Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

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rick.lang

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Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Nov 08, 2018 7:35 pm

Justin, I can’t think of any lenses from the traditional photo lens manufacturers that meet your criteria. The focal lengths can be done but not that combination in a f/1.8 lens kept constant through the zoom range anywhere close to $1,000.

To put that in perspective remember the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 Zoom is the fastest zoom in that range of focal lengths. Doing that feat with a considerably wider zoom is difficult to do in a budget lens.


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Iain Philpott

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Nov 08, 2018 11:47 pm

I have the Panasonic Lumix Vario 12-35 and aside from it being a 'throw it on covers everything' lens I don't think its a great lens and I certainly would not want to shoot a job on it. That was on the original pocket. I've only just taken delivery of my pocket 4K so have not tried it on that yet. So as I was thoroughly unimpressed with the Panasonic I bought 3 Voigtlanders, 17.5, 25 and 42. They transformed the camera so Im really interested to see how they perform on the 4K. They were so good on the original pocket that footage would cut well with the Ursa. However I'm now looking at trying to collect a set of used Veydra's.
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rick.lang

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 2:54 am

Iain, those focal lengths are a good starter set on the BMPCC4K.


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Justin Jackson

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 6:43 am

Rick.. seems like the Sigma 18-35 is still the best option so far. I think with the .75 reduction it would be what, a 13.5 or so? I would hope that is wide enough for most anything, right?
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 6:56 am

I find that 12mm (24mm in FF) is the sweet spot at the widest end, but around 14mm (28mm in FF) works OK as well.
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rick.lang

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Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 2:59 pm

Justin, minimum focal lengths are a mix of practicality and personal taste in terms of your preferred artistic perspective. When you are working in close quarters and have a need to cover many subjects, on the BMPCC4K with its horizontal crop factor of 1.9x, 18mm behaves like a 35mm lens in terms of stills 135 film dimensions. That’s middle of the road for a wide angle and I would find that lacking at times, particularly shooting indoors. If you were using a Metabones SpeedBooster Ultra, the 0.71x focal reduction brings it to a 24mm equivalent angle of view. You’re right that is likely wide enough to suit nearly every purpose. And using a 12mm lens gets you there without the expense and complications of adding the SpeedBooster.

However there are times when artistic choices may require a much wider view (or even for practical purposes for real estate video). Then you may reach for a 10mm or even 8mm on MFT. Personally though if you’re shooting that wide and moving the camera, you’d better be careful as it can be disorientating for your viewer—which might be your intent.

Edit
A caution though, putting a SpeedBooster on the Sigma 18-35mm may result in a serious vignette. The lens with cover Super 35, but 1.9x 0.71x = 1.35x and that crop isn’t going to allow the lens to cover the frame.

On the original BMCC with 2.28x horizontal crop, even the SpeedBooster XL stays at Super 35 and could be a good choice, but the BMPCC4K is a little wider than normal MFT when shooting DCI 4K. If you shoot UHD on the BMPCC4K, the SpeedBooster and the Sigma 18-35mm may be acceptable with some falloff in the corners.

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 5:15 am

Dang.. you know your boosters and math Rick! So I got that LensRegain on order, which is .75, I was doing the math in my head wrong.. forgot about the 1.9x crop of the camera. I was thinking the Sigma 18-35 would reduce to like 13 or so.. but with the almost 2x crop like you said, it is more like 24.. which is not nearly wide enough in my opinion. I did see (or read...cant remember now) a review of the LensRegain + Sigma that indicate there was no (or maybe little) vignetting. Not sure how true that is yet. At any rate, I have my 28mm canon L F1.8 that I hope will be decent to use for now. I was hoping to keep the booster on the camera to gain that extra stop and purchase EF lenses for now. I also wanted to take advantage of the LensRegain focus/iris controls via the wireless module. But I can see/agree that a 12mm MFT lens might be necessary for something like real-estate video to avoid the crop and potential vignetting issues. Ill have to figure out what lens to get for that down the road.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Nov 10, 2018 6:12 am

Thanks, Justin, but I did miss seeing that SpeedBooster Ultra for PL-MFT that I had been waiting for. Can’t keep up with everything! I’m on the B&H Photo wait list for that but no idea how I can pay for it. It’ll be around $1,000 Cdn. It will need to wait until 2019.


