SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

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rick.lang

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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 4:30 am

Thankfully I did not need the $1,299 package mentioned in the previous post. I think I must have displayed the Ikan webpage when it was under maintenance. The part I needed was the single slave motor, PD-MX. I ordered that with the master motor and thumb controller PDL-F-V2 today. The version 2 upgrade is going to allow very fine adjustments of focus I as I believe one rotation has 8192 steps. So each step is a small fraction of a tooth on the focus gears on a lens. I’ll understand that better when I get it.

Not cheap, but it’s the least expensive way for a sole operator to focus a taking lens and an anamorphic adapter at the same time with one thumb. So the anamorphic adapter and the PD Movie setup is still cheaper than buying a single new anamorphic lens.

I had intended just to shoot spherical glass in 2.4:1, but that just doesn’t have the same character. The 1.33x-65 Anamorphot is hardly a wild and crazy anamorphic experience, but that suits me. It will be more subtle and you might not be aware of it which is good since the lens is not the story (unless you’re shooting Barry Lyndon).


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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 4:47 am

Are you all sitting down for this? Grab the arms of your chair and hold on... the balance of my payment for the SLR Magic 32mm T2.1 APO with titanium PL mount went through today! The shipper should have it Friday and that means I might have it next Friday or thereabouts. You don’t want to know how long I’ve waited for this lens.

If any of you are actively posting on the BMCuser forum, please update my SLR Magic thread there with the news. So many have been waiting for this lens so they should start seeing their 32mm lenses although each lens can take weeks to create. It’s a very laborious lens to get everything just right. I had no idea how much effort went into this. Individually hand built and thoroughly tested by someone who was striving for perfection. Remember these lenses are all spherical glass elements, designed like vintage lenses, not a single aspheric lens, no special high diffraction glass, snd designed and built to match the look, size, and weight of the other lenses in the family. I’ll treasure this one.
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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 5:09 am

Unlike the relatively small APO lenses, 95mm outside diameter, the 1.33x-65 Anamorphot Adapter is big but relatively light for the size. Outside diameter 114mm just fits my matte box.

It should be shipped Friday as well.

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 5:19 am

Both the SLR Magic 32mm APO PL and the 1.33x-65 Anamorphot Adapter with focus gears (Cine standard 0.8 mod 32 pitch) shipped today! Whew, waiting to exhale. Perhaps I’ll have them next Friday. So exciting! I need to take my meds and calm down!


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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Nov 21, 2018 2:23 am

Well the package arrived Tuesday 20 November 2018 before 6 pm. Much faster than I anticipated. It’s cold outside so I’m letting the lenses acclimate before opening them up tomorrow.

The home is cool (because BC’s major natural gas line blew up a month ago so we are all conserving gas), but it’s a lot cooler flying from Hong Kong.

More photos tomorrow then...

Image

That’s the first 1.33x-65 Anamorphot with Focus Gears delivered to an individual. Fujinon got the first ones for their MK zooms. Actually the 1.33x-65 with Focus Gears isn’t for sale yet, but I was able to buy it in advance. It comes with its own lens support.

And that’s only the third SLR Magic 32mm APO titanium PL prime lens released. Hope now those who are waiting will begin to see these hand-built spherical lenses.

Finally, the SLR Magic PL-mFT Adapter with shims!

Such a great day in completing my SLR Magic lens set, began in September 2016, with the normal lens and I’m about to get into anamorphic shooting. 1.33x 16:9 aspect ratio = widescreen.

I’m still waiting for my PD Movie dual focus system that’s due next week which provides simultaneous wireless focus of the APO primes and the Anamorphot (which really removes the last hurdle for using anamorphic adapters for a budget sole operator).

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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Nov 21, 2018 5:57 pm

Unpacked and inspected, check. Mounted on URSA Mini 4.6K PL, swapping out the B4 mount this afternoon. First tests, tomorrow morning where I have a couple of hours of sun and cloud. No time for anything fancy yet.

The next two weeks are almost all overcast and raining! Two client shoots mid-December.

The larger shims in the photo are for the PL-mFT Adapter; smaller shims are for the 32mm APO T2.1.

