BMPCC firmware updates?

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Augusto Lombardi

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BMPCC firmware updates?

PostThu Jan 10, 2019 9:09 am

HI Blackmagic people i'm trying to realize if there is a more up to date firmware than 2.1 for Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera, the old glory pocket camera, i scrolled all the updates and read all the description and it looks like there is nothing after 2.1

am i wrong?

there are several things that could be better in that camera and i think that a little update is deserved, a lot of people effectively use this little monster

focus should be better, an option to turn off the screen to save battery when camera is remoted would be good, BM RAW would be great as well...

did you stopped development on that camera? :?: :?
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lee4ever

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostThu Jan 10, 2019 4:35 pm

That's the way it is. There are a lot of Pocket owners who would be looking forward to a new firmware. Me too: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84451#p468040
But some think, the BMPCC is fryed, if the technical possibility is used, which are built into the camera (Spartan 6 FPGA, sCMOS sensor, which becomes according to manufacturer minimally hotter with 100fps.).
Too bad and again too bad that BM seem to give up the camera and there are always users who motivate to do so.
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Augusto Lombardi

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostThu Jan 10, 2019 5:16 pm

if BM decided to stop developing of that camera it would be great to open the firmware to users

so people can modify at it's own risk...but cool things could come up

as happened with panasonig GH1 GH2 GH3.....

i don't know if also this idea was already covered on the forum
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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostThu Jan 10, 2019 5:18 pm

The original BMPCC is EOL, and has been replaced by a new model, the Picket 4/6K Cameras. I doubt if BM is going to do any more tweaks to it. Time to move on. That said, both the BMPCC and Micro Cinema camera have a lovely IQ, and the camera’s deliver excellent HD footage. Just because it is nit longer made, does not stop anyone from enjoying the use of one. I still use my old Pana AF100A, which is also EOL.
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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lee4ever

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostThu Jan 10, 2019 5:32 pm

Augusto Lombardi wrote:if BM decided to stop developing of that camera it would be great to open the firmware to users


Also my wish! That would be even better, of course.
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Augusto Lombardi

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostThu Jan 10, 2019 5:37 pm

and ofcourse open fimrware equals to stop warranty and support

i think it's fair enough for both BM and final users
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lee4ever

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostThu Jan 10, 2019 5:41 pm

Denny Smith wrote:The original BMPCC is EOL, and has been rep,aced by a new model. I doubt of BM is going to do any more tweaks to it. Time to move on.

There are people who love the picture quality (cinema) of the old BMPCC and buy the old BMPCC again in 2018/19. The BMPCC4k cannot replace the decision for the BMPCC simply because this beloved image quality is not the same.
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Valery Axenov

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostThu Jan 10, 2019 6:33 pm

Good news to be if BM will update only issue with v30 Extreme pro SD cards.
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Brad Hurley

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostThu Jan 10, 2019 6:49 pm

Valery Axenov wrote:Good news to be if BM will update only issue with v30 Extreme pro SD cards.


That's an issue for SanDisk to fix, not Blackmagic Design. And it does sound like SanDisk is coming out with a new version of their SD cards that will work again in the old BMPCC.
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Valery Axenov

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostThu Jan 10, 2019 7:15 pm

Brad Hurley wrote:
Valery Axenov wrote:Good news to be if BM will update only issue with v30 Extreme pro SD cards.


That's an issue for SanDisk to fix, not Blackmagic Design. And it does sound like SanDisk is coming out with a new version of their SD cards that will work again in the old BMPCC.


I do not think that SD will release downgrade software for my v30 64Gb Card. From time to time I need to swich on/off my bmpcc to recognaze it. I have warrany from SD and plan to use this card till 2048 accordingly.))) So use at the moment old SD card as prime on board one.
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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostFri Jan 11, 2019 1:05 am

if BM decided to stop developing of that camera it would be great to open the firmware to users


There's a long list on manufacturers who could do that but won't.

We see it as a way to improve hardware we own, they see it as infringement of their IP's copyright, or allowing their competitors to read their technologies secrets.