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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 2:54 am

I think I see one.. says .71x, PL to MFT, $719 USD. Is that the one.. or is that not ideal for PL lens? Cant remember all this info!! I think .71 is for APS-C lens and .64 is for full frame?
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 5:13 am

Is anyone using the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8 IS with a Metabones 0.71 adapter and can comment on how this combo works, any vignetting at the wide end and especially if IS works well? Thanks.
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rick.lang

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 3:22 pm

That’s the one, $719 Ultra 0.71x.

The business of saying an Ultra 0.71x focal reducer is intended for APS-C lenses and a XL 0.64x focal reducer is intended for ‘full frame’ is misleading and could easily cause problems. So best to forget that mantra and determine which is best being guided by the image circle of a given lens and the sensor size in question (that determines its crop factor) and with what effective focal lengths you want to work.

When thinking of sensor size, it’s really the physical dimensions of the open gate active area or could also be a window of the sensor. So shooting open gate DCI 4K on the BMPCC4K, with a crop factor 1.9x, might be a problem with some lenses and SpeedBoosters. But the UHD window and its crop factor 2.025x may just make everything perfect.

Regarding image circles, that’s a royal PITA when you’re using photo lenses for Cine purposes. Very few photo lens manufacturers include the physical dimension of the image circle which you need to know. The just say full frame (1.0x crop), APS-C Canon (1.6x sensor crop factor) or APS-C Nikon DX (1.53x sensor crop factor) so as not to overwhelm the unsophisticated consumer with knowledge that really doesn’t matter to them.

But it does matter a lot to Cine shooters that have several different sensors and coverages to contend with especially since the advent of the SpeedBooster. That said even Cine lens manufacturers targeting professional shooters pull a similar stunt when they say their lens has an image circle of 43.3mm. That’s just not true in some cases. They’re using that number just because that’s what is needed to cover a traditional Super 35 film gate. And they now might say full frame or even the larger VistaVision rather than overwhelming the Pro with real numbers.

To illustrate the Rokinon 10mm and 16mm photo lenses are both listed as APS-C lenses. So you might think you can’t use those on the larger URSA Mini 4.6K sensor since that needs a Super 35 lens. The truth is the image circle of the Rokinon 16mm does cover Super 35 and the 10mm does not.

If you want to shoot with the full sensor of the BMPCC4K, the sensor crop factor us 1.9x and all APS-C lenses work of course. But if you add the Ultra 0.71x focal reducer, your net crop factor becomes 1.349x. 1.9x 0.71x = 1.349x which is beyond the Super 35 image circle of the 16mm lens. So you can’t use that lens with the DCI 4K sensor area. You need a full frame lens with the Ultra or the XL on the BMPCC4K.

If you wanted to record raw or ProRes HD in a window, the crop factor of the HD window is a very large 4.05x. 4.05x 0.71x = 2.88x and you can shoot with any APS-C lens or larger with any SpeedBooster.

The slightly larger than traditional MFT sensor on the BMPCC4K presents a challenge for Super 35 lenses whose image circles are close to the limits of Super 35. Notably the Sigma lenses that are said to have an image circle of 28.4mm. We know Sigma is playing it safe and perhaps even slightly understating the diagonal because many people use those lenses on the URSA Mini 4.6K sensor with a diagonal of 29.08mm. The diagonal of the BMPCC4K is 21.44mm and naturally the lens has no issues. But if you apply the Ultra 0.71x SpeedBooster, the Image circle of those Sigma lenses is reduced to 20.164 and it will vignette on the BMPCC4K full sensor. The image circle of the UHD window is 20.4mm and although that’s a bit larger, the Sigma will likely be fine. The diagonal of a traditional MFT sensor shooting with 16:9 aspect ratio is 19.55mm and the Sigma is going to work without any issue.

Usually I just consider horizontal crops because all BMD sensors previously were using the 16:9 aspect ratio. But having to take into account the DCI 4K active sensor area of the BMPCC4K, I should start using the actual sensor diagonals and lens image circles to make accurate apples-to-apples comparisons. The math may be precise but the numbers are always suspect compared to the actual experience of people shooting with the lenses and adapters. The Sigma lenses with 28.4mm image circles illustrate where the numbers are suspect because we know it works on the URSA Mini 4.6K sensor for example.