The 1.33x-65 Anamorphot focuses from infinity to 4’. The 32mm APO focuses from infinity to less than 16”.

The 1.33x-65 is used on the APO taking lens at T2.8 for the 32/50mm lenses and T5.6 for 85mm.

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Nov 21, 2018 6:00 pm

Looking mighty fine Rick... :mrgreen:
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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Nov 21, 2018 6:04 pm

The reviewers are correct, that huge Anamorphot actually manages to feel light in the hand. Such a smooth focus ring. The 32mm is smooth and only slightly stiffer focus; the iris is fairly stiff intentionally so one doesn’t accidentally turn the iris (as I’ve done a few times with the Fujinon Cine Zoom).

I always set iris manually, no intention to put a motor on that. The APO and Anamorphot focus will be linked under motor control when the PD Movie arrives next week.

The Sennheiser AVX MKE2 lavalier will arrive next week as it just shipped. Hard to predict delivery as we have rotating postal strikes that could become a national strike shortly! Only in Canada, eh?

So I might put all these pieces together for my mid-December client shoots instead of using the Fujinon: TBD.

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostFri Nov 23, 2018 11:53 pm

Today, the PD Movie system arrived. That controls the synchronous follow focus of the 1.33x-65 Anamorphot Adapter and the APO taking lens, in this case the 32mm SLR Magic APO PL prime. Now I just move that wheel on the controller which is mounted to the tripod pan handle. The focus range of the Anamorphot is from 4’ to infinity and the controller takes care of the math to rotate each motor wheel appropriately. A simple concept.

I’ve kitchen tested the PD Movie and the Anamorphot Adapter in a limited way today just to get things setup. Hopefully the sun shines Saturday and I’ll being shooting outdoors.

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSat Nov 24, 2018 12:29 am

Hat is sooo cool Rick, and a very nice setup :!: Hope you get some sunshine tomorrow 8-)
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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSat Nov 24, 2018 3:09 am

Thanks, Denny. I moved the follow focus to the operator side of the rails so I can devote one hand to focus and one hand to pan. It may be the poor man’s budget anamorphic system, but I’ve already seen some of the anamorphic ‘character’ just testing indoors. I’ll try and get something more interesting than my kitchen tomorrow! In between the rain. If I’m exhausted now, I don’t know the word to describe my condition after tomorrow’s shoot.

The camera is not really heavy, the battery isn’t too much, the lens is manageable. The Anamorphot feels light considering it’s bigger than the lens. The follow focus is all metal and feels solid. But when you add it altogether, carrying this rig is a workout!

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSat Nov 24, 2018 3:54 am

That Borg camera looks impressive and functional.

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSat Nov 24, 2018 5:21 am

rick.lang wrote:Today, the PD Movie system arrived. That controls the synchronous follow focus of the 1.33x-65 Anamorphot Adapter and the APO taking lens, in this case the 32mm SLR Magic APO PL prime. Now I just move that wheel on the controller which is mounted to the tripod pan handle. The focus range of the Anamorphot is from 4’ to infinity and the controller takes care of the math to rotate each motor wheel appropriately. A simple concept.
I’ve kitchen tested the PD Movie and the Anamorphot Adapter in a limited way today just to get things setup. Hopefully the sun shines Saturday and I’ll being shooting outdoors.
Image
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What an awesome setup Rick! Some anamorphic goodness will be great for those theatrical projects you do!
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSat Nov 24, 2018 6:21 am

Ricardo, the Borg is an apt analogy. We are all part human and part machine when we’re using tools. Some things require that bond. Resistance is futile.


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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSat Nov 24, 2018 6:29 am

Thank you, Dwayne. I’ll talk to the producers I’m working with in January so see if we can manage that. Will need to see which lens will be best. Because the T-stop minimum is T4/T5.6, it’s a challenge as I often shoot at T2.8/T4. On the BMPCC4K, I could just bump the ISO to 1600/3200 and go with the Anamorphot. But using the BMPCC4K before mid-December is not something I can bank on.