Frankly, it would force manufacturers to innovate more, but if done right with 'official corporate oversight', they could leverage the tech community as developers, rather then just unpaid Beta Testers.

It would boost a companies own products, if owner groups were able to come up with the code for features we want when we're working with the cameras - using my Cion as example, I'd love Raw at 1080p, 4:3 mode for Anamorphics, higher frame rates at 10 or 8 bit, instead of only doing 12 bit.

A user group could come up with the code, test on out-of-warranty bodies, then submit the code to the manufacturer for ratification and certification, with the manufacturer then offering it as 'Community Driven Add-on Features'

The manufacturer would then know exactly what features us operators want in future models.

I'm betting that the first company to do it, will end up with a user base more loyal then Apples, Coca Cola's or GM / Ford,... in turn, that will mean the ability to creep prices on the profit margins.

But who's going to complain if an expensive investment will last longer and be supported for longer - amortised over the extended life of a product, our investment as owners would increase in real value, and better retention of value for secondhand sales.
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Augusto Lombardi

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostTue Aug 20, 2019 9:43 am

i'd really like to see this happening...BMPCC is still a perfect product to be abandoned this way :cry:
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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostTue Aug 20, 2019 10:49 am

In the music gear world one particular company of note offered synth modules with open source code.
Initially a couple of enthusiasts developed alternative firmware offering extra features.
Then people started to build and sell clone modules, basically the same as the original modules but cheaper. That probably harmed the original developer.
Then a bigger company announced a synth that contained many elements of the original person's source code.
At that point, possibly by co-incidence, the original developer announced they were no longer going to design and sell synth modules. Their reasons were vague, but you imagine they felt like their work had been used by others to profit, rather than by DIY users to improve the firmware.
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lee4ever

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostTue Aug 20, 2019 1:05 pm

When it comes to developing an FPGA camera, you will find much easier ways nowadays than copying codes in the case of a released Firmware.
Nobody else will benefit from it except BMPCC, BMMCC, BMCC.. users. It is a pity that the old firmware will be abandoned. If BMD would want, then the ProRes, CDNG can leave closed and release the rest. :)
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javier forza

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostTue Aug 20, 2019 6:38 pm

Augusto Lombardi wrote:if BM decided to stop developing of that camera it would be great to open the firmware to users

so people can modify at it's own risk...but cool things could come up

as happened with panasonig GH1 GH2 GH3.....

i don't know if also this idea was already covered on the forum



This idea sounds Wonderfull.
Every brand of the planet should open the firmware when they decide to finish the development.
We have pay for the product, let us do whatever we want with the entirely product :D
This reduce the obsolescence by marketing decisions. Congrats for this idea.

Salve a tutti!
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Frank Engel

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostFri Aug 23, 2019 1:12 am

There could be at least two issues here:

  • Compressed CDNG support may run afoul of the RED patent, so they might need to modify the code to remove that if they were going to release it
  • They may be using other companies' code or other items which they may not have permission to release. Stripping that out of the code base may render it useless unless replaced, and they might not want to spend the developer time on doing so


Obviously I don't know for sure that either of these is true, but if they are then that could easily prevent this from happening even if BMD would otherwise want to.
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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostFri Aug 23, 2019 5:30 pm

My first post as the owner of a 2nd hand BMPCC and it would be great to see BM release an update. Something that BM might not consider is that as technology moves on and older cameras go onto the second hand market, new users are exposed to their technology and ethos. However when they see the lack of support they will feel dissapointed with that purchase and possibly hold that negative view in the future.

In my case this has shown me that BM may not support a new camera very far into the future and It will certainly affect the way I view that investement.

Of course BM may think that this is fairly standard in the market and therefore not realy care - of course missing the opportunity to be truly different!
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Jean Capdouzey

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BMPCC 2 firmware updates?

PostSat Aug 24, 2019 7:16 am

When?
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Jean Capdouzey

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostSat Aug 24, 2019 7:18 am

Augusto Lombardi wrote:if BM decided to stop developing of that camera it would be great to open the firmware to users

so people can modify at it's own risk...but cool things could come up

as happened with panasonig GH1 GH2 GH3.....

i don't know if also this idea was already covered on the forum


Yes! Magic Lantern on the BMPCC! Love it.
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carlomacchiavello

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BMPCC firmware updates?