All these issues disappear if you are using full frame lenses with any SpeedBooster as the coverage of the BMPCC4K is fine. Super 35 lenses may be fine with an Ultra 0.71x SpeedBooster but they may not provide bright corners if their image circle is strictly traditional Super 35 like some Sigma lenses.



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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 6:04 pm

To be safe, I would only consider using either SB (my favorite for MFT being the 0.71) with Full Frame 135mm lenses. Many DX/APS-C lens image circles are just too close to the traditional S35 sensor (not the UM 4.6) to get a clean image at the edges. Many photo lenses do not fair well at their edges of their image circle, either, and especially the less expensive DX/APS-C crop lenses. Theses lenses, I would just use without a SB. I do not use a SB with my Tokina 11-16, even though from 14-16mm it will work with the 0.71 SB, but to what advantage? At 11mm it covers most of my UWA shots on the MFT format.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 6:40 pm

So first.. BH has some crazy prices right now on the black friday lenses.. But I have no idea what would be good or not. There is a Zeis 25mm Distagon at $900 off.. $800. Not sure if that is photo or cine.. doesnt say cine so guessing its for photo.

Anyway, so I bought the LensRegain booster because in comparisons it is "comparable" to the MetaBones, but it was only $150, for $700 or so. I figure.. for my current EF lenses (Rokinon 85mm cine, Canon 28mm USM, and kit lenses for my old T2i and a nifty fifty), this speed booster is good enough. Some of the lenses I think are full frame and some APS-C. I still havent learned if APS-C is bigger/smaller than S-35, etc. You guys got the science and math down for lenses to sensor sizes, and crop. I just want a couple lenses that work well. :D

As a hobbyist who hopes to get lucky to shoot some fun project for someone willing to let me do it for free just to get some footage and practice, I am thinking the Sigma 18-35 may do the trick in EF.

The crazy side of me though.. thinks.. get the MFT-PL booster, and buy a couple $4K PL cine lenses.. and then my bank account gives me call and slaps me upside the head with a bit of reality...

Plus I really want (and am hoping) the Mova AIR X gimbal lives up to all the hype (and pricing is on part with LAB 3).. and want to get a few c-stands and 2 Aperture 120d or 300d lights. So thinking.. 1 cine lens, or all that other gear.. all the other gear makes more sense to me to be able to do more than just one good cine lens.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Nov 11, 2018 10:07 pm

Is the Sigma 18-35 a good buy at $687?? right now on Amazon for this price.. normally $800. Seems like a worth while purchase. With the booster, it should provide good low light wide angle video right?
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rick.lang

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Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 6:44 am

On the BMPCC4K, the Sigma 18-35mm, with the 0.75x focal reducer you have, may vignette slightly shooting DCI 4K, but it will have bright corners shooting UHD. It will be quite fast, about T1.5, and a good wide angle.


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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 6:11 pm

Tristan Pemberton wrote:I recently received my Metabones Speedbooster EF to MFT BMCC (0.64x) to use on my Pocket 4K.

The first lens I tested with it was the Canon 24-105mm f/4. Works great. The IS & Iris work as expected. The autofocus doesn't' work, but that's of no concern as I always manual focus anyway. Maybe a future firmware update may fix it.

It becomes a 15.4-67mm f/2.6 lens - a vey useful range and speed for for the Pocket 4K.


Great to know - thanks. I have the 24-105 and use it often on the Ursa Mini - so good to know I can use it on the Pocket 4k with the Metabones Speedbooster. Haven't ordered the camera yet - but getting all of my ducks in a row. I would prefer to use my existing lenses as opposed to getting new MFT lenses... 8-)
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 5:02 am

What is the actual PIXEL size of BMPCC4k sensor? How comes than GH5S that has the same sensor can offer 2776 in height and thus offer 4/3 and 3/2 modes?
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Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 5:06 am

The sensor is 18.96x10.0mm. The photosite is 4.63 microns square.

Sony supplies the sensor for the BMPCC4K and the Panasonic, but it’s not identical as Sony will meet the specificities of the camera manufacturer. The Panasonic is a stills camera that is quite capable of shooting video. The BMPCC4K is a Cinema Camera quite capable of shooting stills. Vive la difference!