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PostSun Nov 25, 2018 9:43 pm

Just a hint for getting the most out of the high resolution PD Movie thumb controller PDL-F-V2 with the Anamorphot. Actually this would apply to any focus or zoom gear, but I’ll use the 1.33x-65 Anamorphot Adapter as an example.

The Anamorphot focus from 4’ to infinity. The normal procedure is having the thumb controller set to control all distances from minimum distance to infinity. The thumb drive conveniently rotates 360 degrees to focus from your minimum to maximum distance. So regardless of the actual focus throw of your lens, the controller throw is 360 degrees.

If I use the PD Movie to control focus in the theatre where I record productions, the range of focus to cover all parts of the stage is something like 20’ to 60’. So I set the hard stops for the PDL-F-V2 to focus at 20’ and 60’.

Now on a lot of lenses those focus witness marks are fairly close together and if you were manually controlling focus, you would only rotate the focus ring say 5-10 degrees for example. But when you set the hard stops at 20’ and 60’, the thumb controller still rotates a full 360 degrees. Coupled with the high sensitivity of the thumb controller, you have extremely smooth and gentle focus control. You no longer have to nudge a stiff focus ring and hope you don’t overshoot or require another nudge. The motor does all the work effortlessly and you have a fine control.

PS
When I’ve used the Fujinon Cine Zoom, I use the excellent Chrosziel Zoom Control to control my zoom gear and I use a stick to control focus. Now I’ll be able to have finer control of either function with the two PD-MX motors with one thumb controller.

You set one motor to respond to focus changes (red light) and one motor to respond to zoom changes (blue light). The thumb controller can switch between red and blue (and green for iris control) depending upon whether I want to change focus or zoom in and out. Looking forward to trying that out.

The PD Movie can also control the speed used to zoom: slow, medium, and fast. So smooth zooms would be easier.

Would be better with two thumb controllers, since often when you zoom in the focus needs a little correction. With one thumb controller, I’ve got to have a decent focus set before zooming. Easier said than done, so better with two thumb controllers.


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSun Nov 25, 2018 10:54 pm

rick.lang wrote:Just a hint for getting the most out of the high resolution PD Movie thumb controller PDL-F-V2 with the Anamorphot. Actually this would apply to any focus or zoom gear, but I’ll use the 1.33x-65 Anamorphot Adapter as an example.

The Anamorphot focus from 4’ to infinity. The normal procedure is having the thumb controller set to control all distances from minimum distance to infinity. The thumb drive conveniently rotates 360 degrees to rum from your minimum to maximum distance. So regardless of the actual focus throw of your lens, the controller throw is 360 degrees.

If I use the PD Movie to control focus in the theatre where I record productions, the range of focus to cover all parts of the stage is something like 20’ to 60’. So I set the hard stops for the PDL-F-V2 to focus at 20’ and 60’.

Thanks for the info Rick. It's been really useful reading your experiences and research into the SLR Magic offerings.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSun Nov 25, 2018 10:58 pm

You’re welcome! Thanks for the feedback, Tristan.


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Nov 26, 2018 12:44 pm

rick.lang wrote:Thank you, Dwayne. I’ll talk to the producers I’m working with in January so see if we can manage that. Will need to see which lens will be best. Because the T-stop minimum is T4/T5.6, it’s a challenge as I often shoot at T2.8/T4. On the BMPCC4K, I could just bump the ISO to 1600/3200 and go with the Anamorphot. But using the BMPCC4K before mid-December is not something I can bank on.


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Yeah fair enough. Gotta make sure you're confident before rolling it out!
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostTue Nov 27, 2018 6:09 am

Rendering a short test of the 32mm APO with the SLR Magic 1.3x-65 Anamorphot Adapter. Should post tomorrow.


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostTue Dec 11, 2018 1:30 am

Okay, sometimes tomorrow is more than a day away…

Boring, but important to someone interested in seeing how the SLR Magic 32mm APO PL lens works with the 1.33x-65 Anamorphot adapter and the PD Movie that allows follow focus functionality on a budget to simultaneously focus the APO and Anamorphot lenses together. The PD Movie removes the headache of doing dual focus when using an Anamorphot adapter.