PostSun Aug 25, 2019 9:06 pm

Augusto Lombardi wrote:if BM decided to stop developing of that camera it would be great to open the firmware to users

so people can modify at it's own risk...but cool things could come up

as happened with panasonig GH1 GH2 GH3.....

i don't know if also this idea was already covered on the forum


Ehm not exactly
A Russian hacker named Vitality develop a tool to edit firmware of gh1 and 2, later Panasonic encoded in different way firmware to avoid reverse engineering for gh3.
Me too produced custom firmware for gh2, but I was aware that I do illegal operation.
Never Panasonic leave open source firmware, and if Blackmagic Design will do it, they reveal too many secrets around their color science and more.


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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostSun Aug 25, 2019 9:11 pm

Valery Axenov wrote:Good news to be if BM will update only issue with v30 Extreme pro SD cards.

San disk change controller and type of memory cell, Sony develop a newer firmware for their (more modern than Bmpcc) cameras to support newer controller, i not think is possible for bmpcc, it, 6 years old camera with 6 years old processor/controller. Sony did it for recent and more powerful cameras


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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostMon Aug 26, 2019 7:55 am

BMD left the original BMPCC very capable of great CDNG or ProRes shooting.
I'm baffled why some people say it is handicapped in any way by no new firmware over the last couple of years.

The single issue is the SD card issue, which is unfortunate, but I think BMD said it was an SD card design issue, not a BM camera issue.
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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostMon Aug 26, 2019 10:30 am

Chris Whitten wrote:The single issue is the SD card issue, which is unfortunate, but I think BMD said it was an SD card design issue, not a BM camera issue.


As I have written here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83050&p=539703#p534750
Angelbird has modified the firmware of two of their SD card models so they are now fully compatible with the old Pocket. You have to order the cards from them directly, as that is the only way to make sure you will get the latest modified versions. More details in the link.
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Valery Axenov

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostMon Aug 26, 2019 7:45 pm

carlomacchiavello wrote:
Valery Axenov wrote:Good news to be if BM will update only issue with v30 Extreme pro SD cards.

San disk change controller and type of memory cell, Sony develop a newer firmware for their (more modern than Bmpcc) cameras to support newer controller, i not think is possible for bmpcc, it, 6 years old camera with 6 years old processor/controller. Sony did it for recent and more powerful cameras


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I have one early Sandisk v30 64GB that works without problems in my bmpcc. So it seems to me that it is not a big difference inside of old and v30 cards. I think it was mainly driver modifications that cause a problems for users. One company are able to support BM and users with proper card driver for bmpcc, micro and videoassist monitor. It's a good news for BM.
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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostMon Aug 26, 2019 7:49 pm

Yes, the old cards work fine. The Angelbird cards that Robert facilitated are a good choice; if you don't need to record raw at frame rates higher than 30fps (e.g., if you have the BMMCC), you can also use the very inexpensive Kingston Canvas React 128GB SDXC Class 10 SD UHS-I100MB/s R 80MB/s card.
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Augusto Lombardi

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostFri Jan 24, 2020 11:10 am

carlomacchiavello wrote:Ehm not exactly
A Russian hacker named Vitality develop a tool to edit firmware of gh1 and 2, later Panasonic encoded in different way firmware to avoid reverse engineering for gh3.
Me too produced custom firmware for gh2, but I was aware that I do illegal operation.
Never Panasonic leave open source firmware, and if Blackmagic Design will do it, they reveal too many secrets around their color science and more.


you just forgot to mention that after the hack of the GH1 and GH2 Panasonic increased the sellings of those 2 monsters so much that they almost destroyed the Canon 5D market...in that days all the videos were done with 5D and no one was able to compete with that cameras

i still own my panasonic GH2, i know how much important was the hacking from the russian guy and this is the exact reason why i ask to open the doors to free developers...if the GH5 is still a great product that sells more than Canon is thanks to "hackers" and people that at home spent a lot of time researching the best possible settings for overclock GHx caemra firmwares with no retribution for their job...panasonic should give them a fee

the same happened to the first windows phone 7, people hacked the code and started to improve it so much and for free that microsoft opened the doors to voluntary people that decided to contribute to the development

it is matter of numbers, if you have 1 developer he can do a great job, if you have 10 it will be even better, if you have the whole planet that works with passion no one can bite you...if blackmagic realizes this they could understand what i mean
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Frank Engel

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostFri Jan 24, 2020 12:44 pm

It doesn't always work that way.