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 9:31 am

marcellomazzilli wrote:What is the actual PIXEL size of BMPCC4k sensor? How comes than GH5S that has the same sensor can offer 2776 in height and thus offer 4/3 and 3/2 modes?


I don't know why people just assume that the GH5s and the PCC4k share the same sensor...
... I guess because clueless YouTubers say so

GH5s
17.3 x 13 mm (4:3 / 1.333:1) pixel pitch of 4.71 µm, max 4016 x 2760 px / 3680 x 2760 px 4:3 / 4096 x 2160 4k DCI (sensor size 19,29 x 10,17)
dual ISO low 160-800, high 800-51200
4k up to 60p, HD up to 240p

PCC4k
18.96 x 10.0 mm (1.896:1) pixel pitch of 4.63 µm, max 4096 x 2160
dual ISO low 100-1000, high 1250-25600
4k up to 60p, HD up to 120p
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 12:59 pm

rick.lang wrote:Justin, minimum focal lengths are a mix of practicality and personal taste in terms of your preferred artistic perspective. When you are working in close quarters and have a need to cover many subjects, on the BMPCC4K with its horizontal crop factor of 1.9x, 18mm behaves like a 35mm lens in terms of stills 135 film dimensions. That’s middle of the road for a wide angle and I would find that lacking at times, particularly shooting indoors. If you were using a Metabones SpeedBooster Ultra, the 0.71x focal reduction brings it to a 24mm equivalent angle of view. You’re right that is likely wide enough to suit nearly every purpose. And using a 12mm lens gets you there without the expense and complications of adding the SpeedBooster.

However there are times when artistic choices may require a much wider view (or even for practical purposes for real estate video). Then you may reach for a 10mm or even 8mm on MFT. Personally though if you’re shooting that wide and moving the camera, you’d better be careful as it can be disorientating for your viewer—which might be your intent.

Edit
A caution though, putting a SpeedBooster on the Sigma 18-35mm may result in a serious vignette. The lens with cover Super 35, but 1.9x 0.71x = 1.35x and that crop isn’t going to allow the lens to cover the frame.

On the original BMCC with 2.28x horizontal crop, even the SpeedBooster XL stays at Super 35 and could be a good choice, but the BMPCC4K is a little wider than normal MFT when shooting DCI 4K. If you shoot UHD on the BMPCC4K, the SpeedBooster and the Sigma 18-35mm may be acceptable with some falloff in the corners.

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Rick, I don't have much experience with wide lenses, based on your comment I am worried the choice I have settled on for when my Pocket 4Ks arrive could be misjudged.

I had made up my mind that the 10.5mm and the 25mm Voigtlanders looked amazing and would complement my UMP with 35mm Xeen when doing 3 camera podcasts/interviews.
My intention was that 1 of the new Pockets would match the UMP 35mm by using the 25mm on the the interviewer and subject as mid-close shots and that the 10.5mm would be a wide shot on both people.

Do you think its way too wide?
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 2:51 pm

No, I don’t think 10mm is “way too wide” on the BMPCC4K but based on the video I posted recently showing the Tokina at 11mm on the 4.6K sensor, at these short focal lengths, it becomes quite a creative tool that takes some extra care in how it is used.

The 10.5mm on the BMPCC4K will have the same angle of view as the Tokina at 14mm on the URSA Mini 4.6K: both would match a 20mm on 135 film cameras.

I ran through all the zoom range of the Tokina 11-20mm and 14mm is still quite wide but not as edgy as 11mm. I’m sure you’ll enjoy those lenses and in time you’ll likely want to try something like a 45mm (wonderful for closeups on the BMPCC4K) and a focal length in between your 10.5 and 25mm such as 17.5mm which may be very useful for a moderate wide view. That would be my equivalent of using a 25mm APO on the URSA Mini 4.6K.

If you feel you love those wider views, then you might want a 15mm instead for the BMPCC4K which is just like my Tokina at 20mm on the URSA Mini 4.6K that I really like based on what I shot recently.

When I say these wider lenses require extra care, I’m thinking about motion primarily and how changes in perspective are magnified at very wide angles. There may be a time when that’s exactly what you want, but often panning and tilting might make a viewer somewhat disoriented if the pans and tilts are large. You’ll see what I mean.