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostTue Dec 11, 2018 2:01 am

Nice Rick, and showing off your high end gourmet cookery too! :roll:
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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostTue Dec 11, 2018 3:01 am

Who knew an anamorphic circle would be a challenge to reproduce? I had no idea the squeeze altered with distance. Once you know, you can manage. I am very pleased with the controlled performance of the Anamorphot that suits my style. I’ve always liked shooting as rectilinear as possible and the Anamorphot does the trademark distortion of the vertical edges, but most of the frame is very useable.

My next video won’t be at Near distances so will have the 1.33x squeeze. I’ll upload it tomorrow (well when Vimeo will let me do it). It’s not quite as boring as my kitchen counter.


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Dec 12, 2018 2:08 am

cHere is a great source for anamorphic equipment

https://www.anamorphicstore.com/

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Dec 12, 2018 7:00 am

Thanks, Ricardo.


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSat Jan 19, 2019 12:42 am

Shot with the APO set. UMP + Braw.

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSat Jan 19, 2019 1:14 am

Nice, Vic. Which flavour of BRAW did you shoot?
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSat Jan 19, 2019 1:55 am

rick.lang wrote:Nice, Vic. Which flavour of BRAW did you shoot?



Q0 I think? I can’t remember what I had for breakfast anymore!
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSat Jan 19, 2019 8:23 am

Rick, I'm really excited to see more from this. I just made the plunge last fall and got the APO 50mm and absolutely love it. It will be a while before I get the whole set, but this anamorphic adapter really has me interested. I already have the nucleus-m, but I imagine once the adapter hits the market more, the folks over at Tilta might be able to add a firmware feature to allow for synchronized focusing as well.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSat Jan 19, 2019 5:58 pm

Robert, I have a project planned that will show the SLR Magic 1.33x-65 Anamorphot adapter paired with the SLR Magic 32mm APO prime and the PD Movie synchronous follow focus, but I’ve had to postpone it until after I receive the BMPCC4K as the project requires two cameras.

My PD Movie gear is distributed by Ikan. The synchronization of the motors is not even included in the skimpy literature provided by PD Movie. I’ve told them I’ll send them a link to this next project when it’s completed. That might spark more interest in their gear.

Perhaps I should send a link to NewsShooter that has shown my stuff before and has shown the PD Movie gear and the Anamorphot with their review of the Fujinon MK zooms for which the Anamorphot was designed.

I didn’t want to use adapters that has to be manually controlled but PD Movie’s innovation at the ‘budget’ price point makes the Anamorphot act like a lens.

Chrosziel has a likely superior solution that synchronizes focus to 16 points on the focus scale so that may be more accurate but for a lot more money.

With the PD Movie I can quickly set the minimum and maximum distances I plan to use in a shot (such as from 8’ to 30’) and it seems to work well. It’s very liberating to suddenly have 300 degrees of rotation on the focus between two or three witness marks on your prime lens when the focus gear on the lens might have those marks only 10 degrees apart. Ideal for a sole operator.


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jan 21, 2019 5:51 am

Rick, thanks for the detailed information. I'm very interested to see how this whole thing pans out. It really is an exciting time to be an owner/operator. When I first started buying cameras back in the DVX100 days, we didn't have anywhere near the level that we have today, and for once, its actually attainable to stay on the relative cutting edge!
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jan 21, 2019 5:46 pm

Rick, I also own the APO lenses 25-50-85 and am interested in shooting a feature in anamorphic.

I have A few questions.

Which of the APO lenses will work with the SLR Magic 1.33x adapter on super 35? I'm planning on using a pair of Eva1's.

Any more thoughts on how the tokina 11-20 atx matches with the APO?

It there any part of the 11-20 range usable with the 1.33 adapter?

On the PDL-F-V2, what else has to be ordered? 1 extra motor?

Is there any reasonably priced wireless remote follow focus that syncs 2 motors?
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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jan 21, 2019 8:29 pm

Richard Dean wrote:Rick, I also own the APO lenses 25-50-85 and am interested in shooting a feature in anamorphic.

I have A few questions.


