HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

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Michael Moran

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HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostTue Feb 12, 2019 4:36 am

Hey guys, I haven't posted in so long. I just bought my first Broadcast Camera tonight. The plan is to buy 4 within the next few months. I film MMA fights and have the 4k 1/ME, Hyperdeck..... ect. Wanted the cameras and now need help with lenses. I'm clueless on the lens part. I'd love to pick up some used stuff if possible. But the options seem all over the place with price. Any help would be great. Would love to buy something cheap this week just to screw around with it and then buy something nice in a month or 2. Thanks
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rick.lang

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HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostTue Feb 12, 2019 6:22 am

What is your budget for B4 lenses now and in 2 months? What resolution will your deliverables usually be? 4K UHD lenses likely cost more than HD lenses although a good quality HD lens may suffice.

What distance to the action would you be at typically?

I’m assuming although the fight is well lit, you’ll still want something fast for crowd and other interior shots before and after a fight?

In 2016, I purchased a Fujinon HA20x7.8B M10 T2.4 Cine Zoom (B4 Mount) on eBay. The HD quality on a genuine Cine Zoom is quite good.

I think you may want something with a wider minimum focal length and faster aperture. That increases the cost and may decrease image quality somewhat. You may also want an ENG zoom with a servo zoom control; although I’m fine without it, your needs are more demanding.

Prices are all over the map for used gear so look around to see if you can find a good deal, but stay with lenses that are known to work well in HD resolution. Canon zooms tend to be less expensive and may be fine, but Fujinon does a very good job at making zooms. Price differences may reflect the condition of the zoom rather than the features. Something that seems a good deal may have problems due to age or abuse so read the description carefully. Good if they tell you when the Zoom was serviced.

Many old zooms were designed for NTSC/PAL television resolutions and may be softer when shooting HD.

For an expensive new lens, that gives you an idea what’s possible, this might be ideal:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/889008-REG

This easily gives you the longer reach you need, but it may not be wide enough at minimum 8mm:
https://www.fujifilmusa.com/products/op ... index.html

Or rent when you need it, this is likely wide enough and a longer reach:
https://bexel.com/products/fujinon-ua18 ... ngle-lens/

Now the challenge is finding something older that that satisfies your needs and budget!

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Last edited by rick.lang on Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostTue Feb 12, 2019 12:32 pm

I guess for MMA fights your on the edge of the ring. So that means be able to do wide shots. and also a bit of zoom if possible.

A very affordable lens, that does quite well even in 4K is the Canon YJ12x6.5 ;)
But 12 times zoom is not really much zoom if you want a closeup. So a 17x would be nice too. But most of the times those lenses are 17x8 so nice closeups but no real wide angle anymore.
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 1M/E 4K, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Hyperdeck Studio Mini, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Michael Moran

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Re: HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostTue Feb 12, 2019 7:18 pm

This year I’m focusing on HD. Maybe next year with 4K. As I’m buying 4 my budget is currently 1500-2000. In a few months more like 5-10k. Willing to buy used. I’m using Sony X-70 currently so anything is better than those. Before that had Canon XLH1. 2 cameras will be on the cage, 1 is a floor camera getting walkouts, intros and decisions and then a wide shot either static or on a jib. I filmed 60 shows last year. And I know the cameras were the weakest link in the chain last year.
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rick.lang

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HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostTue Feb 12, 2019 8:53 pm

That initial budget will get you a decent, old but respectable, HD zoom. If you think you can live without a servo, $ should be fine. I’m hoping you find something with a servo as that makes things easier.

If not: On my Cine Zoom, I use an old Chrosziel Fluid Zoom control which can be used to control focus or zoom. Like this designed for Fujinon:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/681058-REG

If you end up with a Canon Zoom, you’ll use a different model geared for Canon.

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Denny Smith

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Re: HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostTue Feb 12, 2019 10:19 pm

I managed to get that zoom control ($250 EBay) for my Angenieux B4 zoom, to set focus. Seems Angie and Fujion used the same gear pich. Canon and Cine Zoom gears used a different pitch.

The Angenieux HD B4 zoom is a HD lens, works well withnthe Broadcast Camera, and is available in a wide 5.3X__ Zoom range.