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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 3:45 pm

Thanks Rick
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSat Jan 05, 2019 6:06 pm

Nice Rick, I also like to use the 15mm Panna Leica on my MFT Oly PenF, nice focal length for this format.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 3:02 am

Tell you what, my 28mm Canon L sucks on the BMPCC4K. It could be my lack of using it right so far, but not overly happy with the quality I am getting. Really wish I could get the Sigma right now! Or heck, find a cheaper but decently good quality used EF wide lens.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 12:48 pm

I'm interested in something more exotic, super compact prime and zoom lens systems. Like the one shown in the Red hydrogen cinema module.

I am interested in exotic lens systems (holographic etc) 3D multipoint lens system (like Panasonic did on 4/3rds except 4 lens points). Something which used a camera phone like m4/3rds lens system might be relatively slow, but in normal lighting a lot more compact and light to use. The hybrid liquid lens in phones were good. Maybe time to speak to some lens houses. 4 mobile like lenses could make a m43rds 3D multipoint lens system for 4k and 8k cameras to give 2k and 4k 3D and higher quality computational photography ability for post. The thing about this, is the 4 similar images will compress better allowing a lower quality mode to generate the similar quality. On 3D BR discs the second image added 50% more data rate, so I'm hopeful 4 will only be 200+% data rate over the quarter image. So, 4 2k images (on the pocket 4k image) might work out to be twice the datarate of a 2k raw image would. I was looking at doing such a camera before the pocket 4k. But, you can use a lens like this to do it. Simpler to film with if done right (a bit more complex to get the different aspects right for the human vision system automatically).
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 6:30 pm

Justin, sell your Canon 28mm L and buy the excellent Zeiss ZF (or ZE Canon version) 28mm f/2.0 and see how that works for you. This is the same lens as the famous Hollywood Contax 28mm f/2.0, that was much sought after.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Jan 06, 2019 7:18 pm

Panasonic lumix 14-42 powerX 3.5-5.6. 80gr pancake
quite good, less expansive lens with Pocked4k, but... at 14 it have a light vignette when light go down be cause it was designed for m4/3 sensor.
Untitled 4.jpeg
Untitled 4.jpeg (384.27 KiB) Viewed 1868 times


just if someone is curious to test it.
Untitled 5.jpeg
Untitled 5.jpeg (400.76 KiB) Viewed 1868 times

more light, less than notable vignette
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Jan 10, 2019 5:16 am

So my 85mm Rokinon Cine did MUCH better than the 28mm. Only downside is the zoom factor, but worked out well shooting a soccer game from the stands, a little too close, but better than the 28mm. Plus having the iris manual knob allowed me to dial in the amount of light nicely.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 12:16 pm

Hi, … I tried to read (and understand) all postings about the optimal lenses for the Pocket Cinema 4K.
I just got mine and I’m trying to decide which lenses I should go for.

So, what I understood is - it is the best way to use „Full Frame“ lenses with a Speedbooster Ultra 0.71x or XL 0.64x,
because that combination covers all possible sensor areas of the Camera?

For the Full Frame Lenses I was thinking about these:

Samyang Optics Full Frame Set
- 14mm T3.1 VDSLR II
- 24mm T1.5 VDSLR II
- 35mm T1.5 VDSLR II
- 50mm T1.5 VDSLR
- 85mm T1.5 VDSLR II


Or should I go for APS-C Lenses and a Speedbooster Ultra 0.71x - will I get in trouble with those?

Samyang Optics APS-C / Super 35 Set
- 10mm T3.1 VDSLR II
- 16mm T2.2 VDSLR II
- 24mm T1.5 VDSLR II
- 50mm T1.5 VDSLR
- 85mm T1.5 VDSLR II



... or just take these two:

Olympus M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 7‑14mm 1:2.8 PRO (MFT)
Olympus M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 12‑40mm 1:2.8 PRO (MFT)
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 3:02 pm

Niklas Olofsson wrote:Hi, … I tried to read (and understand) all postings about the optimal lenses for the Pocket Cinema 4K.
I just got mine and I’m trying to decide which lenses I should go for.

So, what I understood is - it is the best way to use „Full Frame“ lenses with a Speedbooster Ultra 0.71x or XL 0.64x,
because that combination covers all possible sensor areas of the Camera?