Richard, you forgot to ask what I had for breakfast!

Seriously congratulations on acquiring the APO set. Hope you’ll be able to add the 32mm prime which is very sweet.

Which of the APO lenses will work with the SLR Magic 1.33x adapter on super 35? I'm planning on using a pair of Eva1's.


There are several Anamorphot adapters: best to specify the full model so inexperienced readers won’t make incorrect assumptions.

The SLR Magic 1.33x-65 Anamorphot adapter requires the taking lens to have a maximum front element of 65mm (entrance pupil) and a minimum focal length of 30mm, longer focal lengths are fine. So the SLR Magic 32mm, 50mm, and 85mm primes are supported. When you use the 32mm the squeeze effectively gives you a 25mm horizontal angle of view.

Any more thoughts on how the tokina 11-20 atx matches with the APO?


I haven’t shot with both lenses at the same time yet, but I plan to do that. To my eye they seemed very compatible, but I really need to get the scopes and do a side-by-side comparison. I’m not anticipating any problem matching shots between the APO and the Tokina. That’s one of the reasons I selected the Tokina for use on the URSA Mini 4.6K and the BMPCC4K.

It there any part of the 11-20 range usable with the 1.33 adapter?


It’s not designed to work with it, but for the price of a step-down ring (86-82mm) I hope to try it out anyway. Without understanding all the intricacies of lens design, anamorphic adapters have some peculiar characteristics so the result might be strange but useful anyway. I think first I’ll try it with the SLR Magic 25mm APO to see what happens. If that’s a total fail, perhaps there’s no need to try the 11-20mm.

On the PDL-F-V2, what else has to be ordered? 1 extra motor?


You need to order a PD-MX motor. The PDL-F-V2 includes a motor and I ordered the version with the convenient thumb controller that you can attach to rails or your tripod arm.

Is there any reasonably priced wireless remote follow focus that syncs 2 motors?


You can see all the PD Movie options on the Ikan website.

As you know the PDL-F-V2 can control two motors synchronously to change the focus of the adapter and the taking lens. You can also independently control two motors one at a time if you have the PD-MX as well. For example one motor could drive the lens focus and another motor drive the zoom or aperture.

I haven’t tried it yet, but there’s no reason you could not also control focus and zoom synchronously for a shot with one controller and two motors. For example you could set the limits of the focus gear to something like 20’ and 6’ and the zoom gear from 25mm too 100mm. Maybe you have a thief entering a room noticing a necklace on a bedside table. And so you shoot the thief in the background coming through the doorway and then pan to the table while changing the focus and zoom with your thumb controller!


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Jan 23, 2019 10:13 pm

Rick thanks for the updates.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Jan 23, 2019 10:46 pm

Anytime, Richard. We SLR Magic APO users are a close-knit group that sticks together.


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Robert DelTour

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jan 28, 2019 12:58 am

Hey Rick, is there a Facebook user group or something that I should join? I would love to be involved in the community.
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rick.lang

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jan 28, 2019 6:05 am

Robert, I try to have a minimal footprint on social media that are linked to marketing. I’m not the best person to ask for details about groups. There is a SLR Magic group on Facebook (but I don’t think I’m a member). You can certainly browse the group and join it if you like.


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 8:20 am

Hi all, I've done some tests to see how the APO's match one another, and am posting here to see other user's thoughts, and if they are experiencing the same performance. I should preface that I really like the APO's, and these tests are just a good way of understanding one facet of how they perform (mainly how well they match one another). I have sent the test to SLR Magic, and John has commented that my tests are consistent with other user's feedback, and normal. In any case, I would absolutely love to hear other's thoughts/opinions. I hope these are helpful to the community.

For reference, here are links to all my tests to view (I didn't want to flood the feed with all the charts I shot!):
Side by side comparisons (with and without false color applied) - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5sd4z79t30yhfrq/AACaMeoDqFScmYlAv3iV_PgRa?dl=0
All the charts I shot - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dn2a12yanmqdmyr/AACwGDwlIIuk6e8JxnEzy3Mqa?dl=0

Before reading, I think it is important to look at this chart I found from the Salt III test of other lens families' color/tone variation - http://www.artbyphil.com/phfx/dib/sa...onsistency.jpg



COLOR/TONE COMPARISON UNTOUCHED AT EQUIVALENT APERTURES

First off, here is a chart of swatches from a grey card of the apo's, a sigma 18-35, and a canon 70-200. All camera settings matched in controlled room with no ambient/outside light.

