List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/18

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Kevin Norris

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List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/18

PostThu Aug 30, 2018 7:34 pm

I have an on going problem on remote facilities in the US. Most mobile facilities are currently built to work with 3G-SDI Level A signals. More and more smaller vendors trying to integrate with mobile units are bringing us BMD products. A lot of which has issues with Level A. Kinda the reason most truck carry AJA products and not BMD.

Anyone have a list of BMD with Level A support? Or a list of BMD products lacking Level A support?

Thanks
Kevin
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Xtreemtec

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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostThu Aug 30, 2018 7:38 pm

I think we should build one ourselfs.. There is no known list of A /B compatibility..

Wanted to make such a list for my own BMD gear as well.. Because i do have a lot of BMD gear and run a lot on 3G..
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostThu Aug 30, 2018 10:24 pm

To start things off, here is my understanding of the 3G SDI support of the Mini Converters and Micro Converters:

Micro Converter HDMI to SDI - Output: Level A & B
Micro Converter SDI to HDMI - Input: Level A & B
Micro Converter BiDirectional SDI/HDMI - Input: Level A & B, Output: Level A & B

Mini Converter SDI to HDMI - Input: Level A & B (as of firmware 7.0.7)
Mini Converter SDI to HDMI 4K - Input: Level A & B (as of firmware 7.0.8)
Mini Converter SDI to HDMI 6G - Input: Level A & B
Mini Converter HDMI to SDI - Output: Level B
Mini Converter HDMI to SDI 4K - Output: Level B
Mini Converter HDMI to SDI 6G - Output: Level A & B

Mini Converter SDI to Analog - Input: Level A & B (as of firmware 7.0.8)
Mini Converter SDI to Analog 4K - Input: Level B
Mini Converter Analog to SDI - Output: HD SDI only (no 3G SDI)

Mini Converter SDI to Audio - Input: Level A & B (as of firmware 7.0.7)
Mini Converter SDI to Audio 4K - Input: Level A & B
Mini Converter Audio to SDI - Input: Level B, Output: matches input
Mini Converter Audio to SDI 4K - Input: Level B, Output: matches input

Mini Converter Optical Fiber - Input: Level B, Output: matches input
Mini Converter Optical Fiber 4K - Input: Level A & B (as of firmware 7.1), Output: matches input
Mini Converter Optical Fiber 12G - Input: Level A & B, Output: matches input

Mini Converter Quad SDI to HDMI 4K - Input: Level B
Mini Converter SDI Distribution - Input: Level B, Output: matches input
Mini Converter SDI Distribution 4K - Input: Level A & B (as of firmware 7.0.9), Output: matches input
Mini Converter SDI Multiplex 4K - Input: Level B, Output: Level B

Mini Converter UpDownCross - Input: Level A & B: Output: HD SDI (matches input in distribution mode)
Mini Converter UpDownCross HD - Input: Level A & B, Output: Level A & B
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Xtreemtec

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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostFri Aug 31, 2018 7:29 am

Atem 1M/E old style - No 3G
Atem 2M/E old style - No 3G
Atem TVS old style - No 3G

Atem Production Studio 4K - Level A & B (Settable in Atem software)
Atem 1M/E Production Studio 4K - Level A & B (Settable in Atem software)
Atem 2M/E Production Studio 4K - Level A & B (Settable in Atem software)
Atem 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K - Level A & B (Settable in Atem software)
Atem Television Studio HD - Level A & B (Settable in Atem software)
Atem Television Studio HD Pro - Level A & B (Settable in Atem software)
Atem Television Studio Pro 4K - Level A & B (Settable in Atem software)


When we have all products in the list. I will also put this info into the FAQ section as reference to everyone ;)
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostFri Aug 31, 2018 8:25 am

UltraStudio 4K - Level A & B (as of 10.9.5)
DeckLink 4K Extreme - Level A & B (as of 10.8.2)
DeckLink Studio 4K - Level A & B (as of 10.6.8)
DeckLink SDI 4K - Level A & B (as of 10.6.6)
Threadripper 1950X 3.7GHz
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DeckLink 4K Extreme 12G
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostFri Aug 31, 2018 11:07 pm