For the Full Frame Lenses I was thinking about these:

Samyang Optics Full Frame Set
- 14mm T3.1 VDSLR II
- 24mm T1.5 VDSLR II
- 35mm T1.5 VDSLR II
- 50mm T1.5 VDSLR
- 85mm T1.5 VDSLR II


Or should I go for APS-C Lenses and a Speedbooster Ultra 0.71x - will I get in trouble with those?

Samyang Optics APS-C / Super 35 Set
- 10mm T3.1 VDSLR II
- 16mm T2.2 VDSLR II
- 24mm T1.5 VDSLR II
- 50mm T1.5 VDSLR
- 85mm T1.5 VDSLR II



... or just take these two:

Olympus M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 7‑14mm 1:2.8 PRO (MFT)
Olympus M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 12‑40mm 1:2.8 PRO (MFT)



The problem is that this sensor is what in basketball you would call a "'tweener", i mean, it's something between apsc and full frame, so yes, the best option is to go full frame with a focal reducer, but full frame means more money to buy lenses.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 4:17 pm

The sensor is smaller than APS-C. The issue comes up with focal reducers.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 6:13 pm

Also, Zooms like the 7-14 can not take front screw-in filters. Adding adapters like the SB can also induce optical issues, Canon EF lenses do not always play well with thrived party smart adapters, which need upgrades for the Pocket 4K to work correctly. If you do not have FF or APS/C lenses, you might want to consider getting the better native mount or PL Cine Lenes, like the SLR Magic APOs, Fujion cine zoom or Tokina Cine zooms.

Another lens to consider is something like the new Tokina 11-20 Cine Zoom (also comes in a less expensive photo version) which is available in both MFT and PL mounts. Unless yiu have a special requirement, you would not be using ultra wides that much. For that occasional shot, the SLR Magic 10mm hyperprime is a nice option also. Ultra wide zooms like 7-14 are a bucket full of compromises, and not not have the distortion control, exhibit more CA or chroma issues. Ultra wides are better in prime lenses.

So the sweet spot of normal wides on a csmera like the new Pocket 4K seems to be 12mm on the wide end. So zooms like the Oly Pro 12-100 and Pana Leica 12-60 wil,also do well, and give yiu access to touch zoom and auto focus pulls.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 6:55 pm

well.. I don't have the budget for PL Cine lenses, but the Samyang are some kind of Cine lenses and they comes with Canon-EF, Sony-E or MFT mount... Full Frame only in EF or Sony-E, and MFT for APS-C size.
https://www.samyanglensglobal.com/en/pr ... category=D
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 9:32 pm

They are a good start, if you wa t to go with a kens that can be use over several camera platforms.
Cheers
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Australian Image

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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 10:03 pm

I've always preferred zoom lenses once I started using digital cameras, especially mirrorless. There was one thing that Olympus cameras had and that was the supersonic wave filter (SSWF) that activated every time the camera was turned on, keeping the front of the sensor clean and this technology actually worked. The SSWF also assisted in keeping anything that did stick to the filter from showing up, as the filter sat above the filter glass and sensor and so was well out of focus.

The BMPCC4K doesn't have this SSWF, but does have a thick sensor glass, but you have to be careful when changing lenses, especially in adverse conditions to avoid getting dust on the filter. This is where a zoom lens can be very handy, as you don't have to change lenses. I now use an Olympus 12-60mm f2.8-4 zoom, which provides full manual focus control and gives me a very good range for most conditions. Such second hand lenses can be bought for less than a cheap prime lens, but are often not considered or known by cine users.

Once they do become known, the prices will go up and availability will diminish, so consider them earlier rather than later.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 5:01 am

Niklas, the image circle of the Samsung/Rokinon 10mm is very close to the limits of a real APS-C camera so you cannot use it with the focal reducer on the BMPCC4K without having a porthole. The 16mm may vignette very slightly if at all on the URSA Mini 4.6K Camera as it has a larger image circle (30mm) but on the BMPCC4K with a focal reducer there will be a pronounced vignette.


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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 5:28 am

Ray, ... Lens changing and dust is indeed to think about ... it won't be easy to clean the sensor, I suppose.
Is this the Olympus you recommend?
https://www.olympus-europa.com/site/en/ ... index.html
Do that Lens has manual focus too, so it would be possible to attach a follow focus?
I need to read your blog ;)


Rick, ... so to clear my mind with the Samyangs -
Full Frame 14mm with SB 0.71x will be ok - no vignetting, but nothing below that?
If going below, like a 10mm it should be a APS-C lens with MFT Mount?