Image



TONE COMPARISON IN BLACK & WHITE

Now, here are some swatches of the above in black and white, so we can better see tone variance between lenses. I'm using the 50mm as a control. My thoughts:
    - The 32mm at t/2.8 and t/5.6 is a little more than a half stop brighter than the 50 (this disparity is less at t/8 up... at t/2.1 the 32 is about 1/10 of a stop brighter than the 50)
    - the 85 at t/2.1 is a half stop brighter than the 50, and at t/2.8 a third of a stop brighter (this variance diminishes the more we stop down)
    - The 25 at t/2.1 is around 1/5 stop darker than the 50. It matches pretty well from t/2.8 onwards


Image



COLOR COMPARISION WITH EXPOSURE ADJUSTED TO MATCH

Here is a swatch of the lenses at 2.8 where I did a rough exposure match, so we get an idea of color variance using the 50mm as a control. My thoughts:
    - The 25 is definitely green.
    - 85 looks very close to the 50.
    - The 32 seems very slightly greener than the 50.
    - Surprisingly the Sigma 18-35 and Canon 70-200 match the APO 50 better than the 25.
    - It seems like once tone is matched, color is relatively close between the 32,50, and 85... the 25 needs more of an adjustment for sure (as does the 32 which also seems very slightly green... but this is not really enough to be bothered too much by imho).
    - It is interesting to note that, in terms of color on the APO's, it's almost like a gradient shifting green as we go wider in focal length.

I also did a wb on grey in lightroom of all the lenses at 2.8, and here are my results:
    25: 4950k +44tint
    32: 5100k+36tint
    50: 5200k +32tint
    85: 5350k +40tint
    18-35: 5250k +30tint
    70-200: 5500k +36tint

Image



COMPARISON WITH ANOTHER USER'S LENS'

Joe on Reduser was kind enough to shoot some charts as well of his APO lenses, and I wanted to do a quick comparison to see if his were acting similarly. So first here are my lenses, first without and then with false color to give a better idea of tone variance:

Image
Image

And here are Joe's. I've also applied false color to these charts for reference. The results looks pretty similar to me.

Image

Image


CONCLUSION

My findings in summary:
    - The 32mm at t/2.8 and t/5.6 is a little more than a half stop brighter than the 50 (this disparity is less at t/8 up... at t/2.1 the 32 is about 1/10 of a stop brighter than the 50)
    - The 85 at t/2.1 is a half stop brighter than the 50, and at t/2.8 a third of a stop brighter (this variance diminishes as we stop down further)
    - The 25 is greener than all the other lens', and at t/2.1 around 1/5 stop darker than the 50
    - The 32mm is very, very slightly greener than the 50, and 85
    - When comparing to other, more expensive lenses from this test - http://www.artbyphil.com/phfx/dib/sa...onsistency.jpg I think the SLR Magics are obviously not as consistent as the master primes, or leica c series, but they seem to compare well against some of the others.
    - I had considered the Sigma or Tokina lenses as alternatives, and would love to test how consistent they are in the future. That said, in blind tests, I've never really gravitated towards the Sigma & Tokina image, thus I went with the Hyperprimes. I might have went Otus, but being stuck in EF mount is an issue. In conclusion, despite my chart results, I am still really happy with the Hyperprimes in real life shooting.... its just good to know how the lens act.
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rick.lang

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 12:41 pm

Thanks for all this effort! You didn’t mention the colour temperature and tint of your lights in the controlled shoot. Not what the manufacturer states but what you measured by colour meter. You le conclusión re green is not supported by your Lightroom WB results.