Here are the Teranex Mini Converters:

Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI 12G - Input: Level A & B
Teranex Mini HDMI to SDI 12G - Output: Level A & B (as of firmware 6.1.1)

Teranex Mini SDI to Analog 12G - Input: Level A & B
Teranex Mini Analog to SDI 12G - Output: HD SDI, 6G or 12G (no 3G output)

Teranex Mini SDI to Audio 12G - Input: Level A & B, Output: matches input
Teranex Mini Audio to SDI 12G - Input: Level B, Output: matches input

Teranex Mini 12G-SDI to Quad SDI - Input: Level A & B, Output: Level A & B
Teranex Mini Quad SDI to 12G-SDI - Input: Level A & B, Output: Level A & B
Teranex Mini SDI Distribution 12G - Input: Level A & B, Output: matches input

Teranex Mini Optical to HDMI 12G - Input: Level A & B
Teranex Mini HDMI to Optical 12G - Output: Level A & B (as of firmware 6.1.1)
Teranex Mini Optical to Analog 12G - Input: Level A & B
Teranex Mini Analog to Optical 12G - Output: HD SDI, 6G or 12G (no 3G output)
Teranex Mini Optical to Audio 12G - Input: Level A & B, Output: matches input
Teranex Mini Audio to Optical 12G - Input: Level B, Output: matches input

Teranex Mini IP Video 12G - Input: Level A & B, Output: matches input
Last edited by Dave Del Vecchio on Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostSat Sep 01, 2018 8:17 am

Dave Del Vecchio wrote:Here are the Teranex Mini Converters:
Teranex Mini Analog to SDI 12G - Output: HD SDI, 6G or 12G (no 3G output)

Teranex Mini Analog to Optical 12G - Output: HD SDI, 6G or 12G (no 3G output)


Dave i'm pretty suprised by those Analog units not being able to do 3G.. But do HD and 6/12G... :?
Feels Weird.. But true..

SDI Video Standards

525i59.94 NTSC, 625i50 PAL
720p50, 720p59.94, 720p60
2160p25, 2160p29.97, 2160p50, 2160p59.94
1080i50, 1080i59.94, 1080i60
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostWed Sep 05, 2018 1:06 am

Xtreemtec wrote:Dave i'm pretty suprised by those Analog units not being able to do 3G.. But do HD and 6/12G... :?
Feels Weird.. But true..

Yeah, I'm sure the SDI driver hardware used is capable of 3G SDI, but I think because of the upscaling modes supported on these units, there are no 3G output options. With SD input they allow upscaling to HD in which case 1.5G HD-SDI is used. With HD component input, they allow upscaling to UHD in which case 6G or 12G SDI output is used.
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostWed Sep 05, 2018 4:12 pm

Duo 2 - A & B (both input and output). Don't know which driver version it started at.
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostThu Sep 06, 2018 4:16 am

Here are the monitors:

SmartView HD - Input: Level A & B (as of firmware 4.0.3), Output: matches input
SmartView Duo - Input: Level A & B (as of firmware 4.0.3), Output: matches input
SmartScope Duo 4K - Input: Level A & B (as of firmware 4.0.3), Output: matches input
SmartView 4K - Input: Level A & B (as of firmware 4.0.1), Output: matches input

Video Assist - Input: Level A & B (as of firmware 1.2)
Video Assist 4K - Input: Level A & B
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Kevin Norris

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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostSun Sep 09, 2018 3:48 pm

Wow! Hadn’t been on in a bit! Awesome info guys!!! Thanks
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostMon Sep 10, 2018 10:49 pm

Here are the multi-viewers:

MultiView 16 - Input: Level A & B, Output (multiview): HD SDI or 6G SDI (no 3G)
MultiView 4 - Input: Level B, Output (multiview): HD SDI or 6G SDI (no 3G)
MultiView 4 HD - Input: Level A & B, Output (multiview): Level A & B
Last edited by Dave Del Vecchio on Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostSat Sep 15, 2018 3:44 am

Here are the full-sized Teranex standards converters:

Teranex Express - Input: Level A & B (as of firmware 4.2), Output: Level A & B
Teranex AV - Input: Level A & B, Output: Level A & B
Teranex 2D - Input: Level B, Output: Level B
Teranex 3D - Input: Level B, Output: Level B
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostFri Sep 21, 2018 2:13 am

Here are the HyperDeck recorders:

HyperDeck Studio - Input: HD SDI (no 3G), Output: HD SDI (no 3G)
HyperDeck Studio Pro - Input: Level A & B (as of firmware 6.0), Output: Level B
HyperDeck Studio 12G - Input: Level A & B (as of firmware 6.0), Output: Level B
HyperDeck Studio Mini - Input: Level A & B, Output: Level B
Last edited by Dave Del Vecchio on Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostTue Sep 25, 2018 10:39 pm

Here are the Videohub routers:

Smart Videohub 12x12 - Input: Level A & B (as of firmware 6.3.2), Output: matches input
Smart Videohub CleanSwitch 12x12 - Input: Level A & B (as of firmware 6.3.2), Output: matches input
Smart Videohub 20x20 - Input: Level A & B (as of firmware 6.3.2), Output: matches input
Smart Videohub 40x40 - Input: Level A & B (as of firmware 6.3.2), Output: matches input
Smart Videohub 40x40 12G - Input: Level A & B (as of firmware 6.3.2), Output: matches input

Micro Videohub 16x16 - Input: Level A & B, Output: matches input
Studio Videohub 16x32 - Input: Level A & B, Output: matches input
Compact Videohub 40x40 - Input: Level A & B, Output: matches input

Universal Videohub 72 - Input: Level A & B, Output: matches input
Universal Videohub 288 - Input: Level A & B, Output: matches input
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Dave Del Vecchio

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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostThu Sep 27, 2018 12:28 am

The Teranex Mini HDMI to SDI 12G and Teranex Mini HDMI to Optical converters now support selectable 3G SDI Level A or B output (as of firmware 6.1.1).

I have updated the post on the Teranex Mini converters above accordingly.
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostTue Oct 09, 2018 2:19 pm

SDI Shield - Seems only to support Level B. No switch in setup utilty.
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostTue Nov 20, 2018 9:34 pm

Following the latest v6.0 update to the HyperDeck Pro, it would seem that Level A as an input is now supported.... Can't find any mention of this in the documentation though....

Also our Multiview 16 has always accepted Level-A signals.......
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostWed Nov 21, 2018 12:53 am

URSA Broadcast and URSA Mini Pro support 3G Level A and Level B when working in 3G.

URSA Broadcast added this in 5.0.1 and URSA Mini Pro added it in 6.0
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostWed Nov 21, 2018 1:36 pm

binaryburford wrote:Following the latest v6.0 update to the HyperDeck Pro, it would seem that Level A as an input is now supported.... Can't find any mention of this in the documentation though....

Also our Multiview 16 has always accepted Level-A signals.......



Although once recorded, when played, Output seems to revert to Level B.

Please could BMD confirm the expected behaviour if it has changed???
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 5:29 pm

ATEM Camera Converter - 3G Input: Level B, Output: Level B (+ HDMI In/Out in 1080p50/60)
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostWed Jul 24, 2019 8:11 am

So I've got a ATEM 4M/E Broadcast and it doesn't seem to handle Level A inputs at 1080p50... Are we sure the ATEM's can do Level A input or just output with the settings?
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostWed Jul 24, 2019 8:18 am

From my experience: Yes, it can handle level A, but not from all sources.

Which source are you trying with?

It is limited how many sources I have tested, but mine will gladly accept level A from BM cameras, JVC remote cameras and Decimator converters.
It will not accept level A from Marshall cameras (CV502) and DJI controllers.


rohanwright wrote:So I've got a ATEM 4M/E Broadcast and it doesn't seem to handle Level A inputs at 1080p50... Are we sure the ATEM's can do Level A input or just output with the settings?
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostWed Jul 24, 2019 10:44 am

rohanwright wrote:So I've got a ATEM 4M/E Broadcast and it doesn't seem to handle Level A inputs at 1080p50... Are we sure the ATEM's can do Level A input or just output with the settings?