So maybe it would be better to use the Samyang APS-C set with MFT Mount at all.
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rick.lang

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Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 7:02 am

Niklas, certainly all the Samyang/Rokinon APS-C lenses would be fine in mFT Mount. But if you wanted an EF mount to use the SpeedBooster, you’ll have some problems with the 16mm and the 10mm would be useless except if you were recording HD windowed. I think the 24mm and higher would work. Best to verify with some here who has those lenses.




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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 7:12 am

Niklas Olofsson wrote:Ray, ... Lens changing and dust is indeed to think about ... it won't be easy to clean the sensor, I suppose.
Is this the Olympus you recommend?
https://www.olympus-europa.com/site/en/ ... index.html
Do that Lens has manual focus too, so it would be possible to attach a follow focus?
I need to read your blog ;)


Yes, that's the one. I bought it second hand for a song and all you need is an adapter, either an Olympus one or aftermarket. It's far better than I expected it's very sharp and clear, and has a fantastic close focus ability.

It has full mechanical focus control which is why I bought it and a fairly short focus throw, which some may not like. The zoom also has a short throw (quarter turn), which makes for fast changes. The AF won't work, though the iris will, but I prefer manual focus anyway as it provide far more control.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 6:31 pm

Australian Image wrote:Yes, that's the one. I bought it second hand for a song and all you need is an adapter, either an Olympus one or aftermarket. It's far better than I expected it's very sharp and clear, and has a fantastic close focus ability.

It has full mechanical focus control which is why I bought it and a fairly short focus throw, which some may not like. The zoom also has a short throw (quarter turn), which makes for fast changes. The AF won't work, though the iris will, but I prefer manual focus anyway as it provide far more control.


which is the correct adapter?
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostWed Jan 16, 2019 7:41 pm

garypayton wrote:
Australian Image wrote:Yes, that's the one. I bought it second hand for a song and all you need is an adapter, either an Olympus one or aftermarket. It's far better than I expected it's very sharp and clear, and has a fantastic close focus ability.

It has full mechanical focus control which is why I bought it and a fairly short focus throw, which some may not like. The zoom also has a short throw (quarter turn), which makes for fast changes. The AF won't work, though the iris will, but I prefer manual focus anyway as it provide far more control.


which is the correct adapter?


Olympus sell an MMF-1 (silver), MMF-2 (black) and MMF-3(black and weatherproof). Other brands are the likes of Viltrox etc. I would recommend the Olympus simply from the point of view of getting good manufacturing quality.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Jan 17, 2019 9:14 pm

Australian Image wrote:
garypayton wrote:
Australian Image wrote:Yes, that's the one. I bought it second hand for a song and all you need is an adapter, either an Olympus one or aftermarket. It's far better than I expected it's very sharp and clear, and has a fantastic close focus ability.

It has full mechanical focus control which is why I bought it and a fairly short focus throw, which some may not like. The zoom also has a short throw (quarter turn), which makes for fast changes. The AF won't work, though the iris will, but I prefer manual focus anyway as it provide far more control.


which is the correct adapter?


Olympus sell an MMF-1 (silver), MMF-2 (black) and MMF-3(black and weatherproof). Other brands are the likes of Viltrox etc. I would recommend the Olympus simply from the point of view of getting good manufacturing quality.


You finally convinced me and I just bought a used olympus 12-60 mm. I will get it next week
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Jan 17, 2019 9:35 pm

garypayton wrote:You finally convinced me and I just bought a used olympus 12-60 mm. I will get it next week


I look forward to hearing what you think.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Jan 17, 2019 10:50 pm

Australian Image wrote:
garypayton wrote:You finally convinced me and I just bought a used olympus 12-60 mm. I will get it next week


I look forward to hearing what you think.



Sure,

i found a cheap focal reducer too, i think i could give it a try
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Jan 17, 2019 10:58 pm

garypayton wrote:
Australian Image wrote:
garypayton wrote:You finally convinced me and I just bought a used olympus 12-60 mm. I will get it next week


I look forward to hearing what you think.