As for variation in luminosity: I believe I’ve also seen small variations if I was relying on the aperture marks on the lens. But that’s not how I expose. I expose with False Colour as determined by the URSA Mini 4.6K Camera so I’m not relying on marks. Using the shutter angle in a test is an accurate way to vary light but in a shoot you rely more on ND filtration and those filters may also have variations in density and tint. Ergo False Colour makes most things easier. For tint: I correct tint in post on a clip by clip basis if needed, but I don’t correct to a perfect WB at all times; I correct to the look I want with that clip.

So my conclusion does agree with you in that I’m happy with the value of these four lenses. And I manage variations either in camera or in post as a normal part of my workflow. I did many tests when first receiving the lenses in 2016 but temperature and tint and luminosity are not as important to me as CA and image variations like distortion and character.


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Uli Plank

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 12:52 pm

Well, if a manufacturer is giving values in T stops instead of f stops, I'd expect them to be consistent. Otherwise, this is just a marketing gimmick, like: "look, these are cine lenses". T stops were introduced so you can keep your exposure constant when quickly changing lenses.
Regarding colors, I agree. Light sources play a very important role.
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Denny Smith

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 5:52 pm

Yes, a true T-Stop in a given lens family like the APOs should all give the same exposure, at the same T-stop setting, otherwise you have F-Stops, not T-Stops. Rick, you have a set of APOs, what is your experience on this?
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rick.lang

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 8:52 pm

I believe I have seen some variations but don’t think it was as much as a half-stop as reported above. Real world use gets complicated by slight variations in the neutral density filters too.

I’d need to test specifically for comparison of T-stops between lenses which I have not done before. I never really gave that any consideration as I rarely change a lens within a given scene. If I want to shoot with the 25mm, I do that and haven’t been switching to the 85mm in the same scene. But I should see what happens. If John has said that his set performs in a similar way as reported here, I would think mine would too.

It looked like the most variation was the 32mm and 85mm brighter than the 25mm and 50mm at T2.1. I try to shoot at T2.8 to T5.6. And that’s not a full-stop difference from T2.1 to T2.8 which makes it difficult to compare luminosity within a given lens going from T2.1 to T5.6 for example. I don’t know if the reported charts took that into account.

My disadvantage in doing this test is that I don’t have precisely controlled cinematic lights. I could try to do a test outdoors in the shade from 11:30 am to 12:30 pm on a cloudless day, but those are rare now. I might test indoors in one bathroom (the only room that doesn’t have a window).
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 9:13 pm

Thanks for your feedback guys.. Here is a photo of the setup.... just two CFL softboxes, and a DSLR. I didn't have a color meter on hand to read, but I wasn't testing for neutrality really, just variation between lenses (I probably should have been more elaborate, but this was the quickest setup I could put together at the time).

In very rough tests prior to this one, I noticed similar behaviour when I tested in between takes on a studio shoot on a varicam lt lit with skypanels on seamless (which is actually what gave me the desire to do this test). I can recreate that setup maybe in the near future, as I want to test other things on the lens as well.

In any case, everyone who has time/will to share their experience, please do! I am very much happy to be proven wrong! Rick if you are ever in Vancouver, and have some spare time, perhaps we can grab a beer, and compare lens'... that would be a really good way to see how much copy to copy variation there is.

Image

Rick, in terms of wb from light room, I actually think the values do reflect the 25mm skewing green? Please correct me if I'm doing something wrong, as I'm definitely not perfect :)

Below are side by side pictures... the first photo comparision has the 25mm wb/color picked on grey to 4950k +44. The picture below is where I manually entered the 50mm's wb on grey values (5200k +32tint) for the 25mm. The green skew is pretty close to what I see when switching lens' at set kelvin. Also for reference, here are rgb values color picked I think from the t/4 charts:
25: 59 59 50
32: 71 72 66
50: 59 58 56
85: 61 63 57

ImageImage



In theory T-stops should give the same exposure (especially like denny says within the same family). But in practice, it doesn't seem to match perfectly even in some of the most expensive lens families. Please see the results of the salt III test on reduser below. As you can see, even Master Primes, and Summilux-C have variation in tone/luminance at equivalent t-stops.