The Atem handles Level A fine. The problem is your PTZ Optics camera that is not Broadcast complaint!!
Same with those Marshall cameras they use a Camera security chipset instead of a broadcast chipset because it is much CHEAPER then the SMPTE complaint chipsets..
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostWed Jul 24, 2019 11:15 am

Thats super disapointing... Using a scaler adds too much latency for my needs...
Are there any similar products that are compatible? I spent ages looking up these cameras and didnt find any reason they wouldnt work. I feel like there is a serious lack of transparancy from all these companies on the complexities of SDI.. not a single one of the spec sheets has ever mentioned the Level A/B thing, and now your saying theres whole other incompatible standards as well.. how are you supposed to know what to buy!
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostWed Jul 24, 2019 12:36 pm

Oh there no Lack around all companies.. But the problem is that PTZ Optics tried to cut corners placing cheaper chipsets in there cameras to get the price down.

But they are not broadcast compatible and that is why so many users have issues and almost all report they have problems with PTZ Optic cameras.. Just search the forum and you will see how big the problem is. So yes cheap cameras but not use-able yet in a 1080P environment.

Bmd might come with an update in the future that fixes the problem by accepting non SMPTE compatible sources.. But that is easier said then done. It is not there problem that PTZ optics and some marshall cams use NON SMPTE chipsets. ;)
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostWed Jul 24, 2019 9:17 pm

Thank you for figuring this out Daniel. If it helps, the ATEM Television Stuido 4K Pro and Constellation should accept these SDI signals. I have verified the Pro 4K. I don't have the camera now to test the Constellation but I feel it well. The HDMI from these cameras do work with supported ATEMs if that is any help. Many of the cameras are 60 Hz instead of 59.94 Hz which is also problematic for most ATEMs but the Television Studio Pro 4K and Constellation will accept these frequencies as input.

Regards, Gary
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostWed Jul 24, 2019 9:24 pm

So I guess that answers my other question, Marshal was my second choice.
Any recommendations for a budget wide angle drum cam with 1080p50 and super low latency?
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostWed Jul 24, 2019 10:52 pm

rohanwright wrote:So I guess that answers my other question, Marshal was my second choice.
Any recommendations for a budget wide angle drum cam with 1080p50 and super low latency?


I don't know how much of a budget you are on, but I would suggest the BM Micro Studio camera.
I have ditched the Marshalls because the image on the BM is so much better. And you have CCU control when using an ATEM.
It's a little bit more bulky, but if you mount it correctly it isn't a problem.
My setup is:

BM Micro
Lumix G 7-14mm
Short mic stand with round base
Manfrotto 244 arm
Heavy sandbag (with steel granule, 12kg) to weigh it down
LP-E6 dummy plate to DTap (because the included expansion port power cable is very bulky)
Wooden Camera Micro Cage

A big vlock battery will power this for a whole production day.
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostThu Jul 25, 2019 12:02 am

Thanks, I have thought about the Micro Studio camera, my worry was finding lenses that work, but i just found the BMD list of servo lenses. It still works out about 3 times the price though. I guess I'll just have to wait till I have the budget.
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostThu Jul 25, 2019 4:57 am

rohanwright wrote:Thanks, I have thought about the Micro Studio camera, my worry was finding lenses that work, but i just found the BMD list of servo lenses. It still works out about 3 times the price though. I guess I'll just have to wait till I have the budget.


I first got the Lumix G 14-42 servo lens, but that way way too tele for a drum in my opinion. Also you can't fluently zoom in mid shot, and you have to adjust focus afterwards.
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Re: List of BMD Products that accept 3G Level A as of 8/30/

PostThu Jul 25, 2019 6:53 pm

I wouldn't expect the Marshall CV502 to work with ATEM natively, but the CV502B does as it puts out the broadcast resolutions/framerates. When buying one of their cameras, always look for the -B in the model

The Marshall folks have realized that the differentiating models is more trouble than it is worth, and moving forward their chipsets and imagers will support the entire range of possibilities.

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