Too many cooks spoil the broth.

If you have too many people working on the project then they will be pulling it in every which direction - with a lack of coherent focus the product will be compromised.
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Augusto Lombardi

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostFri Jan 24, 2020 7:17 pm

and how do you explain the amount of GH1 GH2 still working like charm?

and all the mobiels hacked? and all the hardware hacked?

yes is true that some hardware will be damaged but we are talking of a product that is dismissed

if you talk of something else please explain it
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Frank Engel

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostFri Jan 24, 2020 7:53 pm

I was referring primarily to this:

it is matter of numbers, if you have 1 developer he can do a great job, if you have 10 it will be even better, if you have the whole planet that works with passion no one can bite you...


That is not generically true.

As to the whole GH1/GH2 hack thing, that was one developer who did the hacks, not 10 or the whole planet. He was building on what the team at Panasonic did, but in the end, the hacks themselves were the work of one person.
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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostSat Jan 25, 2020 8:06 am

Jean Capdouzey wrote:
Augusto Lombardi wrote:if BM decided to stop developing of that camera it would be great to open the firmware to users

so people can modify at it's own risk...but cool things could come up

as happened with panasonig GH1 GH2 GH3.....

i don't know if also this idea was already covered on the forum


Yes! Magic Lantern on the BMPCC! Love it.


Both the lantern and the GH stuff took advantage of the camera looking for things at boot time on flash media (firmware/service mode), most BM cameras do not check that, they have a dedicated port for firmware. And having attempted to reverse URSA 4k FW update packages - I can tell you it's tough. It would require a USB based MITM between the camera and the update host and a nice packet dump in WireShark. IDA tools full, access to non critical equipment etc to test with.. So if a counterpart with my same first name did it in a country that does not respect IPR - does not mean that I can go and toy with it and publish results in USA. :-(
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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostMon May 24, 2021 12:34 pm

I guess old BMPCC is limited by its hardware speed, not the sensor
if we could have had 100fps @720p they would have done it I think
That said, I still make currently music video clip in 2021 with that small beast ...
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carlomacchiavello

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BMPCC firmware updates?

PostSun May 30, 2021 6:05 am

Augusto Lombardi wrote:and how do you explain the amount of GH1 GH2 still working like charm?

and all the mobiels hacked? and all the hardware hacked?

yes is true that some hardware will be damaged but we are talking of a product that is dismissed

if you talk of something else please explain it
Augusto I remember very well that period, and I remember very well the amount of problems, most of people that fill forums of moan about wrong use of it, problems of caching, quality etc. The same for magic lantern for canon and not only. It was not so smooth for all.

Just today forums and Facebook are full of people with false problems be cause they not read small manual of pocket (original) or not read that there is a small list of verified support where to write and fill thread about rubbish micro sd failing or ssd (with low performance) with loose frame, or with troubles about picture quality without study a bit about camera.
I read thread about people that break door of sd be cause use skewdriver to open it, they not read manual how to open it and force... I read about people that brick camera be cause firmware update go too long than turn off camera...
I understand very well why Blackmagic Design not want an open firmware for their camera and I’m agree with him.
If you want there is axiom camera (a Kickstarter where I fund it) with open firmware, a nice project for a modular camera, but it’s an example of failing of open firmware, I wait final camera from 2014, they continue to develop but all cameras are beta cam... too much developing too much experimentation


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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC firmware updates?

PostFri Jun 04, 2021 12:59 am

The original Pocket Cinema Camera’s low sensor frame readout speed limited its ability to film at higher frame rates. You can not push a sensor beyond its physical limitations.
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