Image
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rick.lang

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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 9:51 pm

Thanks for the update. I hadn’t look at the tests of the other lenses and although the Master Primes are quite good, they’re not perfect. It just illustrates that you cannot totally rely on any lens to be perfect. But I agree it should be close!

I don’t have any issue with your setup as it’s much better than what I can do now.

Looking at the RGB values, when red and green are close, you are possibly seeing what I’ve described as the warm cast of the APO lenses which is a design feature. Of course having them match closer would be better but they are not designed to be neutral and high contrast like the Sigma and the Zeiss MP. I’m hoping you didn’t feel the APO were letting you down because of the clean and clinical Sigma ART and Zeiss MP. So understand not matching the cast of those lenses is intentional. The raw glass used is different.

Although Uli may disagree (and that’s fine), I wouldn’t change a lens or a T-stop without quickly checking exposure. If I had a reason to go from T2.8 to T8 on the same lens, I’m checking exposure. If I changed ND filters, I am checking exposure. If I changed lenses, I’m checking exposure. If I don’t intentionally change anything, after awhile, I’m checking exposure because something I can’t control may have changed.

And in post, I’m checking scopes and exposing and colour correcting each clip looking at the image and the scopes and not the numbers so variations have never bothered me to the point of saying these lenses aren’t right. I’m sure if I used any $10,000 lens I’d do the same as I enjoy tweaking anyway. I don’t tweak on the test footage I post, but maybe I should to show how well each clip can match the other. But in a test that’s not right, you want to show the warts and the viewer will know it’s nothing that can’t be tweaked. (I’m not broadcasting or live streaming so my approach works for me.)


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostTue Jan 29, 2019 11:57 pm

I definitely am not turned off to these lens'! I should clarify, I am loving the lens character in real life shoots, but in some scenarios knowing how they acts in term of tone/luminance and color is important and saves time in post (especially when I'm not doing post!).

I'd say T-stops mattering to people depends on their set/use. For example, some people probably have no use for accurate focus marks either (as long as it hits infinity). For me, it's nice to know that t/2.8 is close to t/2.8 at all focal lengths, and if not, it's nice to know why and how to compensate (which was part of the reason for this test).

I think what I'm really hoping to get is feedback from other APO users. Currently, we have only two case studies (Joe from Reduser and I), but both show similar results. It would be great to have more samples/opinions and feedback, so we can determine if my tests accurately portray how these lens' generally perform. I was actually intending to exchange my lens for other copies, but from seeing Joe's charts and its similar results, I'm inclined to believe there would likely be no/little benefit. So, it would be really appreciated to just hear from others, and share knowledge.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Jan 30, 2019 2:43 am

Oh, I'm not turning down these lenses either. Actually, I'm a big fan of vintage glass and as I understand, the SLR Magic APOs have a similar characteristic. I own a large collection of old Minolta SLR lenses, which match very nicely in color. My only criticism was about T stops: if they are marked as such, they should match.

One question regarding this: do the APOs communicate their stops or at least their focal length to the camera? If so, it would be easier to care for the minor mismatch in Resolve.
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rick.lang

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Jan 30, 2019 2:59 am

Uli, unfortunately the APO are 100% manual. Maybe there will be a future version with electronics but nothing planned as far as I know.


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Jan 30, 2019 7:09 am

Rick, the Cooke mini s4i's have contacts to ID the lens, and f/stop being used, which worksmwithnrhe Ursa Mini Pro/Broadcast PL mount that incorporates the Cookei info system. Now all we need is for SLR Magic to add this to the APOs. One of my zooms has the Cookei system in it and communicates f/Stop and focal length info to the camera. A nice feature.
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rick.lang

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Jan 30, 2019 4:18 pm

Always room for improvement and that Cooke support would likely expand their market considerably. Maybe at the same time, they’ll fine tune their T-stop marks to tighten their tolerances. I may be wrong but their current tolerance may be exceeded a couple of times. Looks like I really need to do a comparison test when I can in February. Sorry I cannot commit to that as I need to take care of other things.


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Denny Smith

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Jan 30, 2019 5:32 pm

Yes , yes their is, but a set of Cooke mini s4i's is $38-45K! :roll:
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