Watch out for electronic back focus control on some B4 HD lenses, as some of these do not work on the Broadcast camera. Also the zoom needs to be. B4, 2/3rds Zoom, with the camera cable to connect zoom lens control to the camera. There are some “bargain” B4 zooms on eBay, that are actually 1/2-inch B4 zooms, and these will not work.
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rick.lang

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Re: HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostWed Feb 13, 2019 12:58 am

Good points, Denny. Yes, that Angenieux is an excellent choice as well.


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Xtreemtec

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Re: HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostWed Feb 13, 2019 10:22 am

Well yes be sure you do not buy a 1/2"
For example on Canon the YJ lenses are 2/3" while the HJ lenses are 1/2"
Wideangles are often more expensive.
Also i'm pro Canon glass. To my feel it works better, and i have zoom remotes that fit all the time. Fujinon switched a few times in the past with there connectors. Be sure you get a compatible zoom remote for the lens you buy.

I own 2 of those YJ12x6.5 And they work like a charm on the Ursa Broadcast, nice medium wide angle and often can be found for a good price. They even do very well in 4K mode. :P

For example on Ebay::

Canon YJ20x8 $80 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-YJ20x8-5B4-KRS-Sx12-20x-YJ20x8-5b-8-5-170mm-1-8-TV-Camcorder-Lens/192815352718
Canon YJ13x6 + Extender $440 https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-3-wide-lens-Canon-YJ13x6B4-IRS/303036893169
Canon YJ12x6.5 + Extender $600 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-YJ12-x-6-5B4-IRS-A-SX12-YJ12x6-5B4-IRS-A-lens/143013626023
Canon J9x5.2 Wideangle $699 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-J9ax5-2B4-IRS-SX12-IF-2-3-Wide-Angle-Broadcast-Zoom-Lens-SKU-1017319/333001792750
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 1M/E 4K, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Hyperdeck Studio Mini, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
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Kim Janson

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Re: HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostWed Feb 13, 2019 12:10 pm

We have plenty of B4 lenses. These are old lenses of a big TV station. They have been used roughly, but kept well and front and rear elements look very clear, no scratches. Over all they appear to be in good working condition, but we have not fully tested them.

B4.jpg
B4.jpg (229.2 KiB) Viewed 997 times


B41.jpg
B41.jpg (451.81 KiB) Viewed 997 times


The Fujino Vgrip A14x8.5 BEVM-28 and Pegasus III A14x8.5BERM-28 we have plenty and do not need, the are 110 euro /125 USD each + fast shipping with DHL around 80 euro (depending where you are). (Prices VAT 0%, relevant if you are from EU) We will verify that they are mechanically and optically ok (as expected for this kind of lenses and in line with the other similar lenses we have) and the Zoom works. Especially the Vgrips need some cleaning, that we will not do.

Other lenses, if you are interested let me know and we will see fair price for them, but them we are not as eager to get rid off as they have full electrical iris, zoom and focus control that we need on our projects.

Ps. If you are from Finland or visiting here, you are most welcome to visit us and to test and pick up the lens you want for a good price. And happy to demonstrate some pretty special gimbal systems too. We are located 30 minutes from Helsinki airport. http://levitezer.com/styled/
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Howard Roll

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Re: HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostWed Feb 13, 2019 7:08 pm

We're only on the first iteration of 4K glass so HD glass is still very much in demand.

The standard zooms (7-8mm) are typically much sharper and have fewer artifacts than their wide angle brethren (4-5mm), or superzoom (1000mm) cousins.

General rule of thumb is that anything with a round lens hood is going to be ancient, pre aspheric elements, tube era.

IIRC the last iteration of Fuji glass before HD was the AT2, that's probably pretty good stuff for being SD.

Good Luck
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Kim Janson

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Re: HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostThu Feb 14, 2019 12:26 pm

Posted some test video here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86117&p=478606#p478606
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Michael Moran

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Re: HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostThu Feb 14, 2019 6:07 pm

OK. Next question. For my jib.... Do I need a Broadcast or can I toss up a Micro Studio Camera? Advantages? Disadvantages? What kind of lens am I looking for either way? Thanks
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Denny Smith

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Re: HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostThu Feb 14, 2019 8:33 pm

To use B4 lenses, the Micro Studio needs an optically corrected B4/MFT adapter costing from $500 to $1500, plus the adapter cable from BM ($35). For fixed shots with a preset lens, the Micro Studio is good with MFT native lenses. The Broadcast camera offers the and for a “manned” camera trying to follow the action and pick different shots. By the time you kit out a Micro Studio to use with a camera operator, you can buy the Broadcast camera. I have both, use the Micro Studio for a fixed shot (useually a wide shot) and the Broadcast for shooting the action, with a variety of shots on the zoom. The Broadcast also can record a backup file independent of the live switching signal being recorded.