Sure,

i found a cheap focal reducer too, i think i could give it a try


A focal reducer won't work with these lenses.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostThu Jan 17, 2019 11:27 pm

Australian Image wrote:A focal reducer won't work with these lenses.



Well, thank God i didn't buy it, anyway it must have been really bad cause it costs 15 dollars :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Jan 20, 2019 12:32 am

Still really want my Sigma 18-35... seems like the go to lens most folks use for video work. Unfortunately I have had to get a few other things more pressing, namely a better video tripod. I really like the Sachtler Flowtech.. but its a bit out of range at $1300 right now. So going to make do with the Benro A673 for the near term.
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Jan 20, 2019 8:12 pm

After months of thinking and years of acquiring decent quality FD mount lenses to adapt to m43 cameras with the metabones .71x (24 f2.8, 28 f2.8, 35 f2, 50 f1.4, 85 f1.8), I will be getting rid of all of it and get just 2 lenses to pair with a .71x Metabones... a Sigma 18-35 f1.8 and either a Zeiss Ze or Milvus 50mm f1.4 for interview headshots. With these two lenses I will have basically all the important stuff covered for what I do. I'll lose some of the character of these lenses for sure, but I also won't be fighting veiling and ghosting as much, and I will actually be able to use them at their widest apertures when the client wants "that out of focus thing they saw in that one video."

I am sick of changing out lenses and filters on the wider end and dang that Sigma just looks great on this camera despite the focus breathing and weight.

I was really considering just getting the Olympus 12-100 f4 based on John Brawley's high praise and the videos I have seen or the Leica 12-60 with a voightlander prime for headshots, but I really want to be able to use these same lenses on my c100s and other super 35 cameras.

Its been a ride getting the family of FD's together and shooting them, but I am ready to pare down to 2 lenses on this beast...
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Jan 20, 2019 9:29 pm

Dune00z wrote:After months of thinking and years of acquiring decent quality FD mount lenses to adapt to m43 cameras with the metabones .71x (24 f2.8, 28 f2.8, 35 f2, 50 f1.4, 85 f1.8), I will be getting rid of all of it and get just 2 lenses to pair with a .71x Metabones... a Sigma 18-35 f1.8 and either a Zeiss Ze or Milvus 50mm f1.4 for interview headshots. With these two lenses I will have basically all the important stuff covered for what I do. I'll lose some of the character of these lenses for sure, but I also won't be fighting veiling and ghosting as much, and I will actually be able to use them at their widest apertures when the client wants "that out of focus thing they saw in that one video."

I am sick of changing out lenses and filters on the wider end and dang that Sigma just looks great on this camera despite the focus breathing and weight.

I was really considering just getting the Olympus 12-100 f4 based on John Brawley's high praise and the videos I have seen or the Leica 12-60 with a voightlander prime for headshots, but I really want to be able to use these same lenses on my c100s and other super 35 cameras.

Its been a ride getting the family of FD's together and shooting them, but I am ready to pare down to 2 lenses on this beast...


Its worth considering the Tokina 28-70 2.6-2.8. Its got character and can also be used wide open. I picked it up for £120 and ended up selling my sigma 18-35 and 50-100 in favour of the Tokina!
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Re: Lenses For Pocket Cinema 4K

PostSun Jan 20, 2019 10:31 pm

JordanWright wrote:Its worth considering the Tokina 28-70 2.6-2.8. Its got character and can also be used wide open. I picked it up for £120 and ended up selling my sigma 18-35 and 50-100 in favour of the Tokina!


I thought about this as I really like that lens and it does have a surprisingly good reputation, but I fear it's not wide enough on the short end for me... I thought about using the XL metabones instead but wide open lenses tend to get a little washed from the metabones in my experience whereas the. 71x has no apparent loss in quality I could see. 24mm always leave me wanting to get wider indoors so a 28 minimum I think isn't going to work for me.

Regarding character I'll be somewhat blunt... In my work people don't care about that and I find it annoying to shoot around sometimes, especially veiling or ghosting. They want generally sharp, contrasty, and saturated. I love how narrative film makers use the flaws in the glass to make beautiful images but it just doesn't work for me when I use them. The helios 44-2 many rave about for example... I hate using that lens.

I don't think I'll be getting the Sig 50-100. The focus breathing is insane on that lens and I would rather I think get a number of other lenses for that price, length, size.
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