the zooms starting at 12mm. Be wary of anything that has a long zoom range if you expect it to give you good results handheld. Fine when you’re on a tripod.


Thanks Rick, I am thinking now of a 12mm/30mm/75mm so three fixed lenses or the 12-40 2.8 and the 75mm.

I visit a shop tomorrow to try out these combinations and decide.
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rick.lang

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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostThu Aug 02, 2018 5:31 pm

Looking forward to your findings.


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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostThu Aug 02, 2018 5:48 pm

The only 30mm MFT lens I know of, is the Sigma Art. If going with Primes, you want them to match, so get 12, 25 and 75 Oly lens set, or the 15, 25, and 42.5 Panny/Leica set, which has excellent IQ. The PL 42.5 is a very fast, idea portrait focal length lens. The 25mm is close to a Normal FOV and either thr 13 or 15 will give you a nice wild shot.

Other options using native MFT manual lenses are the 10mm, 25 ( or 35mm), and 50mm SLR Hyperprime set, which are all manual lenses, with cine focus gears. Or the Voightlander Norton MFT Primes, 10.5mm, 17.5, 25 and 58mm set, but they are more expensive. Duclos offers a Cine mod version of thr Voights also. Last, yiu can still get the Veydra Mini Primes, while the last, in 12mm, 25, 35, 60 and 85mm, which a,so have focus gears, same size front filter (77/80mm) and are excellent cine type lenses.
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Him-ch

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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostThu Aug 02, 2018 7:04 pm

The 30mm is the Olympus M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 30 mm 1:3.5 Macro, so slightly longer than a 50mm equivalent.
The M.Zuiko ED 17mm f1.2 PRO 1:1.2 schwarz is equivalent 35mm
The Olympus M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 75 mm 1:1:8 = 150mm equivalent.

On my Fuji GF system I use mostly 45/63/110mm which equates to 35/50/90 in 35mm terms. Hence the above choice of Olympus.

It would be cheaper to buy the Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm PRO and the 75mm - some say that would be a better choce, I cannot judge yet.
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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostThu Aug 02, 2018 8:43 pm

Yes, forgot about the 30mm f/3.5 Macro, but that is going to be a mighty slow lens, good outdoors, but not necessarily a good overall “long normal” shooting lens.
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Him-ch

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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostFri Aug 03, 2018 1:38 pm

Decision made. I bought a secondhand 1.8 75mm and will buy the 2.8 12-40 along with the pre-ordered camera. I tried both lenses this morning in Movie and stills mode in the shop. Had a long conversation with the shop owner about what he uses and recommends.
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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostFri Aug 03, 2018 4:42 pm

Good, that should cover most bases, and get you started. Both are optically good lenses.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostSat Aug 04, 2018 8:24 am

Thank you Denny,

I appreciate your comments. I think I made the right decision as a start. What would you say about the 40-150 zoom and 1.4 converter (range equiv. 112-420mm. Not knowing anything definite I would say this is probably a tripod/table tripod only lens. Knowing what you know would you use such lens for video?

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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostSat Aug 04, 2018 5:57 pm

The 40-150 on it own is doable, but the longer the lens, the harder it is to hold a steady image. For long lenses like that, you need an oversized, stable tripod, that has enough mass to dampen the setup to get a stable image. I tend to stay with shorter focal lengths, unless you need the reach for something like nature photography.
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Him-ch

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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostSat Aug 04, 2018 6:47 pm

Sounds like a challenge. I have a Gitzo carbon tripod with Novoflex head. I may just hang back on that lens and see what happens with the other two.

Thamks for the advice.

Cheers Stephen
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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostSun Aug 05, 2018 2:50 am

That would be good, start slow, and see what the camera and these lenses will do. You can always do a HD window for a Zoom in Tele effect.
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rick.lang

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BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostSun Aug 05, 2018 5:30 am

It’s true that “a man’s reach should exceed his grasp,” but cinema motion picture cameras are quite different than stills photography. Yes there are long lenses used in motion pictures like an Angie 25-250mm Zoom but the total rig likely weighs as much as I do to keep that steady. Of course there are even much longer lenses but all I see are the pictures of the lenses, never the motion video they produce.

On a small camera on a small rig, I’d be wary of going all the way to 140mm. On my URSA Mini I try to stay within 110mm with my Fujinon using the tripod. Optically you’ll get a decent image but it is not at its best when I’ve gone all the way to 150mm. Again no issue with a stills camera with a 1/8000” shutter but motion pictures with a 1/48” shutter are a different animal.


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Him-ch

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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostSun Aug 05, 2018 8:10 am

Rick and Denny, thank you both for your thoughts and comments, I much appreciate them.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostFri Aug 10, 2018 10:32 am

I just got the 12-100 olympus F4, I have the 75mm 1,8 as well, now looking forward to the BMPCc 4K to arrive. Got a solution via 3-d printing to attach a t5 Samsung to the top of the camera.

Looking at the 12-40 again today, and then trying the 12-100 with IS on/off, I decided to forgo the 2.8 and got for the F4 12-100. When needed I have the faster 1.8 75mm.
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rick.lang

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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostFri Aug 10, 2018 5:42 pm

Congratulations Him-ch. Always feels good to make a decision! This year I decided to let my bank account make my decision regarding a zoom for the BMPCC4K. Nyet!


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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostFri Aug 10, 2018 6:58 pm

Thank you Rick.
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michaeldhead

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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostFri Aug 10, 2018 7:11 pm

I still think it would be more secure as a "T" shape. That way the drive cannot fall out of one side of the holder accidentally.

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Him-ch

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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostSat Aug 11, 2018 12:47 am

Michael I think it is tight enough fitting.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostMon Aug 13, 2018 1:58 pm

Him-ch wrote:Michael I think it is tight enough fitting.