For interviews either one would work well. Just depends on how you are going to use them.
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Michael Moran

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Re: HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostThu Feb 14, 2019 8:35 pm

Thanks Denny. 4 Broadcast cameras it is
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Denny Smith

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Re: HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostFri Feb 15, 2019 1:18 am

Good, as I said, the Micro Studio makes a good match to the Broadcast when you need a small fixed shot to mix in with the Broadcast camera shots. Doesn’t hurt to have one in the kit. Good luck.
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostFri Feb 15, 2019 8:04 am

For your other Broadcast cameras you might have a look at the new Blackmagic URSA Broadcast + Fujinon LA16x8BRM bundle:
https://www.videoexpert.eu/en/camera-bu ... rm-bundle/
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Denny Smith

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Re: HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostFri Feb 15, 2019 7:05 pm

Thanks for the heads up Robert, looks like the new Fujion Zoom is available on its own for €3,100 or there abouts.
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Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Valery Axenov

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Re: HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostSat Feb 16, 2019 12:36 am

Is it possible to compare in optical quality let say this fluorite Canon YJ20x8 zoom broadcast lens to Pro Cine zooms or fix lenses. Is it really soft lens not usable for film shooting? I do not understand what means this 4K lens? 4K is rather low quality lens refer to still photography and pro cine image quality. Cine 35mm film should be not worse than 6K. Does it mean that any Pro Cine zoom should be much better quality?

I use a lot of cine and pro still (Canon FD fluorite and aspherical) primes (incl Angenieux) and latest edition of Zeiss Vario Sonnar 10-100 T3 zoom. This Zeiss zoom is very good. I know wide open corner resolution factory test for my Zeiss VarioSonnar compare to modern Pro Cine S16 10-100 zoom lens that is in production. I think to test this Canon Fluorite broadcast lenses for documentary film shooting (because of it wider focal end) but afraid that it may be in another class than any Cine zoom.

This is tech.data for Zeiss. What about Canon fluorite broadcast lenses data from this point of view? May be somebody have an experience (in field shooting). Is it solid cine construction of zoom and focusing ring or it rather like modern autofocus lenses and should work only with server motors. What I have in my hands (broadcast zooms) looks rather cheap compare to Zeiss and even Angenieux 12-120.
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Denny Smith

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Re: HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostSat Feb 16, 2019 2:15 am

Broadcast ENG zooms are not as high a resolution as Cine zoom lenses, which were designed for film, like yiur Zeiss 10-100. Even in the Fujion lineup, their HD Cine 2/3ds B4 lenses are a much better build quality and higher resolution to the standard resolution ENG lenses designed for a 600-800 lpm resolution of SD sensors.

The new 4K versions seem to have much higher resolution, but are still behind film zooms. Build wise, they were fairly robust p, as they useually had a hard life in shooting commercial broadcast news events.
I have an Angenieux B4 HR B4 2/3rds Zoom, much higher quality build over the Caono and Fujion standard B4 zooms, optically, it it up there with the Cine HR S6 zooms.
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Denny Smith
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Valery Axenov

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Re: HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostSat Feb 16, 2019 10:21 am

Thanks. Denny. I understand it's a bit different class of lenses even new for special broadcast tasks. So for wider zoom focal range use I think it's still better to have a proper cine wide angle converter. Or use pro fix lenses. Cine Zeiss VarioSonnar holds good tech.data from wide open to f8.
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Denny Smith

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Re: HD B4 Lenses.... Just bought a Broadcast Camera

PostSat Feb 16, 2019 6:35 pm

I agree Valery, a good Cine W/A prime or zoom is going to be better for wide to normal shots on the small sensor. I have a Duclos mod Tokina 11-16 (glass cherry picked by Matt Duclos) which works very well.
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Denny Smith
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