Oh, how many times I've said that, and how many times I've been wrong....

:)
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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostTue Aug 14, 2018 5:04 am

I have some rubber bands which I intend to apply. I am sure then it will be fixed securely enough. Don't forget it also attached to a cable which can be wrapped around the SSD once and then rubber band applied.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostThu Aug 23, 2018 10:32 am

I have actually got these lenses F2 12 and F1.8 75mm. F2.8 7-14mm and F4 12-100 mm with a Pen F.

Now I can get used to the lens and bide my time for the Blackmagic.
Last edited by Him-ch on Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostThu Aug 23, 2018 10:55 am

Have you factored in stability and ND filters?
I have found pure hand held pretty impossible to use with the original Pocket. I expect nothing different from the 4K version.
Also, outside I had to be at f16 or f22 on my lenses without ND filters. Again, the same is going to be true of the Pocket 4K. This plays into lens choice, because the different size of each lens dictates a different (and often expensive) ND filter diameter. I tend to only use the same couple of lenses outdoors and bought my self some step up adapters and a set of ND filters for my largest diameter lens.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostThu Aug 23, 2018 12:11 pm

Chris, that’s the prudent approach. I have one set of 4x5.65” rectangular filters when the matte box is required for lenses up to 114mm outside diameter such as the future Tokina 11-20mm T3 and one set of 82mm screw-in filters for the lighter ‘compact’ lenses that are becoming a popular design with a maximum outside diameter of 95mm such as my SLR Magic T2.1 APO primes.


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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostThu Aug 23, 2018 12:46 pm

Yes, I think my set is 82mm.
Having moved from Australia to the UK....I haven't needed ND so much. :lol:
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rick.lang

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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostThu Aug 23, 2018 3:29 pm

With British Columbia burning up and the golden hour visible at high noon, you might like to shoot here without ND just to have an orange sun in the photo anytime of the day.


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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostFri Aug 24, 2018 5:47 am

Chris Whitten wrote:Have you factored in stability and ND filters?
I have found pure hand held pretty impossible to use with the original Pocket. I expect nothing different from the 4K version.
Also, outside I had to be at f16 or f22 on my lenses without ND filters. Again, the same is going to be true of the Pocket 4K. This plays into lens choice, because the different size of each lens dictates a different (and often expensive) ND filter diameter. I tend to only use the same couple of lenses outdoors and bought my self some step up adapters and a set of ND filters for my largest diameter lens.


Probably not as much as you Chris. I do have some ND variables from previous gear that fit some of the lenses. Obviously not the 7-14!

I also bought the Pen-F partly as an insurance policy if I don't get on like a house on fire with the 4K. Also of course with Olympus lenses one needs n Olympus body to update the lenses as far as I know that wouldn't happen with the 4K.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostFri Aug 24, 2018 4:52 pm

No, the PenF will update firmware on Oly lenses. But you are correct, the BM Camera is not going to work.
I have a PenF and the Oly 12mm lens, used the PenF to update the lens FW.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostSat Aug 25, 2018 12:32 pm

Thanks Denny good to have that confirmed about updates to lenses. I have ended up with a choice two fixed lenses and two cameras. Plan to travel with both and attach whichever of the lenses works best with either camera. It will be interesting to see which lens/s get the most use.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostSat Aug 25, 2018 5:42 pm

Sorry to piggyback, but I have a related question, this time for the original Pocket and Micro Cinema Camera, although it's relevant to the BMPCC 4K as well.

The two lenses I've been using to date are the Panasonic 12-35mm zoom and the SLR Magic 10mm cine prime for wide-angle. I've found myself wishing for a bit more reach at times, so am now debating between the SLR Magic 50mm cine prime or the Panasonic-Leica 42.5mm. The Pany-Leica is twice the price, although likely worth it for the image quality. But it's designed more for stills than video.

The Pany-Leica has a stepped aperture ring, but i'm not sure it's actually manual; does it work with the BMPCC? My main hesitations are focus throw and ability to control focus using remotes (e.g. the One Little Remote on the Micro Cinema Camera); I have a follow focus for cine lenses that also has a rubber wheel for focus on DSLR lenses but it's not very reliable.

There's also the Pany 35-100mm zoom, which has the advantage of the same filter size as the 12-35, but I doubt I'd ever go longer than 50mm.

Any thoughts/recommendations?
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rick.lang

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BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostSat Aug 25, 2018 5:49 pm

Between these two lenses, it may boil down to your shooting style. The prime may give you excellent results but at a fixed focal length. The zoom may cost twice as much but gives you a long range that might come in handy. What about a zoom in the 12-60mm range so you have one zoom for almost everything you likely will need for video?


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Last edited by rick.lang on Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostSat Aug 25, 2018 7:40 pm

OK the PL 42.5 is in a class with real Leica and the Zeiss 28mm Hollywood lens. The f/stop ring only works with a Panasonic body like the GH 4/5. On the BN or Oly cameras it is a non functioning decoration. The lens will work with Lanc remote for focus and Iris with the BM Ursa handle on the Micro or the Iris and focus buttons on the Pocket. Focus is faster than your Panny zoom, Iris is set in 1/3 EV steps. The lens is controlled nicely with Phil’s OLR.

The only lens in the lineup with step less Cine iris is the PL 12-60 zoom, which has a fast quiet focus and the zoom is very smooth and focus is parfocal during a zoom.

Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Brad Hurley

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Re: BMPCC 4K - lenses question

PostSat Aug 25, 2018 8:11 pm

Thanks, Rick and Denny!

More to think about...fortunately I'm in no rush and probably won't buy until early next year.

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